OKC Weather Coverage Wars 2013

[foodiefan]

I concur that the OKC coverage is pretty extreme. . .but, happened to be in Tulsa last Thursday when the line of storms blew through there (BA/Owasso tornado). I have been "advised" that they (Tulsa area) don't have the number/intensity of storms that we have and that they split at the river and don't hit Tulsa so they don't have the experienced coverage that we do. . .but seems to me a lot track right up I-44 to pretty close to Tulsa. Anyway. . .I was very surprised at the "elementary" coverage and conversations between the guys in the studio and the ones on the ground. ..and dumbfounded/amazed at the lack of detail in the radar coverage. One conversation (can't remember which channel) consisted of the guy in studio and the guy on the ground trying to decide whether or not they could see rotation in the cloud they were watching. . . I felt like I was watching a couple of elementary school kids. Our guys do overhype but I'd rather that than feeling I'm watching coverage by people who aren't quite sure what they are doing (kind of like when Gary's "toys" didn't work. . .only these guys had nowhere to backtrack). At least, our guys provide enough specific information that I can make up my mind on what I want to do.

[Questor]

[soonerguru]

Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.

Now we need our civic, state and national leadership to help us make better contingency plans for an F5 hitting a major American city other than, "Oh $hit, lots of people are going to die."

OKC is at far greater risk of the above happening than getting hit by Al Quaeda. Lets reexamine our public safety priorities.

[bchris02]

It is apocalyptic. It was the biggest tornado in history. OKC is a big city and I don't think they can hype days like Friday enough. People need to cancel events and leave work early and make plans for their safety.

I agree.

Unfortunately, one of the huge downsides of living in OKC is having to live through days like Friday. The media however needs to not hype unless there really is a serious threat. The storm in April comes to mind. It spawned a few tornadoes but was nothing major, yet the media hyped it up beforehand.

[jn1780]

Agree 100%. The media these days, local especially, have reached the point, where they get most everyone in almost an "apocolyptic" mindset before incoming weather events. Whether it be winter storms, severe thunder/tornadic producing storms, they(media) are responsible for the most part in people buying up food and goods way in advance of weather. And in many cases the weather never materializes. It is not uncommon now for groups and organizations to cancel events several days in advance of what "might" be coming. Somebody or somebodies need to step back and get this under control or it will just keep getting worse.

How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.

[Anonymous.]

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...


The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.

You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the second of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a Tornado Emergency (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.

The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.

[soonerguru]

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...


The NWS does not have a chips in the ratings pot - and they issued a PDS watch with extremely high severe probabilities in what was MODERATE risk zone.

You must understand that a PDS watch is the rarest of the rare. The one last Friday was the second of the year for the entire nation. For the second time in two weeks there was a Tornado Emergency (This is the most heightened warning that exists) issued for a major metropolitan area. Two EF-5 tornadoes tracked very near each other in just 11 days - one of them being the widest in recorded history - and the other resulting in massive $ damage.

The above circumstances are bordering on impossible and will likely never happen again in the next 5 lifetimes.

I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?

On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).

[SOONER8693]

How many organizations actually do this? I can't think of any at the top of my head. Several hours, sure, a lot of groups do this.

Then you just haven't been paying attention. I'll try to write those down for you next time. Sheesh.

[venture]

I respect your opinion, so I ask, "how can you be sure?" In the last month, Oklahoma has experienced 2 F5s, 2 F4s, and another F3 for good measure. There was an F5 about 5 miles west of Friday's storm that struck near Calumet a couple of years ago. Is it time to consider the fact that massive killer tornadoes ar becoming more common?

On another note, the tornado emergency warnings come too late for people in a major city to react to and are really just a term of art for NWS (and not particularly useful to the warned public).

I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records.

Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency."

People should already be acting when the warning comes out.

[soonerguru]

I posted this in the other thread. Who is to say that half of the EF4/F4s that we've had in history weren't in the EF5/F5 category based solely on winds? The thing to keep in mind, without the mobile radar from OU in Canadian County on Friday - it was going down as an EF3...maybe EF4. So I personally don't think this as a case of "massive tornadoes becoming more common"...I think it is a case of technology getting better and becoming more available where we can start getting more accurate records.

Tornado Emergencies can't be called any earlier because they are there to alert people, especially first responders, that this is a serious situation in a heavily populated area. No one should be "well it's just a regular ol' tornado warning so I'll crack open another cold one until they push out a tornado emergency."

People should already be acting when the warning comes out.

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

[OKCisOK4me]

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)? The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens. I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.

[soonerguru]

So based on your statement, when flying cars become a reality, they're going to sell like hot cakes in California, so people don't have to worry about being pancaked on a double stack freeway or driving off a bridge segment that has collapsed into a bay (I know I'm using 1989 as an example but dear lord, earthquakes happen more often than not out on the west coast and they're not running)? The Big One is gonna happen one day and thousands will die when that happens. I don't see anyone packing up and leaving.

Say wha? You drunk, bro?

My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.

[venture]

So you don't think F5 and F4 type events are becoming more common. While I wish I agreed, I don't. Folks are buying storm shelters like never before because they've come to the disturbing realization that May 3, 1999, was not a once in a lifetime event. On May 20, it became a once in a decade event. After the additional trauma of Friday's event, one need not be a meteorologist to understand these types of "rare" storms have become far too common.

I guess it just depends on what your perception is. First and foremost...there is no such thing, technically, as an F4 or F5 anymore. That scale is dead and has been since 2007.

Between 1953 and 2007 we had 50 F5 tornadoes (old scale and excluding 1 in Canada) over 54 years so just under one a year.

Between 2007 and 2013 with the new Enhanced Fujita scale we have had 10. Four of those came in the Super Outbreak of 2011. Of course the last 3 EF5s have been in Oklahoma...2 this year and the Calumet-El Reno-Guthrie EF5 of 2011. The May 31st El Reno EF5 of course sticks out as being a radar verified and not damage verified. So if we had more radar coverage, I would expect the number go up. However if it would go up too much, that would probably mean the EF Scale would need to be adjusted.

If we look at borderline F4/F5 tornadoes from the prior scale, that's another 20 tornadoes that would probably be considered EF5s with the new scale. So now we are looking at 80 tornadoes that could fall in the EF5 range over the last 63 years which of course works out to more than 1 a year...or more accurately 2 every 3-4 years give or take.

People that think large damaging tornadoes are once in a lifetime event are just naive. What we are seeing is people are becoming more aware of just how frequent these events are. You're own comment reflects that. Your post mentions that is a once a decade event since May 20th happened, but completely disregarding the 2 other violent tornadoes that were in Moore since 99.

[OKCisOK4me]

Say wha? You drunk, bro?

My comments had zero to do with what you're talking about here. Wow.

Nope not drunk at all. Quite sober to be honest.

Storm shelter sales in Oklahoma = hot cakes due to massive tornadoes.
Possibility of flying car sales in California = hot cakes due to not being on the ground for the Big One or any other significant earthquake of a higher magnitude

^^The above is an analogy for the commonality of the two items...neither of which are a "rarity" based on your post.

Get it?

[TaoMaas]

The tornado risk was already especially high and the main objective was to make sure people were off the roads after 4PM.

If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.

Unfortunately most people don't use common sense when dealing with the information being presented to them and freak out or use some jaded biased way of thinking that they consider accurate but isn't.

Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?

[venture]

If that was the objective, then the media gets a massive "fail" because, far from having folks off the road, they sent them back out onto them.

Agreed.

Hmmm...what kind of common sense is needed to know that the person with a degree in meteorology who is telling you to "drive south" is dead wrong and is leading you into the path of the storm?

Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman?

[BoulderSooner]

i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..

[venture]

i will also note that no one told anybody to drive into flowing water crossing the street ..

That is where the common sense part of my statement comes in. People lack it severely. Water covering the road, don't go in. It is take simple. Of course people feel that they are superior, or it isn't deep, or whatever else false notion and then their car stalls out or gets taken away...well Darwin is a punk.

[TaoMaas]

Change the channel to someone who is more reputable or person just listen to the folks at NWS Norman?

I did. And even though I chose to leave my house and drive 90 degrees away from the storm path towards Edmond (and was out of range in about 6 miles) , my co-worker was listening to another channel and fled to Shawnee...then Seminole...then Ada...to try and escape the path.

[TaoMaas]

I think there is a lot of uninformed people in this thread confusing "hype" with "forecast"...

"Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance. "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event. "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

[Anonymous.]

"Forecast" is knowing the odds are great of a major severe weather episode and making people aware of it in advance. "Forecast" is, on the day of the event, covering up at least one commercial in every break to remind people of the extreme possibility of severe weather and to remind them to keep an eye on things, up to the point of the actual weather event. "Hype" is blowing out all programming and telling folks, "Here it comes...it's not here yet....wait for it....wait for it...OMG! THERE IT IS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

The forecast called for an extreme situation building. Thus the "hype" was not hype, but it was simply the reality of what the conditions presented at the time. Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?

Not everyone is watching television all the time. Some people have no clue until they see ominous clouds in the distance and then check television. And what if they saw regular programming? Maybe they would think there was no big deal.

Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.

[ultimatesooner]

I was at home hunkered down, flipping between 4, 5 and 9, seeing if I needed to go to the nearby shelter (I didn't). The worst was when KWTV broadcast their helicopter shot from south of downtown looking north, and framed in the shot were the "parking lots" on Santa Fe, Shields and I-35, with the storm bearing down on them from the west. There were thousands of people there, fully-exposed sitting ducks, waiting for nature to have its way with them. Thank God that the storm didn't stay on the ground or there could easily be hundreds dead and thousands injured.

Those weren't people still driving home from work seeking the shelter of their homes. Those were people who left the safety of their homes because Mike Morgan told them to. And when the tornado didn't get them, they were left exposed to the flood waters, power lines, open manholes and blocked roads. A hundred panicked people stormed into a convenience store, breaking the glass front door.

Is this acceptable - scaring unprepared, unequipped people out into a storm at night?

Great thing you have checked w/ all of these people to be so sure that they were only out there because all them were watching KFOR

[TaoMaas]

Would you rather them cut in from regular programming during explosive supercell development west of the metro?

YES! When it's not even raining, there's no good reason to amp people up even though the conditions are ripe. Keep them informed and updated, but don't cry "fire" until a fire really breaks out.

Everyone in Oklahoma knows there is potential for serious business when the local media move to wall-to-wall coverage.

Oh, there's more rules than that. I can flip on a station and tell you within 5 seconds if it's serious or not simply by seeing if it's the main met or the morning guy doing the cut-in. I'm not saying Friday wasn't serious. We know after the fact that it was. But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and we did NOT know that. We only knew the potential was there. This is why Oklahomans become desensitized to weather warnings. The more we ramp things up, the harder it is to distinguish when to worry and when not to. Frankly, I kinda blame KOCO for a bunch of this. It's been apparent for some time that they're doing everything they can to try and establish themselves as the weather authority in the metro...and so they go into wall-to-wall a little quicker and continue stick with it when 4 & 9 have gone back to programming. That was happening even before Rick Mitchell left.

Edited to add: My comment about KOCO is based upon the knowledge that all the stations watch each other and keep tabs on how often and how long the other stations are cutting in. It shouldn't be this way, but part of the decision making in when to cut in and when to go wall to wall is based upon what the other stations are doing.

[Anonymous.]

People do live outside of OKC... And I know it is hard to imagine, but some of these people have TV and are able to view the same local channels!

[SoonerDave]

We know after the fact that it was. But we were also saying several days ahead of times that it was going to be as bad as May 20th or worse and we did NOT know that. We only knew the potential was there.

I'm as anti-hype as they come, but I don't get this statement. As the days progressed, I saw nothing from any respectable meteorologist that didn't suggest things were looking worse as the forecast evolved. We absolutely knew that the meteorological ingredients were prime for a mulit-storm, multi-tornado event.

I'm not sure what kind of a hair-split you're wanting by saying "we only knew the potential was there." Mets knew that when the storms started, they'd go up in minutes, probably rotating, and going severe almost all at the same time. And that's exactly what they did. Are you suggesting there should be no coverage until the first tornado is physically on the ground doing damage? Or when the first funnel is sighted? Or when the first hook signature on radar is detected? When? What line do you want to have drawn over what's acceptable and what isn't?

Mind you, I say and ask this as someone who LOATHES the ratings-driven hype nonsense in this market by some. But I just can't get my head around what you were expecting in terms of TV coverage for last Friday other than what unfolded. You say keep people "informed and updated," but what do you mean by that? Specifically? Its easy to criticize from a distance in broad strokes, but the hard part is translating those broad strokes into hard, specific recommendations.

Cumulus fields were going up in the OKC area all over town Friday afternoon, even after some of the storms in the NE part of the state had started up. Heck, I thought some were building virtually along 89th. They can't pinpoint startups that closely, so a best-level of granularity is about all they can do. What are you wanting? And I mean that not sarcastically, but honestly. What do you really want?