OKC Weather Coverage Wars 2013

[venture]

I was fine when Morgan said FLEE on the 20th. We KNEW that this was a wedge tornado barreling toward Moore that was absolutely going to obliterate everything in its path. Nothing yesterday indicated that would be the case. When he said at 1:45ish "Interior Bathroom or Closet is not going to do it" he had no evidence that this was even close to an EF4. On the 20th, people were calling it to be about an EF4 all the way back in Newcastle.

We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that.

The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0. Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.

[Teo9969]

Sometimes I wonder if we need a better way to shut down interstates when severe weather is crossing. Now I am thrilled that ODOT finally pulled their heads out and posted a weather alert on the large signs. However, I still think they need to be posting things like "Tornado Watch Until 12AM" or "Tornado Warning Oklahoma County"...something to just get in the drivers faces of stay alert or even don't proceed and find shelter. Heck maybe the digital billboards should show live radar or something to. Who knows.

Just close down the highways. Barricades at the following and blockades at all on-ramps between the two:

I-40W @about Sooner Road
I-40E @ Council
I-35S/44W @ Wilshire
I-35N @ Lindsey
I-44E @ SW 74th

If someone can make a good case, I'd be open for leaving the I-44 NE and I-40 E on-ramps or even entire highways open and only barricading when we know a storm is out in front of the direction people are traveling...but I don't think that case can REALLY be made when tornadoes can pop up from behind while another one is out in front.

Develop the plan by August/September and PSA the plan to the public over the next 6 months so that in 2014 going forward, OKC people know how it operates.

[venture]

But the direction of that storm is not really even the point. Even if it was moving NE it's not common practice for the TV guys to "usually" send people out on to the highways and cause bumper-to-bumper gridlock in any circumstances. I think that Mike Morgan will have to answer to this in a public fashion.

Twitter is really blowing him up it appears. Another video shared...

[Teo9969]

We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that.

The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0. Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.

I see what you're saying, but there was, to me, a qualitative difference between the severity of the tornadoes when they were out west, enough so that we could tell 5/20 was going to level everything it's path. Not that it had the *potential* for that, but that it was actually going to obliterate. Maybe I'm making that difference up in my head? I watched News 9 yesterday as opposed to when I watched News 4 yesterday, so that could be the difference.

[venture]

Out of the 9 fatalities last night, 7 of them involved people their cars.

[bchris02]

We just need to get away from this calling out EF scale numbers unless they are doing damage assessments as they go - which they typically aren't. Commenting on violent surface rotation or significant/substantial structural damage should be more than enough. Yesterday's dynamics were very good for significant/violent tornadoes - so I'm not sure where you are getting that it was never indicated to be the case? The fact that they did the 2nd PDS watch of the year yesterday seemed to highlight that.

The tornado in Moore last night was surveyed with a width of 500 yards...or a quarter mile wide. It's rating? EF0. Large tornadoes can appear to be violent, but not always the case. Which is why we need to get away from calling our EF scales unless they are able to actually verify the damage being done.

The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado. With that in mind, I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas. If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City. It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

[zookeeper]

The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado. With that in mind, I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas. If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City. It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

With thousands of people stuck in their cars on thoroughfares, hiways, Interstates. By the way, plenty, thousands, of people survived May 20th who weren't underground.

[venture]

The multi-vortex tornado that touched down in El Reno looked like it was going to become a repeat of the Moore tornado. With that in mind, I can understand the 'get below ground' pleas and even the 'get out of the way' pleas. If it would have not lifted and/or kept strengthening, we would have had the Moore situation, but instead of destroying a few square miles, it would have went right into the heart of the most densely populated areas of Oklahoma City. It would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

You need to stop watching disaster movies. LOL The tornadoes don't growl or go after people. When you see a large tornado it should always be followed by "get below ground or into a safe room". However, as Zoo points out, over a thousand homes were completely destroyed in the path of the May 20th EF5. Not everyone was below ground and not everyone left...hundreds if not thousands survived following proper tornado precautions.

The "Get out of the way" calls should be left for those ALREADY on the roads...not for people to leave a safe structure and go create a traffic jam to people even more at risk.

[Anonymous.]

I feel bad for Mike Morgan/KFOR at this point. It is a really bad case of captain hindsights.

[zookeeper]

Ok, give me a minute here. Even in this now infamous Mike Morgan video, there is another thing he did that is quite questionable.

Telling people to pick up the phone or knock on your neighbors door if they have a storm shelter is not a good idea. We all need to personally be held responsible to have a plan for ourselves and our immediate family long before a tornado is ten minutes away. To put it bluntly, and meaning no disrespect, it places a tremendous burden on those who DO have shelters as to what to say. If having done the responsible thing and you have a shelter that is for 4-6, and all the neighbors know it, what do you do when they are knocking on your door one after another? At some point, and at a very emotional time, you have to make choices and say yes or no to him or her or the other. A small shelter for you and your family does not equal a community shelter. It's really unfair to these people for Mike Morgan to be on the air telling people to call your neighbors or knock on their doors. You have a shelter that maxes at 6 and all of the sudden you have 20 (or more) following the TV guys advice and it just puts those with personal shelters in an extremely uncomfortable position. They already have that problem without the TV meteorologists jumping in to add gas to the fire. Anybody with shelters know it can be a very stressful thing to have to make these judgement calls. It sometimes means losing jilted neighbors forever. The reality is the personal home shelter can only hold so many people.

[zookeeper]

I feel bad for Mike Morgan/KFOR at this point. It is a really bad case of captain hindsights.

I can see and understand that to a point. But to me, it's more a bad case of poor judgement, saying something that you know violates proper procedure, and there's nothing wrong with holding that person accountable. I feel bad in the sense that they know they contributed to something that was just chaotic and deadly, but otherwise they learned a lesson and the "captain hindsights" are just holding them accountable, as they should. This was a monumental miscalculation and lack of judgement.

[Anonymous.]

I am not sure if the Gary England account on twitter is forreal or not, but he is openly calling out Mike Morgan.

Does anyone know where the 7 vehicle deaths were? Location wise? I know the Mother/Child combo out in El Reno.


Per media sources it looks like most of the injuries (and I assume deaths) were along I-40 West heading towards Yukon.

This would mean the people are sitting there since they closed I-40 in Yukon. Mike Morgan told people to drive south and only mentioned specifically for people to go south on I-44. I would like to see how many deaths were on I-44 from the tornado.


Need more evidence before you can bring out pitchforks, so if anyone knows - please post.


EDIT: After further research - it appears several of the deaths reported are actually from flooding incidents in rural areas.

[zookeeper]

I am not sure if the Gary England account on twitter is forreal or not, but he is openly calling out Mike Morgan.

Does anyone know where the 7 vehicle deaths were? Location wise? I know the Mother/Child combo out in El Reno.


Per media sources it looks like most of the injuries (and assuredly deaths) were along I-40 West heading towards Yukon.

This would mean the people sitting there since they closed I-40 in Yukon. Mike Morgan told people to drive south and only mentioned specifically for people to go south on I-44. I would like to see how many deaths were on I-44 from the tornado.


Need more evidence before you can bring out pitchforks, so if anyone knows - please post.

Anon, I respect your posting and have a lot of admiration, but I don't think the deaths that happened have to literally be tied to Mike Morgan's poor advice. In a way, as bad and sad as it was it could have been a lot worse had a strong tornado hit I-35, I-44, southbound due to his telling people to head south. I think the point is that he put people into their cars 10 minutes before a tornado and sent them on to the main streets and freeways into a giant parking lot like gridlock. In my opinion, and I stress that, the pitchforks should be out despite whether the people who actually died were killed due to his advice. He put tons of folks on to the streets at the absolutely worst time in the middle of a major American city. What other result could you expect but gridlock and helplessness?

[Anonymous.]

You see, we share the same opinion that being on the road is bad. And encouraging it is worse.


Everyone blasting Morgan and KFOR is uncalled for is all. There is no evidence to back it.


Instead this should be about "NEVER GET IN YOUR CAR TO RUN FROM A TORNADO" and not "MIKE MORGAN KILLED 9 PEOPLE AND KFOR SHOULD GO OFF THE AIR FOREVER, IT'S HIS FAULT!"


If you think that is exaggerating, look @ social media right now. Mike Morgan is getting roasted.

[bluedogok]

From MSNBC, Mayor Cornett obviously didn't know that Mike Morgan pleaded with viewers to "go southbound," he was actually on last night along with OEMA people who said they didn't know why people decided to try to flee.

“I was surprised by that, it came through the metro area six thirty, seven o’clock time frame,” Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said on MSNBC, meaning that people should not have been driving home from work.

“I’m wondering if the tornadoes from a couple of weeks ago didn’t frighten people so badly that this time they were taking no chances and trying to evade it by car,” Cornett said. “That’s a very unwise thing to do because it's the absolute worst place you can be during a tornado.”

Not everyone leaves work precisely at 5:00 or even works 8:00-5:00, many times I have left the office between 6:30 and 9:00PM or even later.

Ok, give me a minute here. Even in this now infamous Mike Morgan video, there is another thing he did that is quite questionable.

Telling people to pick up the phone or knock on your neighbors door if they have a storm shelter is not a good idea. We all need to personally be held responsible to have a plan for ourselves and our immediate family long before a tornado is ten minutes away. To put it bluntly, and meaning no disrespect, it places a tremendous burden on those who DO have shelters as to what to say. If having done the responsible thing and you have a shelter that is for 4-6, and all the neighbors know it, what do you do when they are knocking on your door one after another? At some point, and at a very emotional time, you have to make choices and say yes or no to him or her or the other. A small shelter for you and your family does not equal a community shelter. It's really unfair to these people for Mike Morgan to be on the air telling people to call your neighbors or knock on their doors. You have a shelter that maxes at 6 and all of the sudden you have 20 (or more) following the TV guys advice and it just puts those with personal shelters in an extremely uncomfortable position. They already have that problem without the TV meteorologists jumping in to add gas to the fire. Anybody with shelters know it can be a very stressful thing to have to make these judgement calls. It sometimes means losing jilted neighbors forever. The reality is the personal home shelter can only hold so many people.

My sister lives in Bethany and went to my cousin's house in Mustang because he has a shelter but he also had an open invite and she called to make sure he was there before. She has a rental house so she can't put a shelter in. I do agree that you just don't wander up to a neighbor you do not know and knock on the door hoping to get into one.


The fatality out on I-40 by El Reno/Union City is a bit more easy to understand than one in OKC or Moore, they might have just been on the highway not knowing what was dropping down on top of them. Many people also tend to think of the interstates as the only way to get around town, after living in Dallas before their highway expansions the surface streets were a much faster way of getting around there.

[OKCTalker]

There was an excellent segment on this evening's "All Things Considered" program on KGOU & KOSU (available at NPR.org). The reporter was Wade Goodwyn, and he differentiated between sheltering in place and making a run for it. The concensus was its best to get in your car and run away from the storm's path, but only if you have a clear path and adequate time. Otherwise, shelter in place. Last night's virtual citywide gridlock was the worst possible scenario.

Interviewed was Rick Smith, Warning Coordination Specialist at the National Weather Service. He said that a better tornado safety precaution guideline needs to be addressed, but there is no single best plan when tornadoes are coming.

[JamesFiend]

Not everyone leaves work precisely at 5:00 or even works 8:00-5:00, many times I have left the office between 6:30 and 9:00PM or even later.

This. I'm glad somebody else mentioned it because I was starting to feel like a terrible person for having to be out on the roads trying to get home. My wife and I don't get off until 6pm and share one car. Everyone acting like the city should've been on lock down by 4pm needs to realize that some employers simply aren't down to close up shop because something may or may not happen.

Was also kind of annoyed by the reporter on 9, Steve Shaw I think, who after the event was standing in the street making overly sarcastic observations about people trying to cross flooded streets and then getting in their face to try and sass them if they made it through. If it's that bad, how about helping out and trying to stop them before hand?

[okcboomer]

Could this be the beginning of the end for Mike?

[Spartan]

I remember one year that I think Mike Morgan's penchant for drama took aim at the Big 12 bball tourney at the Ford Center one year, when he was predicting (hoping for?) a Siberian barrage that ended up being 2 inches. It killed the tourney and Bricktown's traffic.

[yukong]

Well, I must be in the minority...at the age of 53, I never in my life have been a hunker down and shelter in place kind of guy. As a young kid, living at 24th and Vila, and even back in the 60s and 70s, we always loaded up and drove the opposite direction from the anticipated path. My dad was always of the opinion that if he could see the storm he could avoid it. I guess that goes back to the days we didn't have wall to wall coverage with spotters and live streaming video from spotters. I guess that is ingrained in me as that is how I feel. We leave in Surrey Hills. We don't have a shelter. When they initially were calling out the storm, one of its potential paths was toward Surrey. We drove into town and parked in a parking garage at Baptist in the partially underground portion. There were literally 1000s of people there an in the hospital. I will always vote to get out before I will hunker down. Stupid maybe, but that is how I feel. We are considering a shelter, but cannot decide what kind to get. Not crazy about the in-floor one in the garage as I don't want to cut my slab. So, we are trying to decide on a safe room or an outside cellar. But ever since the Piedmont tornado 2 years ago where the family hunkered down in the center bath tub and the storm sucked out the 2 kids...well, I'm not a hunker down guy. I prefer the flee and avoid. I for one do not fault Mike Morgasm.

Now to change to something more interesting...have any of you seen the video where Emily Sutton drives into a ditch and Kevin Josefy curses her? Great video. She should not be driving. If they want her to chase...they need to give her someone that can drive and talk at the same time. I love Emily...but she has not been very stellar in her chasing. Terrifying drive through tornado ends in car landing in ditch - YouTube

[SoonerDave]

There was an excellent segment on this evening's "All Things Considered" program on KGOU & KOSU (available at NPR.org). The reporter was Wade Goodwyn, and he differentiated between sheltering in place and making a run for it. The concensus was its best to get in your car and run away from the storm's path, but only if you have a clear path and adequate time. Otherwise, shelter in place. Last night's virtual citywide gridlock was the worst possible scenario.

Interviewed was Rick Smith, Warning Coordination Specialist at the National Weather Service. He said that a better tornado safety precaution guideline needs to be addressed, but there is no single best plan when tornadoes are coming.

At last, sanity prevails. I was engaged in a pseudo Twitter war (well, discussion) with someone who was suggesting that the NWS and broadcast media should develop standardized, approved warning terms and messages, and the nightmare I heard in my head was this huge bureaucracy churning pointlessly to define the "right" weather warning terms, forcing broadcasters to adopt a federally-standardized playbook of terminology. I could just see local forecasters poring through some "approved book of terms" to say the right thing all while people are in harm's way.

I have my own personal distaste for Mike Morgan, primarily because he is exactly the kind of fear merchant that gives good weather forecasters a bad name, and he's been that way for most of his tenure in this market. Others have noted the same thing. But what I will say in his defense in this particular instance is that he is not addressing one, ten, or a hundred people when he goes wall-to-wall; he's addressing several hundred thousand people. Some of those are minutes, even seconds away from a tornado. Telling them to get in a car is foolish. Others are an hour away. Telling them to get in a car is....very iffy, but not unilaterally subject to condemnation.

I did not hear the specific warning or admonition to get out that is getting all the attention, so I can't comment on it directly, but in the broader context of Morgan's career as a hype machine, that he did this is not surprising. But what he's done in that broader career to me is every bit if not more offensive to the notion of weather warnings as what happened last night. Put a different way, do we honestly think there wouldn't have been the same gridlock last night had he not issued his warning? People are going to evade a catastrophe if they think that is their only option, Mike Morgan notwithstanding.

[Jim Kyle]

Mike Morgan is getting roasted.

Deservedly so, in my opinion. I suspect that Stan Lee invented the line "With great power goes great responsibility" but whoever said it first, it's true -- and Mike failed that responsibility. Consequently his power should be removed.

As for the nine deaths, the best information I've seen is that the seven in vehicles were all from the initial incident on I40 way west of El Reno, when out-of-state drivers who possibly had no knowledge at all of the situation unknowingly drove right into a rain-wrapped EF3. Unfortunate as that was, it's simply the luck of the draw.

The gridlock after Mike's irresponsible plea is a completely different situation.

[kevinpate]

Maybe puttin Morgan and Payne together in a chaser rig, with Sutton driving, could resolve several issues at once?

[bluedogok]

I remember one year that I think Mike Morgan's penchant for drama took aim at the Big 12 bball tourney at the Ford Center one year, when he was predicting (hoping for?) a Siberian barrage that ended up being 2 inches. It killed the tourney and Bricktown's traffic.

The weather people catch all kinds of crap about the snow storms that blow through here, someone in Westminster will gripe if they only got 2" of snow if a foot was forecast, well we got 14" out here in Aurora so somewhere in this large city the report was pretty danged close. It seems people gripe for the sake of griping and don't understand what predictions really mean. If they underpredict (which happened a couple of times this year) they get crap, the same thing if they overpredict, people seem to think a forecast is an exact science when it is far from that, it is at best a well educated guess.

[SOONER8693]

Could this be the beginning of the end for Mike?

Many of the people I know, refer to him as Mike Morgasm and consider him a "fear" monger. Everything with him is or is going to be the biggest, fastest, hottest, coldest, worst, wettest, dryest, you get the point. I wish Ch 4 would go another direction, as it appears it is already rubbing off on Emily Sutton. It's all about grabbing and holding the audience with that bunch at 4.