What happened to NW OKC?

[mkjeeves]

These multistory stores are local to Wrigleyville. I don't think that's the Home Depot I remembered closer to downtown and it does have direct access at ground level. Looks like there might be some back parking but other than that, it's curbside. Most shoppers would be taking mass trans or walking and having larger orders delivered. The only time I visited a hardware store when they lived downtown we walked to an Ace Hardware and had some paint mixed and walked back to their condo. Were they doing a remodel, they would have had a delivery brought up the freight elevator. Same thing they do when they have bought furniture at Ikea in the burbs.

[Rom]

I grew up in Bethany. Went to school at PCWest. Our first house we bought was in Brownsville, a nice neighborhood in Bethany.
I wanted to make Bethany work, not leave my roots. But the drive from I-40 to 39 on Council became too much for the wife. Everyday she'd say we've got to get out of here. I don't feel safe at the grocery stores. This is Bethany we are talking about.
Sure enough we took the great white flight to Edmond and built a beautiful house in Red Bud Canyon. I still drive thru Bethany and realize we made the right choice. PC West is now one of the poorest schools in the state, I think they have close to 90% government assisted breakfasts.
It's too simple to say the apartments killed Bethany but they sure didn't help. I really don't recognize that town from where it was 15 years ago.

[rezman]

I grew up in War Acres, and have lived in the Okc area all my life. I went to Putnam City Schools, and gratuated from PC West. My dad worked for Western Electric for 38 years and moved here in 1958. He worked in the WE plant when it was over on 39th Between Portland and Tulsa, before the plant on Reno & Council was built.

Back in the 60's the the 10th street corridor between Meridian and Council was already on a down hill slide, and was known as a rough area. But back in the trees, on both sides of 10th street were, and still are a lot of nice homes built before the 60's back when that area was all rural.

[1972ford]

If you live right the Bethany or warr acres police stations and are willing and capable of homeschooling your kids there's not a better place to live here. Your kids can walk around the neighborhood and to the park just like we did when we were kids especially around the warr acres station. I'm always seeing 10 to 20 kids running around outside school hours I see that no where else around town unless there are a bunch of adults around

[SSEiYah]

What happened?

Section 8 apartments took over the area, after it was too crime ridden, the apartments were abandoned, residents moved from 10th to the burb's in areas on the nw side like 122nd/penn, lyrewood area, and britton/rockwell. Yes, the crime followed.

[Midtowner]

The crime is pretty much concentrated into those low-income housing areas. Being a resident of NW OKC, I don't really see a crime problem.

[zookeeper]

The crime is pretty much concentrated into those low-income housing areas. Being a resident of NW OKC, I don't really see a crime problem.

Except if you live in Ward One and see what's happening in these outer areas, you would be very concerned. The criminals in these apartments spill into the neighborhoods surrounding them and steal during the day, vandalize cars at night, congregate in large groups and intimidate people. It's all forcing people to flee the entire area and home prices plummet and then those entire neighborhoods are ghettos that were very nice not that long ago. During the years of zero down minority targeting mortgages these neighborhoods went to hell. Those pockets are getting bigger and that's what scares alot of people. Ask around about the student populations at the PC high schools and the large percentage of transient students from nearby apartments and crummy housing. It's all sad but it's a valid concern.

[UncleCyrus]

Wow. So frustrating time and again to pen a lengthy response only to have it erased and/or be told "I can't perform this action because I'm not logged in" even though I've logged out, logged in, and re-written three times. It finally posts and it only posts a portion of it. You'll have to just take my last post and imagine the rest. I promise I was pithy and intelligent Good night.

I get that too. I finally started composing longer posts in Word or Notepad and then copy and paste them here.

[Midtowner]

Except if you live in Ward One and see what's happening in these outer areas, you would be very concerned. The criminals in these apartments spill into the neighborhoods surrounding them and steal during the day, vandalize cars at night, congregate in large groups and intimidate people. It's all forcing people to flee the entire area and home prices plummet and then those entire neighborhoods are ghettos that were very nice not that long ago. During the years of zero down minority targeting mortgages these neighborhoods went to hell. Those pockets are getting bigger and that's what scares alot of people. Ask around about the student populations at the PC high schools and the large percentage of transient students from nearby apartments and crummy housing. It's all sad but it's a valid concern.

On either side of my neighborhood, you'll find section 8 apartments. What you're claiming happens just isn't happening.

[mkjeeves]

That's way overblown. I live in Ward 1 in a very safe and stable neighborhood. Here's a crime map of OKC.

Oklahoma City crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout

[rezman]

That's way overblown. I live in Ward 1 in a very safe and stable neighborhood. Here's a crime map of OKC.

Oklahoma City crime rates and statistics - NeighborhoodScout

Looks like a solicitation to me. You can get that information for free, without having to subscribe to anything.

Oklahoma City Neighborhood Alliance Neighborhood Alliance

Or the Oklahoma City Police web site City of Oklahoma City | Police

It's a known fact that neighborhoods that surround section 8 apartments have a higher crime rate and lower property values. Doesn't matter what ward their in.

[mkjeeves]

Agreed. You can go to many websites and find out the same thing as what is represented in the map I linked, that NW Oklahoma City is a pretty safe place. It isn't anywhere near the black hole of crime some people have portrayed it as. My neighborhood in Ward 1 that a poster up thread described as a combat zone is far closer to the safest neighborhoods in OKC than the least safe. Yes, as I said before, the city needs to get involved in cleaning up the derelict apartments along 10th street.

[Leigh Baby]

A few days ago, I got the chance to take a look at some vacant mid-century homes that are currently up for sale. One of them was near NW 10th and Rockwell. The house itself was really cool-- great landscaping in both the front and back yard, nice facade, great floor plan. It looked to be in decent shape for the most part (except that the front door had obviously been kicked in at some point). Most of the other houses in the immediate neighborhood also looked like they were well-kept (or at least, not poorly kept).

The rest of the surrounding area, though? It looked like a demilitarized zone.

Driving east on NW 10th from MacArthur to Rockwell was one of the most depressing things I've done in a long time. There's very little retail to speak of-- it seems to be nothing but 1970s apartment complexes, several of which are boarded up and rotting, some with entire units that have been completely burnt out!

In high school, I had a friend who lived in the NW 19th and MacArthur area. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, the area wasn't bad. It wasn't great either, but it was certainly better than it is now.

My question is: What happened here? I mean, pretty much everything north of I-40 and west of I-35 is rundown now. Does it have something to do with the downtown revitalization? Is it because everyone moved to Moore/SW OKC? What causes whole areas to decline so rapidly? Why did they build so many apartments there in the first place?

That area used to be pretty swank back in the 70's but as we all know, low-rent apartments mean (EVENTUAL)instant slum. When I lived in OKC, (1952-1976) Rockwell and west was cow patures, then nice housing and eventually the ever-popular apartment complex. This was before we knew about instant slums and I'm sorry to hear it's gone that way.

[Leigh Baby]

I grew up in War Acres, and have lived in the Okc area all my life. I went to Putnam City Schools, and gratuated from PC West. My dad worked for Western Electric for 38 years and moved here in 1958. He worked in the WE plant when it was over on 39th Between Portland and Tulsa, before the plant on Reno & Council was built.

Back in the 60's the the 10th street corridor between Meridian and Council was already on a down hill slide, and was known as a rough area. But back in the trees, on both sides of 10th street were, and still are a lot of nice homes built before the 60's back when that area was all rural.

I went to NW Classen which, outside of Nichols Hills was the best school in town at the time. I was always a NW OKC girl and wouldn't be caught dead on the 'south side' (funny how times change) I remember when Reno street was declared the worst skid row in the USA, hands down (@ 68-69, I'm sure you could look up the article in the Oklahoman archives) and the Classen Circle was still there. How could they let that landmark be destroyed? But progress sometimes screws up every thing.

PS, my cousins, Joey, David and Terry Prescott went ot Putnam City.

[Pete]

I grew up in Bethany. Went to school at PCWest. Our first house we bought was in Brownsville, a nice neighborhood in Bethany.
I wanted to make Bethany work, not leave my roots. But the drive from I-40 to 39 on Council became too much for the wife. Everyday she'd say we've got to get out of here. I don't feel safe at the grocery stores. This is Bethany we are talking about.
Sure enough we took the great white flight to Edmond and built a beautiful house in Red Bud Canyon. I still drive thru Bethany and realize we made the right choice. PC West is now one of the poorest schools in the state, I think they have close to 90% government assisted breakfasts.
It's too simple to say the apartments killed Bethany but they sure didn't help. I really don't recognize that town from where it was 15 years ago.

I've talked about this before but will repeat it here as well...

I graduated from PC in 1978 and grew up near 63rd & Meridian, right near Rollingwood Elementary. In the 60's and 70's, PC Schools were the best in the state and the NW sector of OKC was the nicest area around.

I keep the database of my high school class (900 strong!) and the vast majority of my classmates who still live in Central OK are in the Edmond school district now.

In just one generation, that huge area of town went from the best to a place where even those that grew up there (like Rom) have fled for Edmond.


We spend a ton of time here talking about the urban core but the truth is that this previously very nice area has quietly gone way down hill. Makes me incredibly sad every time I visit.

[Leigh Baby]

I've talked about this before but will repeat it here as well...

I graduated from PC in 1978 and grew up near 63rd & Meridian, right near Rollingwood Elementary. In the 60's and 70's, PC Schools were the best in the state and the NW sector of OKC was the nicest area around.

I keep the database of my high school class (900 strong!) and the vast majority of my classmates who still live in Central OK are in the Edmond school district now.

In just one generation, that huge area of town went from the best to a place where even those that grew up there (like Rom) have fled for Edmond.


We spend a ton of time here talking about the urban core but the truth is that this previously very nice area has quietly gone way down hill. Makes me incredibly sad every time I visit.

My dear Pete, you seem to be an old timer too. I haven't been back since the late 80's but I know a lot has changed. When I was there OKC was a cow town, a BIG cow town but a cow town nevertheless (you wanted culture, go to Tulsa) Downtown was on a downward slide by the early 60's and even worse after Shepards Mall was built. Everybody went north and west and with Curtis P Harris as county attorney and old Gaylord keeping us down what was supposed to become a major convention center failed because you couldnt get liquor by the drink. I always thought Gaylord cost OKC it's major chance to shine. He owned the paper and controlled everything. He was hard shelled baptist or some other restrictive religion and it's a wonder The City is still there. It makes me proud to know she's still going strong.

[Leigh Baby]

The crime is pretty much concentrated into those low-income housing areas. Being a resident of NW OKC, I don't really see a crime problem.

Well, Midtowner, you know what they say. A democrat is a republican that's never been falsely arrested and a republican is a democrat that's never been over taxed and seeing somebody build a structure that blocks your view of the boat dock will turn you into an environmentalist overnight.

[rezman]

I went to NW Classen which, outside of Nichols Hills was the best school in town at the time. I was always a NW OKC girl and wouldn't be caught dead on the 'south side' (funny how times change) I remember when Reno street was declared the worst skid row in the USA, hands down (@ 68-69, I'm sure you could look up the article in the Oklahoman archives) and the Classen Circle was still there. How could they let that landmark be destroyed? But progress sometimes screws up every thing.

PS, my cousins, Joey, David and Terry Prescott went ot Putnam City.

I remember when Reno was pretty bad. Remember those flop houses that used to be across from the bus station, and the bums sleeping on the side walks? I don't recall the rating as the worst skid row though. During the 60's and 70's we used to travel up to Chicago a couple times a year to visit my grand parents. We would get on the train here in Okc and get off at Union station Chicago. Okc had nothing on some of the things I saw in downtown Chicago.

[Leigh Baby]

I remember when Reno was pretty bad. Remember those flop houses that used to be across from the bus station, and the bums sleeping on the side walks? I don't recall the rating as the worst skid row though. During the 60's and 70's we used to travel up to Chicago a couple times a year to visit my grand parents. We would get on the train here in Okc and get off at Union station Chicago. Okc had nothing on some of the things I saw in downtown Chicago.

Yes indeed I remember those flops. Two story walk-ups, 1 restroom in back. About $1 a day. How about on the corner of Broadway and Sheridan? The Talk of the Town bar?? Tradewinds across the street? Awesome times those were. Agreed Chi has to be bad but OKC was outrageous. There was an Indian bar just east of the bus station too. Never went in there but once and was with an indian girl friend or I wouldn't have dared.
Those were wild times.

[rezman]

This was before my time, but the man I used to work for told me stories about how him and his friends would hang out in some of the bars downtown and do bare fisted fighting for money in back alleys off of Broadway. I met a couple of the other gentlemen who participated in these events, but by that time they all were in their late 60's and early '70's. These were tough old boys. One of the men, who was a BIG man with huge hands the size of dinner plates, punched a guy so hard it killed him instantly. They spoke of many wild times downtown.

[Leigh Baby]

This was before my time, but the man I used to work for told me stories about how him and his friends would hang out in some of the bars downtown and do bare fisted fighting for money in back alleys off of Broadway. I met a couple of the other gentlemen who participated in these events, but by that time they all were in their late 60's and early '70's. These were tough old boys. One of the men, who was a BIG man with huge hands the size of dinner plates, punched a guy so hard it killed him instantly. They spoke of many wild times downtown.

I never saw back alley fights but I'm sure they existed. Almost any other 'sport' you want to name certainly did. And I do know where some bodies are buried, figuratively speaking.

[rezman]

I went to NW Classen which, outside of Nichols Hills was the best school in town at the time. I was always a NW OKC girl and wouldn't be caught dead on the 'south side' (funny how times change) I remember when Reno street was declared the worst skid row in the USA, hands down (@ 68-69, I'm sure you could look up the article in the Oklahoman archives) and the Classen Circle was still there. How could they let that landmark be destroyed? But progress sometimes screws up every thing.

PS, my cousins, Joey, David and Terry Prescott went ot Putnam City.

Oh... I forgot to mention, .. Leigh baby, you asked about the Classen Circle. That was removed when traffic increased to the point that there were too many accidents in that location. So it was replaced with a standard design.

[Just the facts]

Oh... I forgot to mention, .. Leigh baby, you asked about the Classen Circle. That was removed when traffic increased to the point that there were too many accidents in that location. So it was replaced with a standard design.

Which ironically is now the most dangerous intersection in the state. Go figure.

[Buffalo Bill]

Which ironically is now the most dangerous intersection in the state. Go figure.

Not true; doesn't even make the top 10 in OKC:

OKC releases list of top 10 dangerous intersections | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4

[Just the facts]

From the second line in your link.

The intersection of Belle Isle and Northwest Expressway is the dubious leader with the most accidents over the last several years.

and the list...

OKC’s top 10 most dangerous intersections:
1. N.W. Expressway and Belle Isle Blvd.
2. N.W. Expressway and Rockwell
3. N.W. Expressway and Portland
4. N.W. Expressway and N.W. 63rd St.
5. N.W. Expressway and Lake Hefner Parkway (east side)
6. N.W. Expressway and Pennsylvania Ave.
7. N.W. 39th Expressway and Meridian
8. N. MacArthur and Reno Ave.
9. S. Western Ave. and S.W. 59th St.
10. N.W. Expressway and Lake Hefner Parkway (west side)