Cuts in air service stifling midsize cities

[KenRagsdale]

Cuts in air service stifling midsized cities

[no1cub17]

Not sure why this needs it's own thread? And it doesn't really refer to OKC...

[KenRagsdale]

Oklahoma City is roughly the size of many of the cities in the article. What has befallen them, and their ability to attract economic development, could befall Oklahoma City if not vigilant.

[venture]

Many of those cities are in higher density areas where the number of airports is greater in a smaller area than here. OKC has TUL and DFW/DAL to compete against...but really those aren't huge competitors. A 3 hour drive to DFW/DAL isn't common place (not saying people don't do it). A drive to TUL is pointless since much of the service is the same.

[bluedogok]

I know of people in Austin who drive to San Antonio to fly at times, mostly it is driven by the flights and times available from either airport. At one time you couldn't do a day round trip to El Paso from Austin and you could from San Antonio. Situations like that drove it more than pricing because it is close to the same price to fly out of either for most flights.

[no1cub17]

Oklahoma City is roughly the size of many of the cities in the article. What has befallen them, and their ability to attract economic development, could befall Oklahoma City if not vigilant.

OKC was never a hub a la STL, MEM, CVG, so not really a fair comparison. As long as the economy in OKC continues to do well, we'll attract more air service. If not more destinations, at least more frequencies.

[ou48A]

There are decent numbers of people from Norman / OU who drive to DFW to catch a cheaper and often more direct flight.

[catch22]

There are decent numbers of people from Norman / OU who drive to DFW to catch a cheaper and often more direct flight.

And that is a big problem. With the airlines you have to prove you can fill what they give you before they give you more. We won't gain without filling what we have, and if we are sending people to Dallas we will continue to lose out.

[no1cub17]

And that is a big problem. With the airlines you have to prove you can fill what they give you before they give you more. We won't gain without filling what we have, and if we are sending people to Dallas we will continue to lose out.

Not sure how true that is. Most flights out of OKC have pretty healthy loads - and probably even better yields (which are far more important to airlines than loads). If college kids want to drive to DFW to save a few bucks, the airlines are probably okay with that. I would've done that when I was younger as well. Now I'm at a point where I'll pay for the convenience of flying out of OKC. Does it cost more? Absolutely, but I'm willing to pay for it.

[ou48A]

With the lay overs that you sometimes have flying out of OKC the more direct flights out of DFW can sometimes make it worth the drive from a time stand point,,,, but particularly if your saving a few hundred dollars with 2 or more people.

[catch22]

Not sure how true that is. Most flights out of OKC have pretty healthy loads - and probably even better yields (which are far more important to airlines than loads). If college kids want to drive to DFW to save a few bucks, the airlines are probably okay with that. I would've done that when I was younger as well. Now I'm at a point where I'll pay for the convenience of flying out of OKC. Does it cost more? Absolutely, but I'm willing to pay for it.

While I won't share the number I saw from my company, leaking to DFW is a significant factor my company takes into consideration.

[adaniel]

I would be interested to see how much leakage there is from Birmingham or Greenville SC to Atlanta, or Indianapolis to Chicago. It wouldn't surprise me if its pretty similar.

This is completely anecdotal on my part, but I can honestly say I have never known anyone from the immediate OKC metro area drive to DFW to fly domestically. I do know a few however, who have flown overseas to go to DFW, where a long layover is likely. Also, even though it is technically our market, I would guess and say folks south of, say, Pauls Valley, probably just make the drive to DFW since a trip to OKC is only about 45 minutes shorter.

[adaniel]

There are decent numbers of people from Norman / OU who drive to DFW to catch a cheaper and often more direct flight.

How many of those kids are already from the DFW area? Remember about 35% of OU undergrads are from TX. The ironic thing is on my flight to Philly via Atlanta from OKC this past May, I sat across the aisle from Cindy Rosethal.

[bluedogok]

I would be interested to see how much leakage there is from Birmingham or Greenville SC to Atlanta, or Indianapolis to Chicago. It wouldn't surprise me if its pretty similar.

This is completely anecdotal on my part, but I can honestly say I have never known anyone from the immediate OKC metro area drive to DFW to fly domestically. I do know a few however, who have flown overseas to go to DFW, where a long layover is likely. Also, even though it is technically our market, I would guess and say folks south of, say, Pauls Valley, probably just make the drive to DFW since a trip to OKC is only about 45 minutes shorter.

Most that I have known who do it frequently are flying to Mexico, a few have done it on domestic flights but there are usually other things planned in Dallas before or after the trip. I know when I was working in Dallas out of Austin the company booked most of my flights out of DFW so I had to drive up for that, the main reason was the cost of flying out of Austin and travel time.

[no1cub17]

Most that I have known who do it frequently are flying to Mexico, a few have done it on domestic flights but there are usually other things planned in Dallas before or after the trip. I know when I was working in Dallas out of Austin the company booked most of my flights out of DFW so I had to drive up for that, the main reason was the cost of flying out of Austin and travel time.

I have to say - I've never ever heard of a business traveler being forced to drive 3+ hours to fly for a business trip. That's a bit crazy to ask an employee to do that. I have many friends who fly for business and usually an employer values an employee's time too much to ask them to do that. Plus the fact that businesses are buying tickets closer to the date of departure which are almost always more expensive anyway.

Back on topic, this leakage problem certainly isn't unique to OKC. I grew up in southwest Michigan and we often drove to ORD or DTW as a family (2-3 hours) to save a few hundred bucks, especially if flying to India. It's never going to go away. DFW is in a whole different league than OKC, much more competition - so fares will occasionally be low enough to justify that hassle for a lot of people.

[bluedogok]

I have to say - I've never ever heard of a business traveler being forced to drive 3+ hours to fly for a business trip. That's a bit crazy to ask an employee to do that. I have many friends who fly for business and usually an employer values an employee's time too much to ask them to do that. Plus the fact that businesses are buying tickets closer to the date of departure which are almost always more expensive anyway.

Back on topic, this leakage problem certainly isn't unique to OKC. I grew up in southwest Michigan and we often drove to ORD or DTW as a family (2-3 hours) to save a few hundred bucks, especially if flying to India. It's never going to go away. DFW is in a whole different league than OKC, much more competition - so fares will occasionally be low enough to justify that hassle for a lot of people.

It had to do with the contracts they were working under, it covered flights from Dallas. The company that was contracting us for the work I was less than impressed with on a whole bunch of levels. For other projects I flew out of Austin.

[bchris02]

Smaller, non-hub airports generally have higher fares and suffer a problem with leakage. When I lived in Little Rock, it was common for people to just drive to Memphis rather than fly out of Little Rock. However, I doubt leakage to DFW is as big of a factor as you would think for OKC. Most airport traffic is business rather than leisure/vacations and businesses aren't going to fly their employees to DFW and make them take a bus to OKC. I think proximity to Tulsa is more of a factor. Tulsa's airport is almost as large as OKC's. Because of that, unless your destination is in the immediate OKC metro area, there is no reason to fly in or out of OKC. Southern Oklahoma goes to DFW, and northern/eastern Oklahoma goes to Tulsa.

[mugofbeer]

Since I dont live in OKC, this article has made me curious. Recently there was a new route added to Orlando. If I recall, the flight was soon eliminated due to lack of business. When an airline adds a new destination, is the airline setting a good price or do they try to charge a monopoly fare that guarantees failure?

[Mel]

The only way all the cities that think themselves worthy to get good service is through Government subsidies. Right back to Gov regulation of the airline industry.

[venture]

Since I dont live in OKC, this article has made me curious. Recently there was a new route added to Orlando. If I recall, the flight was soon eliminated due to lack of business. When an airline adds a new destination, is the airline setting a good price or do they try to charge a monopoly fare that guarantees failure?

The new flight to Sanford (Orlando) is on Allegiant and no, the route hasn't been eliminated.

Most airlines enter a market expected it to perform with in 12 months. Allegiant is a different animal where if pre-sales are weak before they start, they'll kill the route - case in point was Wichita Falls to Las Vegas a few years back. Airlines aren't going to come in to gouge people, but they are going to expect a profit. The problem is most people still think that it is profitable to fly coast to coast for $99.

[venture]

As far as Dallas leakage, I can't comment on what Catch knows I can only go off of what Karen at the airport sent me. Their view is that leakage to Dallas isn't a major issue at all and isn't worth studying. Take it for what it's worth.

[johnnyhooper]

Since I dont live in OKC, this article has made me curious. Recently there was a new route added to Orlando. If I recall, the flight was soon eliminated due to lack of business. When an airline adds a new destination, is the airline setting a good price or do they try to charge a monopoly fare that guarantees failure?

Not sure about pricing in general, but Allegiant Air still has the nonstop OKC-Orlando (Sanford) route, I believe. It doesn't run every day. It is more for vacationers and not business. It is dirt cheap.
WRWA > CITIES SERVED NONSTOP
Allegiant Air
Airline Begins Non-Stop Service Between OKC, Orlando - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[ljbab728]

As far as Dallas leakage, I can't comment on what Catch knows I can only go off of what Karen at the airport sent me. Their view is that leakage to Dallas isn't a major issue at all and isn't worth studying. Take it for what it's worth.

Venture, that issue has been discussed here several times in the past and, as someone who has dealt with this every day for many years, I agree with Karen. The percent of business travelers that I deal with who would drive to DFW is zero.

[no1cub17]

Venture, that issue has been discussed here several times in the past and, as someone who has dealt with this everyday for many years, I agree with Karen. The percent of business travelers that I deal with who would drive to DFW is zero.

Exactly!!!! And business travelers are the ones airlines not named allegiant care about the most, not the once or twice a year bargain shopper. As I've said, if anyone is actually willing to drive 3+ hours and deal with dallas traffic to save a few bucks, go right ahead.

[ou48A]

How many of those kids are already from the DFW area? Remember about 35% of OU undergrads are from TX. The ironic thing is on my flight to Philly via Atlanta from OKC this past May, I sat across the aisle from Cindy Rosethal.

A lot of OU kids do come from the DFW area, but some that don't come from that area stay with those who do, the night before an early morning flight.

While it may not be a great amount I would be willing to bet that there are more people driving to DFW from Oklahoma to catch flights than a lot of OKC officials would be willing to admit.