OKC vs Peer Cities

[Bellaboo]

Tulsa has more g'mnt workers than you think, they actually have a division of the Oklahoma State Tax Commission, which is involved in Bankruptcies and legal.

They also are the state HQ for the U.S. Corps of Engineers....many G'mnt workers based there.

[Mississippi Blues]

Something I've somewhat observed about the Tulsans that pronounce Tulsa as supreme or soon-to-be-supreme-again is that they're not really aware of all that's going on in OKC and just how fast everything is changing here. I love Tulsa and what it has to offer, but it's quickly fading in the review mirror.

[progressiveboy]

OKC is very under-appreciated in this area:

National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum
Oklahoma History Center
Oklahoma City Museum of Art
Science Museum Oklahoma
Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum
Oklahoma Heritage Museum
Fred Jones Museum of Art (OU)
Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History (OU)

Plus, a whole host of others:
National Softball Hall of Fame
45th Infantry Division
American Banjo Museum
Harn Homestead
Oklahoma Railway Museum
Overholser Mansion
Oklahoma Contemporary

Coming soon:
American Indian Museum & Cultural Center


I know Tulsa has the Philbrook & Gilcrease, but Oklahoma City has plenty to offer in terms of museums.

Right now, the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum and Fred Jones both have world class collections. The American Indian Museum will also be world class when complete.


And I would add that the OKC Zoo is by far the biggest attraction in the state, although it's in a slightly different category. It's a bigger asset and far more people make use of it than any museum.

Speaking of Oklahoma Contemporary, they will be relocating from the fairgrounds into a new facility once fundraising is completed which will add more space and allow for more Art acquisitions! OKC Zoo has always been rated in the top 10 zoological parks in the country! Much better than the Tulsa Zoo in my opinion. Heck, even the OKC zoo is far superior to the Dallas Zoo!

[Bellaboo]

The 45th Infantry Museum on 36th and MLK is one of the better smaller museums you'll find - If you've ever heard of Adolph Hitler - go take a look at the collection of Hitler memorabilia they brought back from WWII...Incredible - from his death cape to Eva Brauns Hand mirror, A copy of Mien Kemp (sp?), his gold service dinner sets, luger and much more.....plus the museum is a free bee.

[Pete]

I bet very few of you have been to the Oklahoma History Center as well. It's an amazing place and resource.


And the Oklahoma Heritage Museum is very under appreciated:

NewSpin360.com | Virtual Tour

[PWitty]

Bricktown proper is simply stellar. If you have any doubt about that, take someone from out of town down there and witness their envious reaction.

There are always tons of people out and about, plenty of restaurants of all types, a bunch of hopping clubs, several live music venues, etc.


Qualifying districts by the type of people it appeals to is a completely different and subjective discussion.

But if we are going to compare urban districts between cities, I'll stack Bricktown up against anything from any city even close to the size of OKC.


And BTW, is there another city the size of OKC with as many large-scale residential developments (Level, Mosiac, Maywood Apartments, 4th Street, Metropolitan, East Bricktown, The Hill, The Edge, etc.) underway or about ready to start downtown? Or the number of downtown hotels?


People tend to over value other cities because it's new to them; and at the same time under value the city in which they live. It's why people in OKC completely dismiss and often don't even think about Bricktown.

I agree. It's the typical "grass is greener on the other side" type of thing. I am from the KC area and I will add that there are nowhere near the number of residential properties the quality of the ones that are already built or being built in downtown/midtown OKC. All of my friends who still work/live in the KC area all live in the suburbs, on the KS side, and they always talk about how they wish there was more to do nightlife wise. That's why I get so confused when I see others hype up places like KC and talk about how far below them OKC is.

Edit: Or maybe I'm just undervaluing my hometown like you said. Who knows.

[bchris02]

I agree. It's the typical "grass is greener on the other side" type of thing. I am from the KC area and I will add that there are nowhere near the number of residential properties the quality of the ones that are already built or being built in downtown/midtown OKC. All of my friends who still work/live in the KC area all live in the suburbs, on the KS side, and they always talk about how they wish there was more to do nightlife wise. That's why I get so confused when I see others hype up places like KC and talk about how far below them OKC is.

Edit: Or maybe I'm just undervaluing my hometown like you said. Who knows.

The Power & Light District in Kansas City is pretty awesome, indisputably above anything in OKC in my opinion. Their CBD also seems a bit more polished than OKC is. It really reminds me of downtown Charlotte in many ways. It has to be taken into account though that its metro is more than twice the size of OKC's at 2.6 million. It's not really a fair comparison. That's definitely interesting and unexpected though that they aren't experiencing the type of residential growth downtown there that OKC is. One thing that is different about OKC's downtown construction vs places like Charlotte is that here, it seems to be mostly apartments vs it being condos out there. Is that the case in Kansas City? Condos tend to sit empty longer and are unaffordable for a lot of young professionals starting out.

[Pete]

Power & Light shows 37 restaurants/bars/clubs opposed to 50 in Bricktown. And I seriously doubt they have as much in the pipeline as does Bricktown.

Keep in mind the MSA for KC is close to a million people larger than OKC.

[bchris02]

Power & Light shows 37 restaurants/bars/clubs opposed to 50 in Bricktown. And I seriously doubt they have as much in the pipeline as does Bricktown.

Keep in mind the MSA for KC is close to a million people larger than OKC.

Yeah, according to Wikipedia their metro area is 2.6 million. That is double the size of OKC.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah, according to Wikipedia their metro area is 2.6 million. That is double the size of OKC.

Hopefully that will change soon, as in OKC getting bigger. It will take a long while if it ever happens, but hopefully we can grow fast.

[Teo9969]

The 45th Infantry Museum on 36th and MLK is one of the better smaller museums you'll find - If you've ever heard of Adolph Hitler - go take a look at the collection of Hitler memorabilia they brought back from WWII...Incredible - from his death cape to Eva Brauns Hand mirror, A copy of Mien Kemp (sp?), his gold service dinner sets, luger and much more.....plus the museum is a free bee.

Mein Kampf

(I don't like to correct small things on this forum, but since I'm in Germany right now I had to)

[PWitty]

The Power & Light District in Kansas City is pretty awesome, indisputably above anything in OKC in my opinion. Their CBD also seems a bit more polished than OKC is. It really reminds me of downtown Charlotte in many ways. It has to be taken into account though that its metro is more than twice the size of OKC's at 2.6 million. It's not really a fair comparison. That's definitely interesting and unexpected though that they aren't experiencing the type of residential growth downtown there that OKC is. One thing that is different about OKC's downtown construction vs places like Charlotte is that here, it seems to be mostly apartments vs it being condos out there. Is that the case in Kansas City? Condos tend to sit empty longer and are unaffordable for a lot of young professionals starting out.

I agree that P&L is cool, it just has the feeling of one big bar instead of multiple ones because they're all open to the middle area. That makes it fun for large events like the Big 12 Tourny and summer concerts though. I don't know for sure about the condos. I will add that, from my point of view at least, it seems like most of the growth in the KC metro is happening in the burbs. That is one reason all my buddies live in Overland Park and Lenexa is because that is where a lot of the engineering and technical types of jobs are all at. Whereas with OKC all of that growth seems to be happening closer to downtown.

You could be right about the condos, I just feel like if the condo developments were on a large scale like a lot of the projects in OKC we would hear about them still.

I will agree that walking around the downtown core of KC has a more urban feel. But KC is a much older and more developed area, so that is to be expected with all the older construction.

[adaniel]

Yeah, according to Wikipedia their metro area is 2.6 million. That is double the size of OKC.

MSA is a little over 2 million, vs, 1.2 million for OKC. You are quoting the CSA.

[Pete]

In any event, KC is most definitely a Tier 2 city and OKC is Tier 3.

And we STILL have a bigger and faster growing urban district.


And Tulsa has absolutely nothing that even holds a candle.

[PWitty]

Being a fresh college graduate, I guess I would just expect KC to have a large number of neighborhoods or areas close to downtown where young professionals would be drawn. This seems to be the case in most large cities. Unfortunately, at least to my knowledge, that isn't really the case. It seems like most of the young professionals get scattered around all the different suburbs of KC. That's one of the big positives in my mind about OKC, is the rise of areas like DD and Midtown.

[bluedogok]

You also have to remember that Kansas City was an architecture and business center of westward expansion after the Civil War. They had a big head start over most cities in the middle of the country.

[Teo9969]

MSA is a little over 2 million, vs, 1.2 million for OKC. You are quoting the CSA.

OKC is a shade under 1.3

[Pete]

And as I have stated many times, cities built on navigable water were developed in a much more focused and dense way than those that were not.

KC probably has many times the amount of urban structures than OKC has ever had.

[UrbanNebraska]

Being a fresh college graduate, I guess I would just expect KC to have a large number of neighborhoods or areas close to downtown where young professionals would be drawn. This seems to be the case in most large cities. Unfortunately, at least to my knowledge, that isn't really the case. It seems like most of the young professionals get scattered around all the different suburbs of KC. That's one of the big positives in my mind about OKC, is the rise of areas like DD and Midtown.

Crossroads District, River Market and Westport are all incredible places for young people. Crossroads is easily my favorite place in KC. Crown Center and the Plaza also draw young people, but they are more expensive.

[adaniel]

I will add that, from my point of view at least, it seems like most of the growth in the KC metro is happening in the burbs. That is one reason all my buddies live in Overland Park and Lenexa is because that is where a lot of the engineering and technical types of jobs are all at. Whereas with OKC all of that growth seems to be happening closer to downtown.

Interesting you say that. I was reading an article in the NY Times a few months ago about the ridiculous incentive "border war" between MO and KS. Lots of companies have been, for the most part, bribed into moving into Kansas. It doesn't seem like it is having a positive effect on their overall economy. Last time I looked KC is growing much slower than OKC and is under-performing compared other "I-35" metros. Which stinks because they do have a ton of engineering and R&D-type firms.

That is one thing I really like about OKC. City and suburbs here may compete on some level here, but when it comes to big economic development projects everyone falls in line for 'the greater good'. Also, even at its worst, downtown and surrounding districts have always had the largest concentration of jobs in OKC, which is still true to this day.

As far as the P&L district, when I went there it was alright, but seemed a bit contrived. OTOH, I really did like the Country Club Plaza area. There are also some nice areas like Brookside and Westport.

[PWitty]

Crossroads District, River Market and Westport are all incredible places for young people. Crossroads is easily my favorite place in KC. Crown Center and the Plaza also draw young people, but they are more expensive.

I am fairly familiar with the Westport area. My girlfriend and a few of my friends from school are at KUMC so I have been around there a bit. I'm not too familiar with Crossroads or the River Market though. I'll have to be sure to check those out when I go home and visit in a few weeks. I wouldn't count the Plaza or Crown Center in the types of neighborhoods I'm talking about though. I was thinking more along the lines of an area with residential space, and that doesn't seem all that prevalent in those areas. They are both really nice places though.

I have to throw it out there that I haven't had the luxury of spending much time in KC since I've been old enough to really go out anywhere. I was at KU since high school so most of my school years were spent in Lawrence, and my summers I was usually gone for internships. So most of the recent things I hear are just from talking with friends back home or reading about them online.

[PWitty]

Interesting you say that. I was reading an article in the NY Times a few months ago about the ridiculous incentive "border war" between MO and KS. Lots of companies have been, for the most part, bribed into moving into Kansas. It doesn't seem like it is having a positive effect on their overall economy. Last time I looked KC is growing much slower than OKC and is under-performing compared other "I-35" metros. Which stinks because they do have a ton of engineering and R&D-type firms.

That is one thing I really like about OKC. City and suburbs here may compete on some level here, but when it comes to big economic development projects everyone falls in line for 'the greater good'. Also, even at its worst, downtown and surrounding districts have always had the largest concentration of jobs in OKC, which is still true to this day.

As far as the P&L district, when I went there it was alright, but seemed a bit contrived. OTOH, I really did like the Country Club Plaza area. There are also some nice areas like Brookside and Westport.

I think I know the article you're talking about. That is one of the things that kind of sucks about KC being right on a state border is that KS and MO are always competing for everything. Cerner, one of if not the biggest employer in KC, had it's original campus in North KCMO. But now they're building a lot of their newer facilities on the KS side of the metro over by Legends and the Kansas Speedway. Like you said, that's one cool thing about OKC is how all of the growth seems to be centralized within the city limits and not sprawled out all across the metro.

[Edgar]

Edgar - I hope your goal in life is not to stir the pot as a teenager....cause you're trying awful hard with mis facts and inuendo. LOL

Just offering my impressions from a recent visit to T-Town in defense of the place based on what others said. How is that stirring the pot. I had a nice time and was impressed with the energy downtown. In the next couple of months I'll be again visiting to see my hero Buddy Guy, Vintage truble and Gov't Mule are appearing, Widespread Panic. You should take a trip up the pike and check it out.

[Bellaboo]

Just offering my impressions from a recent visit to T-Town in defense of the place based on what others said. How is that stirring the pot. I had a nice time and was impressed with the energy downtown. In the next couple of months I'll be again visiting to see my hero Buddy Guy, Vintage truble and Gov't Mule are appearing, Widespread Panic. You should take a trip up the pike and check it out.

You'll have a good time, I just got back from a trip to Red Rocks in Morrison Colorado, the best outdoor venue in the world, to see OneRepublic. Next week we go to London and Paris but not for music.
One thing Tulsa has that I go up there occasionally for, and I know this is crazy to some folks, but the Arkansas River has a lot of Indian artifacts, with about 10% of recovery considered Paleo.....now this is an advantage Tulsa has over OKC.....

Edgar, you're fine, everyone on this board is entitled to their opinions......but it can teach us all to grow a little thick skin.

[Rover]

Is Edgar from Tulsa? Tulsans can't stand OKC's prosperity.

As for the science museum...had visitors from Plano two weeks ago. They took their two kids there twice in three days. The kids absolutely loved it.