Future highway or interstate expansion?

[betts]

The tornado has caused a lot of congestion on I-35 and is delaying the response times according to officials.
A new I-35 by pass would be a great help right now.

I think its a bit of an overreaction to build something that you might potentially need once every 2 to 5 years. What we need is people not trying to outrun storms en masse.

[ou48A]

I think its a bit of an overreaction to build something that you might potentially need once every 2 to 5 years. What we need is people not trying to outrun storms en masse.

It’s not an overreaction because it’s basically already needed or soon will be needed on an everyday basses.

[soonerliberal]

It’s not an overreaction because it’s basically already needed or soon will be needed on an everyday basses.

Or people could stay in safer places like their homes or work rather than trying to outrun an unpredictable storm?

[ou48A]

Or people could stay in safer places like their homes or work rather than trying to outrun an unpredictable storm?

Doing nothing doesn’t help an everyday situation that’s increasingly congested, everyday.

[venture]

Doing nothing doesn’t help an everyday situation that’s increasingly congested, everyday.

Could argue that they need to launch the commuter rail from Norman to Downtown today then. BNSF, whom I believe owns the line that Amtrak uses, does commuter rail in Chicago so they could easily move in and offer it here I would think. Though I'm not sure how many would use it today without a strong mass transit system in place.

[Just the facts]

Who would pay for this new freeway?

[mkjeeves]

A couple of random thoughts that occurred to me based on comments in this and other threads. People who drive pay state and federal fuel taxes. People who walk on sidewalks and bike paths don't pay bike path use taxes and sidewalk use taxes. Maybe we should tax tennis shoes and bike tires or build toll sidewalks and toll bikepaths to finance them so the people who don't use them aren't paying for them.

That said, I wish we had sidewalks up and down Council road. There is a steady stream of people and well worn paths in the grass and dirt from Reno north to Bethany. I watch them slogging through that grass and sometimes mud on a daily basis, far more than the foot traffic I see on Broadway for instance, a place where I have some occasional but repeat business. But people walk Council anyway so there's that. (I've done it myself but it's not part of my regular routine.)

[ou48A]

Could argue that they need to launch the commuter rail from Norman to Downtown today then. BNSF, whom I believe owns the line that Amtrak uses, does commuter rail in Chicago so they could easily move in and offer it here I would think. Though I'm not sure how many would use it today without a strong mass transit system in place.

I support the idea of OKC metro commuter rail ASAP and a better mass transit system but they have their limits.
As our area grows, more metro area highways are needed. One of the worst causes of wasted fuel and pollution come from vehicles that are idling, stopping, and staring in congestion. The congestion also cuts into our areas prosperity. As much as we can stay ahead of the congestion problem, it will help our quality of life.

[ou48A]

A couple of random thoughts that occurred to me based on comments in this and other threads. People who drive pay state and federal fuel taxes. People who walk on sidewalks and bike paths don't pay bike path use taxes and sidewalk use taxes. Maybe we should tax tennis shoes and bike tires or build toll sidewalks and toll bikepaths to finance them so the people who don't use them aren't paying for them.

Prepare to be blasted for your logical thoughts

[mkjeeves]

The parking meter was invented here. Maybe we could make them triple use, plug them if you park, walk or bike past one.

[Snowman]

The parking meter was invented here. Maybe we could make them triple use, plug them if you park, walk or bike past one.

Your not actually using them if you walk or bike past them

[mkjeeves]

No. Triple use. With motion detectors and cameras. Three coin slots. Or sell them a Bikepass or a Pedpass that dings their credit card each time they walk by or bike past one. Problem solved. We can afford all the sidewalks and bike paths that the people who use them want to pay for.

[Just the facts]

I'll be glad to pay a shoe and bicycle tire tax when the gasoline tax fully funds all things automobile related.

[hoya]

I support the idea of OKC metro commuter rail ASAP and a better mass transit system but they have their limits.
As our area grows, more metro area highways are needed. One of the worst causes of wasted fuel and pollution come from vehicles that are idling, stopping, and staring in congestion. The congestion also cuts into our areas prosperity. As much as we can stay ahead of the congestion problem, it will help our quality of life.

We don't have a traffic congestion problem. At all. We don't need to build freeways so you can evacuate in 30 minutes or less in case the aliens from Independence Day attack. That's what you're pushing for.

[Plutonic Panda]

It’s not an overreaction because it’s basically already needed or soon will be needed on an everyday basses.

I agree or they should just widen I-35 and build a light-rail joint project with as well.

[hoya]

No. Triple use. With motion detectors and cameras. Three coin slots. Or sell them a Bikepass or a Pedpass that dings their credit card each time they walk by or bike past one. Problem solved. We can afford all the sidewalks and bike paths that the people who use them want to pay for.

I'd happily pay a sidewalk tax that charges me for maintenance based on how much I use them. Of course, it's gonna be about 2 cents a year, given how little damage a person walking on concrete causes.

[hoya]

It’s not an overreaction because it’s basically already needed or soon will be needed on an everyday basses.

Everyday basses?



?

[ou48A]

We don't have a traffic congestion problem. At all. We don't need to build freeways so you can evacuate in 30 minutes or less in case the aliens from Independence Day attack. That's what you're pushing for.

We DO have traffic congestion problems in the Norman area and on I-35 everday... it’s going to get a lot worse if we do nothing.
Doing nothing is unacceptable.

[mkjeeves]

I'll be glad to pay a shoe and bicycle tire tax when the gasoline tax fully funds all things automobile related.

Ah...you're not against subsidy except when it doesn't agree with your goals, then it's fine. Got it.

[hoya]

We DO have traffic congestion problems in the Norman area and on I-35 everday... it’s going to get a lot worse if we do nothing.
Doing nothing is unacceptable.

I drive I-35 all the time during rush hour. No congestion problems.

[AP]

I don't know why you guys continue to argue with these trolls. They are never going to agree and will continue to propose things that aren't logical.

[RadicalModerate]

Everyday basses?



?

Intermission:



of course, the logical basis (biases?) of the argument, regarding "basses" could have been a typo . . .



(carry on . . . but how about no more troll roads . . . OK? No. Seriously. =)

[mkjeeves]

What goals are you talking about? Streets are invention of necessity. It is important that people be able to get from one property to another for the purpose of conducting business, buying goods and services, and utilizing public amenities. Before the invention of the car, we didn't need to have this funding discussion. People who own cars for some reason think that those who don't own cars, deserve the road less. Like traveling 3mph is less worthy of the space. The funding challenge, the one you want to pretend you care about for the sake of this petty discussion, was never an issue before people chose to take up about 20 sq ft. of space and add 1800lbs to their method.

So starting at zero is allowing anyone to get where they need to go with exactly what everyone else has -- feet. Anything beyond that, once it penalizes that function, should be considered for 'impact' fees. No different than blocking the road to move a house. A vehicle demands a disproportionate amount of space and design than the natural, original space needed to provide the free exercise of citizens within a city.

Try again.

You have certainly hit on the point, entitlement. Some people think they are entitled to have the government provide them with paved sidewalks and bike paths at some person's expense. (Where OKC can, they put that entirely on the developer, or redeveloper in the case of properties redeveloped without existing sidewalks. My comment was in part due to someone upthread who compared the government building a new road to the government building new sidewalks with the same money, arguing for the latter instead of the former.)

But I see some of this is covered upthread anyway.

Good point, but we still need the money so maybe we end up with both. I did see where Seattle was proposing a $25 fee when you buy a bike to support the cost of bicycle related infrastructure.

I noticed you said "feet". Are you on the fence on paved bike paths or are you entitled to have those free too?

[betts]

I've noticed some people feel entitled to have the government build them roads and highways as well.

[mkjeeves]

I said that.(Or agreed) Double standard for some.