2013 Moore Public Schools Bond Package

[Zuplar]

I noticed in the recent school board minutes the board voted for something to do with a bond for 2015. Not sure if this has to do with the one passed, because I know they haven't completed all work, or if this is a new one. Does anyone have any idea?

2.12.15min.pdf

Agenda_2_12_15F.pdf

[Robert_M]

No inside information but I believe this is still related to the 2013 bond. The original amount approved was somewhere around 126 million and they are just releasing it over time. Will probably be a couple more over the next few years.

[Zuplar]

That seems to make sense. I wonder what their next plan is. I know they still need to add some Pre-k's and acquire land for future schools. Moore is real behind in the Pre-k and Kindergarten realm.

[Zuplar]

Looks like next school board should release info for the next bond issue. Still paying on the last one and here they go again wanting to raise taxes again.

[Robert_M]

Not a bond expert again but I don't think they are allowed to have more then one bond issue out at a time. As this last one was suppose to be a 5 year bond they may be planning for the future or still trying to find projects for the current money they have. Unfortunately they don't have a video up to show the presentation made but July 30th is when they are suppose to do the special meeting. Concerned citizens can attend to see what they are planning.

Also the usual defense on these bond issues is they say it wont raise your taxes because they usually have the election for new one when the last one is expiring. So while technically true taxes wont go up they would go down if it failed I just don't see voters in the district letting it.

Edit: Never mind just saw this browsing facebook

"Moore Public Schools Ms. Lee,
You are correct - shelters are a need and that initiative will be on the next bond issue (October). Once passed, we will have one at each site. If you would like additional information feel free to give me a call (735-4249)
Dr. Romines"

Since this is for saferooms I don't have a doubt this will get passed however they shouldn't ask for as much as they did in 2013 which had an increase of approximately $12.00 per $100,000 value. Will just have to see what they come up with.

[Zuplar]

My biggest issue is this should have been on the last bond issue. Property taxes in Cleveland county are ridiculous compared to just across the border where I was in Canadian county.

[Zuplar]

Just noticed they posted the agenda for the new bond issue. I worry that many people are going to vote for this because it's going to be toted as providing storm shelters, which sure a small portion of it does. But from what I read a lot of it does what the last one said it was supposed to do, which is BS. What I find most appalling is that they are wanting improvements on some of the brand new schools, schools which don't even open till August. Lol you got to be kidding me. Moore jacked up property taxes last time and clearly didn't get enough money and coming for us again. I really had reservations moving into the Moore school district, really wish I'd have bought something 400 yards to the West to not be in this district. Property taxes are outrageous.

[SoonerDave]

Just noticed they posted the agenda for the new bond issue. I worry that many people are going to vote for this because it's going to be toted as providing storm shelters, which sure a small portion of it does. But from what I read a lot of it does what the last one said it was supposed to do, which is BS. What I find most appalling is that they are wanting improvements on some of the brand new schools, schools which don't even open till August. Lol you got to be kidding me. Moore jacked up property taxes last time and clearly didn't get enough money and coming for us again. I really had reservations moving into the Moore school district, really wish I'd have bought something 400 yards to the West to not be in this district. Property taxes are outrageous.

Yeah, as many reasons as there are to love where I live, the property taxes are absolutely NOT among them. Lots of folks who move into the area and don't closely read their real estate disclosures get a brickbat across the face when their first property tax bill comes.

And if you're lucky enough to live in that "taxing netherworld" around or just south of the OK/Cleveland County line (89th street), you may find yourself in that fun region where you get essentially a double-whammy of taxation from two different authorities. It's absolutely ludicrous to compare a property tax bill for me in relation to a house that might be barely a mile north, even adjusted for size/age.

[Zuplar]

Yeah, as many reasons as there are to love where I live, the property taxes are absolutely NOT among them. Lots of folks who move into the area and don't closely read their real estate disclosures get a brickbat across the face when their first property tax bill comes.

And if you're lucky enough to live in that "taxing netherworld" around or just south of the OK/Cleveland County line (89th street), you may find yourself in that fun region where you get essentially a double-whammy of taxation from two different authorities. It's absolutely ludicrous to compare a property tax bill for me in relation to a house that might be barely a mile north, even adjusted for size/age.

Right. Yeah I live west of the airport and if I was in Canadian county my bill would probably be $1000 cheaper.

[Easy180]

With two kids just entering the Moore school system there will be two yes votes from the Easy household

[Zuplar]

With two kids just entering the Moore school system there will be two yes votes from the Easy household

Boo.

I would understand if it was a needed bond issue. But the fact they want improvements on buildings that haven't been used, schools less that 2 years old, transportation (which mind you was a decent portion of the bond issue in 2013), technology (also a large portion of 2013), is unsettling and seems a bit unethical to me. I voted yes on the last one, cause it seemed like what they are asking for was needed. But at this rate they'll be asking for all this again in 2017. It seems like the school district really knows how to blow money and I don't really have a lot of faith in the leadership or board.

edit.

Now if this was a significantly smaller bond just to place storm shelters at every school that didn't have one, I'd be all for it. But the fact is they are advertising it, at least thus far, as being primarily for shelters, when in fact its like a $204 million (if I remember correctly) bond that has more to do with the everything else than shelters. Just seems really shady and I'm so surprised people are willing to blindly vote yes because 'it's for the kids come on.'

[Zuplar]

I noticed that the school updated their agenda today and looks like the removed all of the wording about the bond specifics. But I had already looked at it and have a copy, so for those interested, here it is:

Agenda_Sp_BOE_7-30-15.pdf

[Zuplar]

The Moore Monthly has an article about the new bond issue. Just as I thought they advertise it as storm shelters. As they spell out the storm shelter portion only amounts to a little over half, I think $115 million. I'll give them credit they do talk about the other portions of the bond issue, but I imagine most people are going to say storm shelters, I vote yes, without looking at it. I really hope it gets divided up. I absolutely would vote for the storm shelters, it's asinine with Moore's history these weren't built in like so many other OKC metro schools have done. But if it's an all or nothing deal I will definitely be voting no.

ISSUU - Moore Monthly - Aug 15 by Moore Monthly

[SoonerDave]

Zup, I think you've got some valid points...I see funds for the relatively new Wayland Bonds and Bryant elementary schools, but I don't see anything for the repair or update for schools like Southgate, although I suspect its damage may be covered by insurance (?).

Don't honestly see any way these don't pass, however. The storm shelter portion will simply be too compelling to veto.

[Zuplar]

Zup, I think you've got some valid points...I see funds for the relatively new Wayland Bonds and Bryant elementary schools, but I don't see anything for the repair or update for schools like Southgate, although I suspect its damage may be covered by insurance (?).

Don't honestly see any way these don't pass, however. The storm shelter portion will simply be too compelling to veto.

Yes, in the article it talks about Southgate and that everything is getting done with insurance etc.

I agree with your last point, and for me it's the principal of it. Moore isn't the only district to do what I would consider somewhat unethical things like packaging things the schools need with things the school wants. It compels people to say well if I vote against it I seem like a bad person cause I don't want the kids to be safe. It's a catch 22. FWIW if we weren't still paying on the last bond issue I'd be a lot more inclined to vote yes either way, but like I've said before my property taxes are already ridiculously high. I think I pay $1000 more than my parents who live 4 miles west of me, and their house is valued about $150,000 more than mine and it's not like Moore Schools are any better than Mustang's.

[SoonerDave]

Yes, in the article it talks about Southgate and that everything is getting done with insurance etc.

I agree with your last point, and for me it's the principal of it. Moore isn't the only district to do what I would consider somewhat unethical things like packaging things the schools need with things the school wants. It compels people to say well if I vote against it I seem like a bad person cause I don't want the kids to be safe. It's a catch 22. FWIW if we weren't still paying on the last bond issue I'd be a lot more inclined to vote yes either way, but like I've said before my property taxes are already ridiculously high. I think I pay $1000 more than my parents who live 4 miles west of me, and their house is valued about $150,000 more than mine and it's not like Moore Schools are any better than Mustang's.

Well, FWIW, Moore's schools are about triple the enrollment of Mustang, and they have a lot more infrastructure to maintain as their schools cover a fairly large chunk of SW OKC all the way down into south Moore/north Norman at the extremes. I won't say that entirely justifies the property tax disparity, but there are some valid practical differences.

[Zuplar]

Well, FWIW, Moore's schools are about triple the enrollment of Mustang, and they have a lot more infrastructure to maintain as their schools cover a fairly large chunk of SW OKC all the way down into south Moore/north Norman at the extremes. I won't say that entirely justifies the property tax disparity, but there are some valid practical differences.

Yeah I get it's a fairly sizable district, but Mustang has one of the larger ones as well as one of the largest single High Schools in the state. They almost always have a bond issue or 2 going, I think they may have 2 going now, and still it's a sizable difference in price. What I don't understand is that Canadian Valley Tech I think is quite a bit bigger than the Norman one so I'd think that would add more to people living in their area. I'd be curious to see a breakdown, maybe there is something else driving up my taxes.

[KL_Moore]

I agree that some of the recent and proposed bond projects have been more "want" items than some others which would be more of a priority IMO.

For example the five pre-existing junior highs are still under their collective building capacity for all of 7th and 8th grades (and have been ever since the 9th grade classes were moved to the high schools when Southmoore opened). Yet the district decided to build a sixth one (Southridge) for what I believe the primary reason is to give each high school exactly two feeder junior highs and not split-feed a junior high into multiple high schools. Yes, Brink was approaching (or perhaps above) its building capacity, but I believe that redistricting some of the Brink area into Moore West and/or Highland West (both below capacity) would've solved the problem without a new school (at least for another few years) - and if push comes to shove some of the Highland West area could be moved to Central like it was before Southmoore opened (although that would create another split-feed junior high); as demonstrated by using one of the CJH buildings for Plaza Towers classes after the 2013 tornado, Central Junior High is at only about 2/3 to 3/4 of its capacity. (Besides Brink the only other junior high that was close to its capacity was Highland East, and some of its area was moved to Central in the 2014 redistricting.) Now if the plan was to move 9th graders back down to the junior highs to create more space at the high schools, or go to a middle school system and move 6th graders up (also creating more space for Pre-K and full-day kindergarten classes), then building a sixth junior high would've been a good use of the money. However, building a whole new school for the sake of better activity coordination and/or not splitting student groups up is a second-tier priority IMO. Now that the junior highs that don't already have safe rooms (Central with the new shared-with-Central-Elementary shelter and Highland East) will get an addition if the bond passes that means an even bigger surplus of junior high building space. The two elementary schools built with the last bond issue are perfectly acceptable - with the building going on in those parts of the district they'd be needed if not now pretty soon.

Back to the subject of expanding early childhood programs - at many of the elementaries I believe that's what the additional classroom space created by the safe rooms will be used for (at a few of the schools it appears to be earmarked for another kind of addition - but still one that would be utilized in the immediate future). However like what was said there are a lot of "luxury" items on the ballot - like extra gyms - too (going back to the last few bond issues the district felt that each high school needed three gyms when having a "large" and a "small" one each worked fine for many years, although Westmoore did deserve a new one with more seating - if space for athletic practices is a concern every elementary now has a gym* in addition to the junior high gyms). *I supported the elementary gyms though because I remember what it was like to have P.E. in the cafeteria, classroom, or hallway in inclement weather before they were built in the early 2000s.

[Zuplar]

Lots of good info there, but you bring up another one of my gripe, the district doesn't even have all day kindergarten. What a joke. If I were to have a kid old enough to enroll, I'm pretty sure the elementary for my house doesn't have all day kindergarten. Which is ridiculous, because I guarantee I pay more property taxes than a lot of the people who's school does offer full day. What an absolute joke. Now granted most districts around the city don't have Pre-K for everyone, so I'll give Moore a pass on that one. I know this much, if there isn't all day kindergarten at all schools by the time I have a kid old enough, I will be doing everything in my power to get my kid transferred to Mustang or Yukon, even if that means I have to move to do it.

[SoonerDave]

For example the five pre-existing junior highs are still under their collective building capacity for all of 7th and 8th grades (and have been ever since the 9th grade classes were moved to the high schools when Southmoore opened). Yet the district decided to build a sixth one (Southridge) for what I believe the primary reason is to give each high school exactly two feeder junior highs and not split-feed a junior high into multiple high schools.

Organizationally I believe you're spot-on as far as feeder schools go, but there was a practical side, too. I think Moore's district leaders/planners knew that their current junior high capacity wasn't sufficient to cover the eventual seventh and eighth-graders that would emerge from the large elementary number increase Moore saw over the last few years, so they had to plan (well) in advance for it to come. I think the last year or two is the first one in a while where the overall elementary enrollment is either flat or only slightly higher than last year. For a lot of years, I think there had been really big growth each year, and it was really putting the pressure on the elementary schools...

[Zuplar]

School site admin is slow, links aren't very good on some of this, and if I wouldn't have googled, not sure how anyone would find this. At the time there really aren't any links to it on their main page, but I'd assume that would change. For those curious:

Bond 2015 / Expect Moore- Bond 2015

[KL_Moore]

From what it looks like the shelters at the junior highs (that don't already have shelters) will take the form of a new full-size air-conditioned gym (and likewise VISTA, the alternative school, will get a safe-room gym) - I originally thought it was going to just be more classrooms (which especially with Southridge in operation there is a surplus at the junior high level). At MHS it appears to be taking the form of new classrooms, and at SHS the form of a lecture center and other athletic facilities (WHS already has a safe room that was built after the school was hit by the 1999 tornado). As of this post the elementary plans haven't been posted.

[Zuplar]

Back to the 2013 Bond issue, I sent the school a tweet asking for updates since it had been a real long time since they had and looks like they updated some of it for those interested what projects have been done from the last bond issue. I think it's relevant to take a look and compare to the one we are going to vote for in October.

Bond 2013 / Thank You!

[Zuplar]

The school posted up an oppurtunity for people to ask questions so I sent them a quick email with some of my concerns about the lack of Pre-K and full day Kindergarten. I wanted to share with everyone what the Superintendent wrote back to me. While I'd have liked for him to outline a plan with to get this resolved sooner, it does seem that this is on their radar which is good. It's also good to note that they took the time to write me back. with that being said here is what he replied with:

Good Afternoon –

The 2013 bond issue enabled the school district to build and open 3 early childhood facilities (Central Elementary, Earlywine Elementary, and Sky Ranch Elementary). The one at Central opened August 2015, Earlywine opens August 2016, and Sky Ranch opens August 2017. Once the three centers are complete, we will still have few sites that will house pre- k programs. These sites will be selected based on the convenience of our patrons who live on the most east and west sides of our school district. We review sections and availability each school year – if we need to add additional pre-k sections we do. As far as all-day kindergarten is concerned – we add each year as classroom space becomes available. For example, we added 4 all-day programs for the 2015/16 school year. We will continue to add as long as funding and classroom space is available. Please let us know if you have additional questions.



Sincerely,



Dr. Romines

[Plutonic Panda]

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