State Capitol Building

[baralheia]

Spartan, I think it's more about priorities in a state that is facing larger and larger budget shortfalls for FY 2016 and beyond. The Capitol Building absolutely needs to be repaired to the best of our ability, but I don't think it's fiscally sound policy to tackle a new park and fancy archway and structured parking right now. These are definitely things I would like to see happen once our fiscal ship is righted, however.

I do also find it somewhat curious that state agencies like ODOT are prohibited by law from issuing bonds to borrow money for road projects but when it comes to the Capitol building they seemingly had no problem with borrowing money to make it happen. To be clear, I have no problem with borrowing money as long as it's done responsibly, but the actions of our state government do seem a bit hypocritical.

[LakeEffect]

I do also find it somewhat curious that state agencies like ODOT are prohibited by law from issuing bonds to borrow money for road projects but when it comes to the Capitol building they seemingly had no problem with borrowing money to make it happen. To be clear, I have no problem with borrowing money as long as it's done responsibly, but the actions of our state government do seem a bit hypocritical.

I wouldn't say "seemingly had no problem." I think they proposed changes for at least 2, if not 3 or more, legislative sessions before they actually voted on issuing bonds. They delayed quite a bit...

[baralheia]

I was not fully aware of that, actually. Thank you for the clarification!

[kevinpate]

Kevin - what do you mean? Are you against structured parking at the Capitol?

When the pies are busted ad the roof leaks and the walls are falling down, yes, I am against the notion of even talking about turning a parking lot into a park and building a freaking garage to replace the parking lot that gives way to flowers.
There have been millions sent in the last decade on prettifying the interior spaces and the dome for a seriously damaged building.

It's a bit like someone with more money than sense planning for a chin lift and liposuction when the patient is in need of liver and cornea transplants and bypass surgery. In other words, priorities.

[Spartan]

What if the bond issue paid for the structured parking, and private donors paid for the landscaping and the arch.

A parking garage isn't like some sort of crazy opulent pork amenity.

[kevinpate]

After they save the patient, then save for the tummy tuck. Sell more bonds and escalate the repairs timeline.
The garage to replace an existing p-lot is not needed before it is clear repairs for the the building's long term neglect has been fully resolved.

[Just the facts]

On the list of wasteful state spending - beautifying the Capitol complex is no where near the top. In my book spending money to have a top-notch Capitol wouldn't even be considered "wasteful".

[Jersey Boss]

I believe the state workers and citizens would be better served by investing the money proposed for cosmetic changes on extending the streetcar to the capitol complex.

I also believe the majority of state workers would feel they are better served by getting a raise in wages. The last raise was in the Henry administration. Streetcar, not so much.

[hoya]

I also believe the majority of state workers would feel they are better served by getting a raise in wages. The last raise was in the Henry administration. Streetcar, not so much.

Different branches of government. The state is not paying for the streetcar.

[Just the facts]

State facilities should be for the benefit of the public and act as a physical manifestation of the grandeur of the State. They should be hands down the nicest buildings in the state and far outshine any private development. The citizenry should gaze upon them in awe and be inspired to be better citizens.

[Jersey Boss]

Different branches of government. The state is not paying for the streetcar.

Yeah, I knew that. I was responding to the poster who wanted to have the capital improvement funds redirected to a streetcar line extension.

[shawnw]

This calendar year I've been to the following state capitols (as in walked around the grounds):
Oklahoma (obvs), Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona

It's interesting to see the differences, both in terms of "grandeur" and land use.

[Plutonic Panda]

On the list of wasteful state spending - beautifying the Capitol complex is no where near the top. In my book spending money to have a top-notch Capitol wouldn't even be considered "wasteful".

+1

[Rover]

After they save the patient, then save for the tummy tuck. Sell more bonds and escalate the repairs timeline.
The garage to replace an existing p-lot is not needed before it is clear repairs for the the building's long term neglect has been fully resolved.

I don't think they are saying to add the other elements INSTEAD OF the repairs, are they?

I also think they can do this based on bonding capacity and credit rating at a time of almost historically low interest rates. It isn't a matter of current state income, but long term investment wisdom. We can wait a year or two for $60-75 oil and wind up paying two or three times the interest making this reasonable expense now a huge expensed later, or we can lock in at low rates and save mucho denaro over the life. Our uber conservative legislators don't know how to use interest rates and debt to an advantage. They only look at this afternoon or tomorrow, but not the next 10 years. Their daddy left them the family farm and they are scared to plant a crop next year for fear of failure. They pucker when confronting any kind of forward thinking investments, so they do nothing.

[Jersey Boss]

How much money would be saved in building expenses as well as a plethora of savings elsewhere if Oklahoma would have a unicameral legislature.

[Rover]

How much money would be saved if we invested properly in education and helped people become tax payers instead of users? How much money would we save if we maintained our public assets properly? How much would we save if we didn't keep fighting legal battles on issues we are destined to lose? How much money would we save if we participated in legitimate federal programs for health and well being of our citizens? How much would we save if we allowed cities to actually govern themselves in an efficient way? How much money would we save.......

Our legislators are great moral pontificators and poor business people.

[Jersey Boss]

^^^^^^ Exactly on why we should eliminate a whole chamber of them.

[Spartan]

You can't fix stupid. Sadly we have a very unique brand of stupid. They should be proud. I would like to see this project financed and implemented by the AICC project team..

After they save the patient, then save for the tummy tuck. Sell more bonds and escalate the repairs timeline.
The garage to replace an existing p-lot is not needed before it is clear repairs for the the building's long term neglect has been fully resolved.

I'm not so sure I'm there with you. I can see the reasoning in wanting private donors to pay for beautification, but a parking garage is very reasonable. It is in fact very embarrassing that our Capitol has nothing but surface parking and it was in fact not meant to become surrounded the way it has. This land was originally a park that was sacrificed as the state grew. I don't understand equivocating a garage to some kind of fancy frill, and you really should cut the operating comparisons. The patient may need a new Walker and some help getting up at first. If you're doing very basic essential repairs, that should include a garage. Doesn't have to be a fancy garage, but it just needs to get done.

On the other hand I totally understand relegating the arch and beautification to private donors, which will probably slow that project way down, but seems reasonable.

[Dubya61]

This calendar year I've been to the following state capitols (as in walked around the grounds):
Oklahoma (obvs), Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona

It's interesting to see the differences, both in terms of "grandeur" and land use.

I've not been, Shawn. What's your analysis and comparison? and how would you say we compare (not that it matters, per se)?

[Just the facts]

Not Shawn, but we are on par with Arizona in terms of surrounding landuse and relative isolation.

If money was no object I would just build an entire new Capitol complex in Core 2 Shore and sell the current site to American Energy Partners so they can have a suburban corporate campus with plenty of parking.

[shawnw]

Pretty wide variety of differences. From a grandeur perspective we're better off than New Mexico for example. Arizona's grounds is similar to ours layout wise but the building style is much different. Colorado and Idaho... oh, I forgot about Tennesee and Arkansas earlier as others I've visited this calendar year... and Tennessee are all pretty urban, Idaho in particular sits on a surprisingly tiny city block, just down the street from downtown amenities (and thus probably my fave). Utah's sits on a pretty big hill with a nice view of the surroundings. New Mexico and Oregon have the strangest looking buildings (you wouldn't think they were capitols at first glance). Washington's seems really isolated (to me). Oregon's capitol city as a whole was probably the least impressive. Arkansas' is in the city but a considerable walk from the best parts of Little Rock. California and Texas didn't seem particularly notable, not that ours is.

[ethansisson]

The pipes leak, there's mold, the plaster is crumbling and oh yeah, chunks of the wall fall off from time to time.
The previous property management groups didn't do much in way of repairs, other than a snazzy cap and sculpture, so the old gal's worse than she's ever been.

But hey, let's add on a parking garage and some tunnels too.

Based on the articles above, the project is supposed to be prioritized so that the repairs and restoration are paid for before any major improvements. Whether that actually happens or not may be another story, but, as you've implied, it would be foolish to take what is already not enough money and use it to pay for anything that isn't essential. The repairs have to come first.

[Urbanized]

...Sadly we have a very unique brand of stupid...

There are no degrees of uniqueness. Something is either one of a kind or it is not. This OCD moment brought to you by my high school sophomore English teacher, Mr. Umansky.

[Bunty]

How much money would be saved if we invested properly in education and helped people become tax payers instead of users? How much money would we save if we maintained our public assets properly? How much would we save if we didn't keep fighting legal battles on issues we are destined to lose? How much money would we save if we participated in legitimate federal programs for health and well being of our citizens? How much would we save if we allowed cities to actually govern themselves in an efficient way? How much money would we save.......

Our legislators are great moral pontificators and poor business people.

Then why don't you spend a day at the Capitol going into every legislator's office asking them those questions. I bet they enjoy few people pestering them with questions or criticizing their governing skills.

[Spartan]

Then why don't you spend a day at the Capitol going into every legislator's office asking them those questions. I bet they enjoy few people pestering them with questions or criticizing their governing skills.

Wait. Someone is defending the governing skills of our State Legislature??

Can you please continue? I need more of this.