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  1. Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    98.1 billion final estimated full build cost
    California is going to be more expensive to build out than most areas in the Plains and Great Lakes. So you can't automatically take their cost per mile (for example) and say it will equal the same for the line that will run Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago or Chicago-St. Louis. Mostly flat terrain and the ability to have straight lines will be much more feasible than winding in an out of the mountains in California.

  2. #227

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

    20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?

  3. #228

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by venture View Post
    California is going to be more expensive to build out than most areas in the Plains and Great Lakes. So you can't automatically take their cost per mile (for example) and say it will equal the same for the line that will run Cleveland-Toledo-Chicago or Chicago-St. Louis. Mostly flat terrain and the ability to have straight lines will be much more feasible than winding in an out of the mountains in California.
    i am such an idiot sometimes, don't even know how I didn't factor that in. We will still have the Arbuckles to deal with or I wonder if it would be cheaper to build around.

  4. #229

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    a few billion????? Try a few trillion, maybe ,

    California High Speed Rail Authority - State of California
    A few billion just for us. The whole system, of course, will be significantly more expensive.

  5. Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

    20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?
    1) We don't have the population density of Japan.

    2) We aren't connecting people from over 150 miles away from the city center to come into work in the CBD of OKC - there simply aren't enough people.

    I don't see why you would suggest having a HSR for LOCAL commuter rail over traditional rail since the speed benefits won't be there. A line from Norman to Downtown is going to likely have a stop in Moore and another in South OKC on its way in. The biggest break is going to be Norman-Moore which is about a 7 mile segment IIRC from the map I did a few months back.

  6. Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    i am such an idiot sometimes, don't even know how I didn't factor that in. We will still have the Arbuckles to deal with or I wonder if it would be cheaper to build around.
    You aren't an idiot. :-P Stop that.

    I don't think the Arbuckles are going to be a major deal since they aren't exact the Rockies with steep cliffs to contend with.

  7. #232

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Ridership on HSR is equal to attending a NBA game in downtown "The Peake" watching KD dunk on Howard.

    20 years ago we would have not "signed up" for that % of success for the Thunder. If we build a HSR Metro System it will be utilized to its fullest. They do in Japan. Why would we be any different?
    High speed rail is like pouring money into creating a network of filling stations for hydrogen powered vehicles. Maybe they're the wave of the future, and we'll be well ahead of the game. Maybe they're not. If HSR does not catch on, if 20 years from now there's no HSR network connecting Dallas to St Louis and Chicago, then we've spent a massive amount of money on something that is of very limited use.

    We should build an economical, functional local rail network. Let people who get off an airplane at Will Rogers take the train downtown. Let people who live in Midwest City take the train to Norman for an OU football game. Let's establish a regional transit authority and Midwest City, Del City, Moore, Edmond, Yukon, and other surrounding areas can help pay for it. Let's get it to work properly and let development spring up around the stations all across the city.

    Then, IF the nation decides to invest in HSR, let's get funding for it through the state legislature. That wouldn't be just an OKC project, it would be a statewide project. But I don't need to get from MWC to downtown in 2 1/2 minutes.

  8. #233

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by venture View Post
    1) We don't have the population density of Japan.

    2) We aren't connecting people from over 150 miles away from the city center to come into work in the CBD of OKC - there simply aren't enough people.

    I don't see why you would suggest having a HSR for LOCAL commuter rail over traditional rail since the speed benefits won't be there. A line from Norman to Downtown is going to likely have a stop in Moore and another in South OKC on its way in. The biggest break is going to be Norman-Moore which is about a 7 mile segment IIRC from the map I did a few months back.
    The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

    Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.

  9. #234

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoyasooner View Post
    A few billion just for us. The whole system, of course, will be significantly more expensive.
    Yes, ODOT is expensive too. Their annual budget is well over the billion mark.

  10. #235

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Yes, ODOT is expensive too. Their annual budget is well over the billion mark.
    Not wanting to spend several billion dollars on a fantasy high speed rail system does not mean that I like ODOT.

  11. #236

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

    Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.
    Local rail lines don't need to be high speed rail. Local rail lines have to slow down frequently to pick people up. We don't need to spend ten times the money to shave six minutes off the trip time.

  12. #237

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoyasooner View Post
    Not wanting to spend several billion dollars on a fantasy high speed rail system does not mean that I like ODOT.
    you mean like building an arena in hopes of getting a larger minor league hockey team..., because we never thought we would get an NHL team (okc is too small for an NHL). OH, yeah the NBA was a Top Tier league that would never look at OKC, ever. ( Al Eshbach ).

    No, it is not a fantasy, the other countries use it each day.

  13. #238

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoyasooner View Post
    Local rail lines don't need to be high speed rail. Local rail lines have to slow down frequently to pick people up. We don't need to spend ten times the money to shave six minutes off the trip time.
    Very few stops. Norman / South OKC (se 89th , this will include the Moore areas as well) / Downtown. Only 1 stop for the Norman group going to downtown.
    Edmond / North OKC (63 rd) / Downtown.
    Choctaw / MWC / DT.
    Yukon / West OKC ( council ) / DT.

    With a MagLev, the bracking times are much more efficient & the speeds are greater. ....not using the Heavy Diesel Engines to power this light rail train.

  14. Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    The needs & desires of a passenger in Japan vs. OKC is the same. We have expensive roads in OKC now. ( $200 M for I-240 / I-35 exchange est ) We spend billions of $$$ each year on the ODOT highways and they still cant get it right. We do this for a state w/ 3.4M people? ...we don't have the density for our ODOT budget either, but we continue to punch-out an Overpriced / Cloverleaf product in 2013?

    Yes, we need to have this in place for our OKC Metro Cities (Norman to OKC would be first / Edmond to OKC next / MWC to OKC / then Yukon to OKC. Let's take advantage of our lower cost of today, instead of waiting 20 years when it will be 4x the cost for the same thing.
    So exactly what are the trip times you figured out that HSR would take doing local rail versus standard commuter rail?

  15. #240
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    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!

  16. #241

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!
    Dibs on the first jet pack.

  17. #242

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Dibs on the first jet pack.
    if you guys were to get out a little bit and go to Houston. You can ride one today. w/o the jet pack.

  18. #243

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by venture View Post
    So exactly what are the trip times you figured out that HSR would take doing local rail versus standard commuter rail?
    Hey Venture, OKC Metro is fortunate to have the "flat / straight lines" for a higher speed rating on rail up to 150 ish mph in metro, and only a single stop would take you from Norman to Dowtown in only a few minutes. ...

  19. Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Hey Venture, OKC Metro is fortunate to have the "flat / straight lines" for a higher speed rating on rail up to 150 ish mph in metro, and only a single stop would take you from Norman to Dowtown in only a few minutes. ...
    So what is the acceleration and deceleration rates? What system are you proposing? What is the cost per mile? What about Moore and South OKC? What are the operating costs for such an operation?

  20. #245

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Heck, since we're sparing no expense at high speed travel, why stop at HSR, give me a freakin transporter. Stop thinking small people we can do this!
    That would be awesome. You could hop from one Olympic event to another in no time!

  21. #246

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    That would be awesome. You could hop from one Olympic event to another in no time!
    hey pants, you are getting it. ...and some of the events in OKC, you could even walk to.

  22. #247

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Vision, how about you explain how we are going to pay for it?

  23. #248

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    Quote Originally Posted by venture View Post
    So what is the acceleration and deceleration rates? What system are you proposing? What is the cost per mile? What about Moore and South OKC? What are the operating costs for such an operation?
    Venture, you strike me as a guy that likes some "facts", so here ya go. MagLev is a clean proven system. The ACOG has several (studies you can use as well) that you can read through.

    About the Shinkansen | Central Japan Railway Company

    This is a company that is successful at this, not just a few idealist.

  24. #249

    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    How about let's get commuter rail going first?

  25. #250
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    Default Re: OKC Light Rail System?

    You act like we don't think this stuff exists or that we wouldn't want to have it. We know it exists. I would be the first one in line if we got it. But I realize the impracticality of thinking our city of 1.2M metro could support a system used by a city/region of 12M+. Another example, the maglev in Shanghai, cost $1.2B to build and it is less than 20 miles long, but it supports a 24M metro population. Let's prove that we can wisely implement and manage our few mile $130M streetcar first, eh? Then lets make sure we can pull off commuter rail. Then, we'll see... baby steps...

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