Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

[damonsmuz]

I may be in the minority but I love the Mad dogs. I was in a Cessna 210, holding short while an MD-80 took off... talk about a nice punch in the gut.

Im totally down w/ flying an MD anytime, Im a simple dude.. I don't need IFE

[damonsmuz]

From my understanding (thanks to a.net) I see that AA's initial release of the E-175 schedule does not include OKC. I read that the -700 is being removed from ORD-OKC? Any one know why? what the replacement will be, etc?

If the plane size is decreased will AA add additional flights to ORD? Whoever here can find a breakdown on total seats being exchanged here that would be cool.

[venture]

Geez is everyone an anetter? :-P

The main thing going on with Eagle right now is that the CR7s are being reallocated out of ORD so the 175s can go in there. The trick is that LAX is still done with the ORD based CR7s so it will be interesting to see how they handle it. I have a feeling OKC-ORD will eventually go to 175s at some point, but we could see it go back to all 145s. I'm not sure that'll be the case since I doubt they want to pull first class from the market.

CR7 on Eagle seat 65 in a 2-class layout, so we would see a decline of 15 seats if they replaced it with the 145.

[catch22]

Eff 27Aug13 LAX-AA will reduce back to 2 daily. Prob related to shuffling capacity around for E75 intro and to fund other LAX expansion.

[catch22]

And United is moving the LAX flight to a 450P dep on 28Aug and reducing to 1 daily. Inbound flight arrives OKC 540p.

[catch22]

28aug-wed-see sna/ont for lax alt. Alternate service
1aa3708* okclax 645a 750a cr7 0 305\
2aa3798* okclax 230p 335p cr7 0 305\
3ua6535 okclax 450p 603p cr7 0 313\

[no1cub17]

Eff 27Aug13 LAX-AA will reduce back to 2 daily. Prob related to shuffling capacity around for E75 intro and to fund other LAX expansion.

Hmm, or "seasonal" reduction? Although LA doesn't really have seasons...

[no1cub17]

Disagreement is fine, I love a good argument. But saying my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt is fairly insulting for one who "lives" for this industry. I wake up at 3am every day for this industry. I have worked 41 of the past 42 days for this industry.

And, ljbab, I still stand by my statement made prior about Oklahoma having a large subset of people who do not fly. Of course you would be unfamiliar with them, because they never contact you or show up on the "Radar". The people who do fly contact you, the people who don't never will. I don't have any set of statistics to prove this, because it is impossible to prove because the people who do not fly...simply do not show up in any statistic.

But from my observations as a citizen over the years with friends and family across the state, I can say the amount of people who do not fly is quite striking. I have two sets of unrelated friends, who drive to LA every year for vacation respectively. I asked each why they don't fly, the answer was it was "cheaper to drive."

My brother's wife's parents, they make a considerable amount of money each year. They go to the lake for vacation. I run into people all of the time in there 20s from around here, who always mention to me when they find out what I do, "That's so cool, I have never been on an airplane before...what's it like?". My ex-girlfriend who I dated last year, had never flown on an airplane before she had met me. Her family wasn't poor, neither are a lot of the people I am referencing in this post.

I have a broad range of friends and acquaintances that I can confidently say is a decent cross-section of the OKC metro population. I can also confidently say, there is a larger than average subset of the OKC metro population who do not fly for vacation. Or do not fly often at all.

OKC has a 1.3 million metro, yet we are surpassed by many smaller metros on passenger totals. We have a booming economy, lots of extra expendable money in the pockets of the metro, yet travel is still flat. The amount of new shiny Ford F250 super crew pickups with a nice shiny 25 foot boat on a trailer, seems to be increasing.

The creative class tends to travel more, the more educated a population is, the more the population travels.

This is a month later, but I see where you're coming from now. My perspective is definitely skewed, being from out of state and flying (out of necessity) several times a year just to see my parents. And having grown up going to India pretty regularly to see the extended fam - being used to that makes it hard to believe that people can go through their lives without setting foot in an airplane. But you're right it happens quite regularly. I just like to pretend people like that don't exist

[rayhurst]

I just noticed that AA will be flying CRJ200 and 145's on at least 2 of the DFW-OKC flights starting in mid June. I have been an EXP for the last several years and a big reason is I have always been guaranteed mainline between DFW and OKC. It has really been the only carrier outside of SWA that I could reasonably expect to stay off RJs. I have no idea is this is temporary, part of the E175 shuffle or what, but it's a little disappointing to see RJs pop up on the route.

[venture]

I just noticed that AA will be flying CRJ200 and 145's on at least 2 of the DFW-OKC flights starting in mid June. I have been an EXP for the last several years and a big reason is I have always been guaranteed mainline between DFW and OKC. It has really been the only carrier outside of SWA that I could reasonably expect to stay off RJs. I have no idea is this is temporary, part of the E175 shuffle or what, but it's a little disappointing to see RJs pop up on the route.

Why disappointing? These are ADDITIONAL frequencies. They aren't replacing any of the existing 7 daily MD-80s.

[HangryHippo]

Eff 27Aug13 LAX-AA will reduce back to 2 daily. Prob related to shuffling capacity around for E75 intro and to fund other LAX expansion.

So OKC-LAX is going to the Embraer 175s? Are all of AA's CRJs from OKC going to be focused on ORD now?

[catch22]

So OKC-LAX is going to the Embraer 175s? Are all of AA's CRJs from OKC going to be focused on ORD now?

No, capacity around the AA system is being shuffled around. ORD/CRJ7's are being moved to LGA/JFK operation. The capacity has a domino effect, you have to pull flight time hours from other lines to fund expansions elsewhere. ORD capacity (where the LAX CRJ7 lines are flown from) is being moved out of ORD. E175's are backfilling CRJ7 capacity directly from ORD trips. As the E175 fleet is small, the LAX-CRJ7 lines remain on CRJ7's and are still flown from the reduced "shelf" of CRJ7 capacity.

Instead of having 20 oranges in ORD to split between ORD and LAX, there are now 15 oranges in ORD.

[catch22]

I just noticed that AA will be flying CRJ200 and 145's on at least 2 of the DFW-OKC flights starting in mid June. I have been an EXP for the last several years and a big reason is I have always been guaranteed mainline between DFW and OKC. It has really been the only carrier outside of SWA that I could reasonably expect to stay off RJs. I have no idea is this is temporary, part of the E175 shuffle or what, but it's a little disappointing to see RJs pop up on the route.

It's also noteworthy that more mainline on AA would be present, but their contract requires mainline ground staff at a station with at minimum 8 daily mainline departures. If they added one more mainline on any route, their daily average would be 8 and would require insourcing the work.

[HangryHippo]

It's also noteworthy that more mainline on AA would be present, but their contract requires mainline ground staff at a station with at minimum 8 daily mainline departures. If they added one more mainline on any route, their daily average would be 8 and would require insourcing the work.

Surely at some point they'll have to mainline at least one other route...

[rayhurst]

Why disappointing? These are ADDITIONAL frequencies. They aren't replacing any of the existing 7 daily MD-80s.

Good point, I had thought they were replacing MD-80's but they are additional. And I did not realize that about maintaining less than 8 mainline departures to not have AA ground crew. The truth is I'd much rather them maintain their frequencies to DFW and add a CR7 to JFK/LGA or MIA to pickup better connection options or add a new destination.

[rayhurst]

It's also noteworthy that more mainline on AA would be present, but their contract requires mainline ground staff at a station with at minimum 8 daily mainline departures. If they added one more mainline on any route, their daily average would be 8 and would require insourcing the work.

By the way, do you know if that part of their contract was changed during bankruptcy? (not sure if you meant their union contract, but that what I assumed)

[catch22]

By the way, do you know if that part of their contract was changed during bankruptcy? (not sure if you meant their union contract, but that what I assumed)

Fairly certain it is unchanged, but not 100% sure.

[catch22]

The A/C scheduled to run the 3rd OKC-LAX for AA was moved to open the LAX-XNA market.

[no1cub17]

It's also noteworthy that more mainline on AA would be present, but their contract requires mainline ground staff at a station with at minimum 8 daily mainline departures. If they added one more mainline on any route, their daily average would be 8 and would require insourcing the work.

Did not know that - possibly explains why we'll never see mainline back on OKC-ORD again. That and the market seems to have right-sized itself with the infusion of 76-seaters. Is it safe to assume we'll the E75 on the ORD route eventually once more of them come online and the initial destinations get them first?

[venture]

Southwest will be adding 2 daily nonstop flights to Atlanta starting in November.

[catch22]

Southwest will be adding 2 daily nonstop flights to Atlanta starting in November.

Interesting, these are on 717's under the FL code.

22NOV-FRI- ALTERNATE SERVICE\
1FL1051 OKCATL 600A 855A 717 0 155\
2FL1783 OKCATL 330P 625P 717 0 155\

22NOV-FRI- ALTERNATE SERVICE\
1FL 683 ATLOKC 810A 929A 717 0 219\
2FL1141 ATLOKC 440P 601P 717 0 221\ >

[venture]

It'll be nice to see the 717 in OKC again...last ones here were on TWA to STL.

[catch22]

Okay, I nailed down the schedule. These 717's will be used for MDW and ATL.

I knew the flight times were too "loose" for just ATL service.

22NOV-FRI- ALTERNATE SERVICE\
1FL 685 MDWOKC 1240P 245P 717 0 205\
2FL 490 MDWOKC 725P 935P 717 0 210\ >

22NOV-FRI- ALTERNATE SERVICE\
1FL 683 OKCMDW 1005A 1200N 717 0 155\
2FL1141 OKCMDW 640P 835P 717 0 155\ >

[venture]

The full WN schedule should be loaded tomorrow night and be line Monday morning, so we'll be able to tell if anything else gets changed.

I am a little concerned on the 717 going to MDW since those flights tend to do pretty well, but they need to keep them moving. Some people will get spoiled by the business class though I feel.

[catch22]

It probably has to do with a larger network perspective of placing the higher capacity airplanes where they truly need it. OKC-CHI is not lacking in service by any means.