NFL in OKC

[Snowman]

Jags still have a lease but that will end one day or be bought out. It was a bad idea to put an NFL franchise in that market to begin with and the NFL now realizes that. But they are stuck for now.

Though if someone bought the Jags to move them, the price to buying the team and pay off the lease is cheaper than just buying most of the rest of the teams in league and only few are in a position they could be moved any time soon.

[HOT ROD]

ASIDE:

urbanized, I live in Seattle and trust me it is NOT a world class city. Sure, it is a top 15 US city with a nice skyline on a hill up from Puget Sound but no need to placate what it is not.

We have just as much bumbling mistakes and backwater ideals as OKC and actually probably more; case-in-point wife and I took our infant son to downtown Seattle to ride the carousel at Westlake Plaza and it was CLOSED DOWN at 6pm ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!! Downtown SEA was dark, empty, aside from the handful of people (most likely from Canada) who were looking to celebrate Christmas but were horribly disappointed. Call that world class?

Losing the Sonics to OKC was another bumbling mistake. And we ALMOST lost the NFL Seahawks to LA (moving vans were loaded and almost on I-5 rolling south when last minute vote on new stadium 'saved the day') AND the MLB Mariners (which took King County and the state to bail them out by building Safeco Field).

Shanghai, Tokyo, NY, Chicago, London, Paris, etc - those are world class cities with incredible vibe, history, and prime status in every meaningful category you can think of. Seattle is just as far away from being a world class city as OKC is, and that's the truth. We just have more people in our metro area.

[OKCRT]

Though if someone bought the Jags to move them, the price to buying the team and pay off the lease is cheaper than just buying most of the rest of the teams in league and only few are in a position they could be moved any time soon.

The Jags owner just bought the team a few years ago and doesn't want to sell. He tried to buy the Rams first but was shutout so he went after the Jags. But if someone has an extra billion laying around they could put in a bid.

[kwhey]

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $100 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Something that will never happen."

Contestant: What is the NFL in OKC?

Alex: Correct

[Laramie]

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $100 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Something that will never happen."

Contestant: What is the NFL in OKC?

Alex: Correct

That's cute & creative kwhey.

The NFL in OKC thread can be used to talk about the NFL as TV viewers and other sundry activities. It's no slam on our market.

You learn things as posters: JTF (Kerry) came on, he provided us with valuable information as to why you 'don't want the NFL in OKC,' thru his evaluation of what has occurred in Jacksonville...

Kwhey, Second Round: Let's play jeopardy, again we have 'Sports Trivia.'

Contestant: I will take Sports Trivia for $200 Alex.

Alex: The answer is: "Which football crazed market couldn't be duped by the NFL?"

Contestant: What is the NFL in Oklahoma City?

Alex: Correct

Alex Trebek 'Next category?'

[Plutonic Panda]

I have heard from about 3 different people now who like sports say the NFL is eagerly looking for an expansion and that OKC was on a list of cities it is considering. Has anyone else heard the same thing?

The NFL would be freaking awesome to have here, but I'm not sure if OKC can support the Thunder, a possible MLS, AND NFl.

Does anyone know about cities of similar size of OKC that successfully support 3 or more pro sports teams?

[Jake]

If OKC got an NFL team....which I don't think is likely, nor would it be any time soon, the MLS would be kissed bye-bye imo.

[ljbab728]

I have heard from about 3 different people now who like sports say the NFL is eagerly looking for an expansion and that OKC was on a list of cities it is considering. Has anyone else heard the same thing?

The NFL would be freaking awesome to have here, but I'm not sure if OKC can support the Thunder, a possible MLS, AND NFl.

Does anyone know about cities of similar size of OKC that successfully support 3 or more pro sports teams?

I like sports so I guess that makes my opinion valid too. LOL

If the NFL was eagerly looking for expansion, they would eagerly be looking to expand to LA instead of finding current teams to move there.

[mugofbeer]

And Europe?

[ljbab728]

And Europe?

True. They've been playing footsie with London for some time.

[Snowman]

And Europe?

NFL expansion to Europe is a scheduling mess, may well get push back from players union if only one or two, and some of the rumors a few years ago indicated they would basically have to do an entire division there to really make it work.

[Achilleslastand]

They have had how many games from London this year? Three or so? They are trying to push this slowly but surely but I cant imagine a lot of the players enjoy the plane ride and the scheduling. As far as OKC goes don't see that happening. Putting 60,000 people in seats at least 8 times a year may prove difficult especially given all of the airtime here given to the Chiefs and Cowboys.

[TU 'cane]

I have heard from about 3 different people now who like sports say the NFL is eagerly looking for an expansion and that OKC was on a list of cities it is considering. Has anyone else heard the same thing?

The NFL would be freaking awesome to have here, but I'm not sure if OKC can support the Thunder, a possible MLS, AND NFl.

Does anyone know about cities of similar size of OKC that successfully support 3 or more pro sports teams?

I find this extremely unlikely. There are bigger/comparable markets without an NFL presence that in all likelihood would be addressed first (for a variety of reasons, some of which I'll address below):

Toronto
San Antonio
Portland
Salt Lake City
Albuquerque

To name them right off the top of my head... San Antonio and Toronto have been on the top every list that I've seen regarding this discussion, for no other reasons other than population and established Football fan bases.

Portland, Albuquerque, and SLC I could see being favored over a city like OKC. Why? Because Oklahoma is dominated by the NCAA. We have 150,000+ fans that pack two stadiums throughout the college season (well, if you want to throw in Tulsa, add on maybe another 10,000-20,000). The support just won't be there. People won't be able to afford going to both games (college-NFL), and you need a LOT of people to be able to successfully interchange weekends throughout the season.

And perhaps this might be the biggest reason OKC won't make the cut:

Dallas Cowboys
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs

All three teams have major established fanbases throughout the state. Those three teams wouldn't want a piece of their pie being taken, especially the Cowboys.

As for your other question, Kansas City is always brought up. They have MLS, NFL, MLB and one point also hosted the NBA. They've also been trying to recruit the NHL over the years with their new Sprint Center. Often it's suggested that K.C. is already over saturated with three pro teams and a population over 2,000,000, but I think that's been debunked.

As for others, I can't recall off the top of my head. Maybe Indianapolis?

Regardless, we'll continue to see these rumors and conversations pop up since we have the Thunder and have so far supported them well past the honey moon phase (about 3 seasons I think is what most people would agree to). Additionally, as long as OKC's population continues to grow at the rate it has been, a city metro of 1.5 million and growing will get nods every so often.

[Plutonic Panda]

Thanks. That seems like a very reasonable take on it.

[gopokes88]

I find this extremely unlikely. There are bigger/comparable markets without an NFL presence that in all likelihood would be addressed first (for a variety of reasons, some of which I'll address below):

Toronto
San Antonio
Portland
Salt Lake City
Albuquerque

To name them right off the top of my head... San Antonio and Toronto have been on the top every list that I've seen regarding this discussion, for no other reasons other than population and established Football fan bases.

Portland, Albuquerque, and SLC I could see being favored over a city like OKC. Why? Because Oklahoma is dominated by the NCAA. We have 150,000+ fans that pack two stadiums throughout the college season (well, if you want to throw in Tulsa, add on maybe another 10,000-20,000). The support just won't be there. People won't be able to afford going to both games (college-NFL), and you need a LOT of people to be able to successfully interchange weekends throughout the season.

And perhaps this might be the biggest reason OKC won't make the cut:

Dallas Cowboys
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Chiefs

All three teams have major established fanbases throughout the state. Those three teams wouldn't want a piece of their pie being taken, especially the Cowboys.

As for your other question, Kansas City is always brought up. They have MLS, NFL, MLB and one point also hosted the NBA. They've also been trying to recruit the NHL over the years with their new Sprint Center. Often it's suggested that K.C. is already over saturated with three pro teams and a population over 2,000,000, but I think that's been debunked.

As for others, I can't recall off the top of my head. Maybe Indianapolis?

Regardless, we'll continue to see these rumors and conversations pop up since we have the Thunder and have so far supported them well past the honey moon phase (about 3 seasons I think is what most people would agree to). Additionally, as long as OKC's population continues to grow at the rate it has been, a city metro of 1.5 million and growing will get nods every so often.

Albuquerque couldn't support an NFL team they don't have any corporate money whatsoever. Not a single Fortune 500 company is located in the state much less ABQ. Largest company in ABQ? PNM, the power company. They can't even get UNM into the big 12 much less a pro team. ABQ is also a stronghold for Broncos and Cowboys fans. There's probably more Bronco or Cowboys fans in ABQ then OKC, as the market is basically split 2 ways.

Portland is a 49ers and Seahawks strong hold, if they even care. Portland isn't what I would call a big sports town.

San Antonio could support a team and it would do well. But how are you going to get a TV network to shell out some extra money for a market that the Cowboys and Texans already have and dominate.

SLC is same as SA. Are the TV partners leaping for joy to be in a market they'll barely grow ratings in? No.

Toronto is interesting, but if you follow football in that area you love the Bills. It would be a very long term play to grow the market in all of Canada which has some size, but always second fiddle to hockey.

Las Vegas is a good market but the gambling issue and it's touristy.

That leaves LA, and London. LA is so massive TV partners will like it. London opens up 13.9 million people and a country with 53 million. That's what gets TV partners excited.

Everyone here underestimates how big the NFL is. There isn't much room left for the NFL to grow in the states.

[bchris02]

I think OKC is a viable NFL market but it needs to be a little larger before it will happen. Once the metro area gets up closer to 2 million it won't surprise me if there is serious interest.

[jerrywall]

Re: London....

I think the games they do there are oddities, and works somewhat for American Viewers. And that's really what it's about. More hours of football. So occasionally flying out two american teams for a special game? Great. You get a really long day of football for Americans to watch. And yeah, I know the in stadium attendance is good, but I think because of the limited opportunities for Brits to see American Football in person.

But to watch it on tv? Well, talk to any transplant. They tend to hate it. "Commercials? Why are they showing commercials during the game?" Rugby is faster, non-stop action, with (sorry fellow NFL fans) better officiating.

I grew up with Sunday Football and Monday Night Football. So not hating on it from me. But it would take a lot to convince Brits its a superior product to Rugby or Soccer. And they don't have the Football culture to have home grown players to get excited about. How many of us watch an NFL team partly because a former Sooner or Cowboy is on it?

And I can't even imagine the number of deportations that would occur. And the cultural clashes of our players in residence in London? TMZ would need to open a branch office there as well.

[Swake]

Re: London....

I think the games they do there are oddities, and works somewhat for American Viewers. And that's really what it's about. More hours of football. So occasionally flying out two american teams for a special game? Great. You get a really long day of football for Americans to watch. And yeah, I know the in stadium attendance is good, but I think because of the limited opportunities for Brits to see American Football in person.

But to watch it on tv? Well, talk to any transplant. They tend to hate it. "Commercials? Why are they showing commercials during the game?" Rugby is faster, non-stop action, with (sorry fellow NFL fans) better officiating.

I grew up with Sunday Football and Monday Night Football. So not hating on it from me. But it would take a lot to convince Brits its a superior product to Rugby or Soccer. And they don't have the Football culture to have home grown players to get excited about. How many of us watch an NFL team partly because a former Sooner or Cowboy is on it?

And I can't even imagine the number of deportations that would occur. And the cultural clashes of our players in residence in London? TMZ would need to open a branch office there as well.

The Jags have been rumored for some time to be going to London, as in the NFL is pushing them there. The NFL is fully on board with at least one London team.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...-forward-in-uk

First the NFL needs to be in LA. But that is getting fixed, fast, LA is going to have 2-3 teams probably as soon as next year, with the Rams, Chargers and Raiders looking to move there. Oakland may also move to San Antonio or down the bay to Santa Clara and share the 49rs new stadium.

The NFL IS likely to expand soon, but it's going to first have to replace teams in large markets losing them to LA. St Louis is going to get a team back. San Diego likely will too, both are large markets with long standing NFL success, the move to LA has nothing to do with problems in those markets, it's all a cash grab.

After that, the NFL is going international. If the Jags don't move, London will likely be an expansion team, maybe even in addition to the Jags. After London, maybe with London, comes Toronto. They want a team too and tried to get the Bills already. Toronto is a wealthy city with nearly six million people and will develop a following throughout Canada.

[Laramie]

I think OKC is a viable NFL market but it needs to be a little larger before it will happen. Once the metro area gets up closer to 2 million it won't surprise me if there is serious interest.

Let's see what the Metro population of OKC will be in 2020:

Oklahoma City is expected to continue its healthy grow into the future, reaching 1.5 million in its metropolitan area by 2020.

Oklahoma City Population 2015 - World Population Review

NFL expansion/relocation criteria--requires capital:

NFL relocation fee: $500-$600 million (doesn't include franchise value)
NFL expansion fee: $1.1 - $1.2 billion

1. Ownership
2. Facilities: (Stadium: temporary facility and eventually long-term facility)
3. Market: Population, TV households

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_Areas
http://www.tvb.org/media/file/2015-2016-dma-ranks.pdf

When Charlotte & Nashville entered the NFL:

Charlotte: NBA Hornets 1988–2002, NBA Bobcats 2004–2014; NBA Hornets 2014–present.

NFL expansion Carolina Panthers - 1996--present
Charlotte's population 1990 - 1,162,093; 2000 -1,499,293; 2010 - 2,217,012
NFL & NHL began its coexistence in 1996: Charlotte Metro area population 1,321,068

Nashville: NHL Predators - 1998--present; NFL Tennessee Titans 1999 (Tennessee Oilers played in Memphis 1997-98 before temporary location to Vanderbilt Stadium in Nashville.

NFL & NHL began its coexistence in 1998; Nashville Metro area population 1,182,054Nashville's population: 1990 - 985,026 - 2000 - 1,231,311 - 2010 - 1,670,890

Oklahoma City: NBA Thunder 2008-09--present

Oklahoma City Metro area population in 2008 - 1,207,519
Oklahoma City's population: 2000 - 1,083,346 - 2010 - 1,252,987; current estimate: 1,336,767

Nearest NFL markets in proximity of the Oklahoma City-Tulsa market (NFL has a drawing area of 150 mile radius) :

1. Dallas Cowboys 192 miles
2. Kansas City Chiefs 300 miles
3. Houston Texans 412 miles
4. St. Louis Cardinals 457 miles
5. Denver Broncos 501 miles
6. New Orleans Saints 577 miles

[Snowman]

The Jags have been rumored for some time to be going to London, as in the NFL is pushing them there. The NFL is fully on board with at least one London team.

London team by 2022? NFL continues to forge forward in U.K. - NFL.com

First the NFL needs to be in LA. But that is getting fixed, fast, LA is going to have 2-3 teams probably as soon as next year, with the Rams, Chargers and Raiders looking to move there. Oakland may also move to San Antonio or down the bay to Santa Clara and share the 49rs new stadium.

The NFL IS likely to expand soon, but it's going to first have to replace teams in large markets losing them to LA. St Louis is going to get a team back. San Diego likely will too, both are large markets with long standing NFL success, the move to LA has nothing to do with problems in those markets, it's all a cash grab.

After that, the NFL is going international. If the Jags don't move, London will likely be an expansion team, maybe even in addition to the Jags. After London, maybe with London, comes Toronto. They want a team too and tried to get the Bills already. Toronto is a wealthy city with nearly six million people and will develop a following throughout Canada.

LA has been better collectively for all the owners as a threat to get public money for stadiums than it could ever be with a team, most of the relocation rumors are much more about getting them money than actually moving, it is the teams strongest card in negotiation. Sure it happens once in a while but the last time was almost twenty years ago and almost every new stadium built or heavily renovated in the last forty years has some threat to leave at some point. London, Toronto or other foreign cities might work ok in that threat area but It seems unlikely to actually happen any time soon.

[Plutonic Panda]

Let's see what the Metro population of OKC will be in 2020:



Oklahoma City Population 2015 - World Population Review

NFL expansion/relocation criteria--requires capital:

NFL relocation fee: $500-$600 million (doesn't include franchise value)
NFL expansion fee: $1.1 - $1.2 billion

1. Ownership
2. Facilities: (Stadium: temporary facility and eventually long-term facility)
3. Market: Population, TV households

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_Areas
http://www.tvb.org/media/file/2015-2016-dma-ranks.pdf

When Charlotte & Nashville entered the NFL:

Charlotte: NBA Hornets 1988–2002, NBA Bobcats 2004–2014; NBA Hornets 2014–present.

NFL expansion Carolina Panthers - 1996--present
Charlotte's population 1990 - 1,162,093; 2000 -1,499,293; 2010 - 2,217,012
NFL & NHL began its coexistence in 1996: Charlotte Metro area population 1,321,068

Nashville: NHL Predators - 1998--present; NFL Tennessee Titans 1999 (Tennessee Oilers played in Memphis 1997-98 before temporary location to Vanderbilt Stadium in Nashville.

NFL & NHL began its coexistence in 1998; Nashville Metro area population 1,182,054Nashville's population: 1990 - 985,026 - 2000 - 1,231,311 - 2010 - 1,670,890

Oklahoma City: NBA Thunder 2008-09--present

Oklahoma City Metro area population in 2008 - 1,207,519
Oklahoma City's population: 2000 - 1,083,346 - 2010 - 1,252,987; current estimate: 1,336,767

Nearest NFL markets in proximity of the Oklahoma City-Tulsa market (NFL has a drawing area of 150 mile radius) :

1. Dallas Cowboys 192 miles
2. Kansas City Chiefs 300 miles
3. Houston Texans 412 miles
4. St. Louis Cardinals 457 miles
5. Denver Broncos 501 miles
6. New Orleans Saints 577 miles

Keep in mind, the pop. estimates rely on steady growth and I believe OKC is going to hit a big boom pretty soon so I'd expect the population growth to surprise a lot of people.

[gopokes88]

You guys are dreaming. We aren't getting an nfl team.

[bradh]

No on Toronto, too close to both Detroit and Buffalo.

[Bunty]

You guys are dreaming. We aren't getting an nfl team.

Was that what you or others were saying 10-15 years ago about OKC getting a pro basketball team?

[Bunty]

I think OKC is a viable NFL market but it needs to be a little larger before it will happen. Once the metro area gets up closer to 2 million it won't surprise me if there is serious interest.

Will OKC taxpayers be seriously interested in helping to pay the cost to build a NFL stadium?