Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

[catch22]

I agree. The master plan calls for all runways to be 10k or greater. (Except the very distant in the future new west parallel runway).

The two current N/S would be 12k, and 13/31 would be extended to 10k.

[OUman]

^Should the air cargo industry revitalize in the future and the extension to 12,000 feet of the parallel runways come at the perfect time, that would be very attractive to any major or up-and-coming cargo carrier to set up a hub here. Especially with our almost perfectly central geographic location.

All very speculative (and mostly wishful) thinking, but who knows right?

[venture]

^Should the air cargo industry revitalize in the future and the extension to 12,000 feet of the parallel runways come at the perfect time, that would be very attractive to any major or up-and-coming cargo carrier to set up a hub here. Especially with our almost perfectly central geographic location.

All very speculative (and mostly wishful) thinking, but who knows right?

Probably wishful thinking.

One of the key things with an air cargo hub is normally you need some sort of local demand as well. Geography can only go so far. There are also a ton of available former cargo hubs that a carrier can move into without having to foot the bill for a new facility.

[OUman]

^That's why I said

"All very speculative (and mostly wishful) thinking..."

Yes, a cargo hub requires some amount of local demand, just like a passenger hub does.

[Plutonic Panda]

Certain knives were approved by the TSA. Seems strange, but I'm sure they know what they're doing.

OKC Airport Warns Against Knives Following TSA Announcement - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Edit: Come to think of it, I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this or not.

[catch22]

Smaller than 2.36 inches only.

[venture]

Southwest will be cutting back to only 4 daily flights to Dallas Love this fall. Not sure if this is just a seasonal reduction.

A lot of speculation out there right now that once the Wright Amendment passes, this route will be cut completely. It is currently the weakest performing O&D route of Dallas for Southwest. It is also now one of the shortest in the entire network, something they've been trimming back on.

[catch22]

Looks like that cut actually begins in June.

[venture]

Looks like that cut actually begins in June.

That it does. I was looking too far out. Looking at the schedule on June 2nd...

BWI - 1
MDW - 2
DAL - 4
DEN - 3
HOU - 4
MCI - 2 (Already announced ending in August)
LAS - 2
PHX - 2
STL - 2

So a total of 22 daily flights soon to drop to 20.

[OUman]

^Hmm, O&D in terms of yields or just passengers? I actually thought most of the DAL traffic was connecting anyway, so once the Wright Amendment goes out of effect wouldn't it make more sense to have people connecting at DAL to even more airports? Especially with the new 25 gate terminal opening down there next year (which of course, happens to be in conjunction with the WA going out of effect). Of course if it were completely shut down, that would give AA the monopoly between the Metro and the Metroplex. We still have a fair amount of people flying between both areas.

As for the shortest Southwest route, I think at the moment it is between AUS and HOU (an average of just 30 minutes each way from takeoff to landing).

[venture]

^Hmm, actually once the Wright Amendment goes out of effect wouldn't it make more sense to have people connecting at DAL to even more airports? Especially with the new 25 gate terminal opening down there next year (which of course, happens to be in conjunction with the WA going out of effect). Of course if it were completely shut down, that would give AA the monopoly between the Metro and the Metroplex. We still have a fair amount of people flying between both areas.

Keep in mind that WN will only have 16 of the 20 (not 25) gates in that terminal. So based on their current gate utilization at DAL (9.9 flts/day) that would put them around 160 flights total. That would give them room to add quite a bit of direct flights to other cities. Right now they are at 19 cities and I wouldn't be shocked if it jumps to over 40 destinations. So it then comes down to where do you get the aircraft and also is it better to pull down some of the current DAL routes to allow for better gate space.

For me, I would think that OKC-DAL would remain in some fashion to keep connecting traffic through DAL. However, WN will always look at local O&D first before connecting traffic. OKC-DAL on WN is horrible right now when it comes to O&D. Based on the Q3 DOT stats, OKC-Dallas (both airports) is at 237 pax per day...or ~118 each way. WN controls 56% of the local market or only 66 passengers per day. Out of what will be 572 seats a day (one way), that's only 11.5%. That's not good at all. In fact a recent post on A.net compared all the WN DAL markets and OKC is the worst performing one when it comes to O&D.

I think the elimination of MDW-IND was a warning sign that the very short business hops are no longer safe. While it seems unthinkable WN would cut the flights to DAL, its not longer out of the realm of possibility.

[Video Expert]

...OKC-DAL on WN is horrible right now when it comes to O&D. Based on the Q3 DOT stats, OKC-Dallas (both airports) is at 237 pax per day...or ~118 each way. WN controls 56% of the local market or only 66 passengers per day. Out of what will be 572 seats a day (one way), that's only 11.5%. That's not good at all. In fact a recent post on A.net compared all the WN DAL markets and OKC is the worst performing one when it comes to O&D....

Do you know why or could you speculate as to the reason(s) you believe the O&D from OKC to DAL on WN is so poor? Could it be that OKC and Dallas are so close and many people choose to drive instead? Your thoughts??

[venture]

Do you know why or could you speculate as to the reason(s) you believe the O&D from OKC to DAL on WN is so poor? Could it be that OKC and Dallas are so close and many people choose to drive instead? Your thoughts??

More than likely it is the short drive. The average fare on the market is around $137 one way, so that can come into play as well. American is now up to 9 daily flights, but back last year when they were at 7 daily MD-80s they were still only getting about 52 passengers a day. That's only 5.3% of seats per day that they offered. So it definitely has to be the drive and people not wanting to deal with the airport.

I'm sure if we had something like Lakeshore Express (airline out of MI) that operates from a corporate hangar because they are a charter, and therefore avoids TSA, and allowed people to go from car to aircraft in 10 to 15 minutes...the numbers to Dallas would probably be huge. Oh for giggles say if you have a Dash 8 Q400 operator decide they wanted to run a Norman (or Wiley Post) flight to a Dallas area airport and avoid the "long" path to the gate at Will Rogers, you'd probably see very strong O&D numbers then. At that point you are competing against the car which is going to be 2.5 to 3 hour drive. The flight is already going to be about an hour from gate to gate, so you have to reduce the time spent for the remaining 1.5 to 2 hours.

[Snowman]

Between flexibility of schedule, not having to arrange transport to the airport, likely needing a car after arrival and only a marginal amount of time difference. I am surprised the number is as high as 5%.

[catch22]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Feb...nplanement.pdf

Year is starting off slow.

[OUman]

I remember someone saying a while back (I think it was skywest or someone-in one of the past air service discussion threads) that our state is not really an air-travel state. Most people here take short in-state trips or one-day drives to the neighbouring states.

[ljbab728]

I remember someone saying a while back (I think it was skywest or someone-in one of the past air service discussion threads) that our state is not really an air-travel state. Most people here take short in-state trips or one-day drives to the neighbouring states.

As someone who's been involved in the travel business for about 25 years, that's certainly news to me.

[Celebrator]

How are the loads on the WN flights to MCO? Giving the route a try in two weeks. So nice to be able to get down there n/s...cuts the travel time down so much.

[no1cub17]

As someone who's been involved in the travel business for about 25 years, that's certainly news to me.

I find that rather hard to believe too, just given our geographic location it's almost a requirement to fly anywhere, particularly if you have any sort of time crunch. Even Chicago is a freaking 11-12 hour drive away.

[venture]

How are the loads on the WN flights to MCO? Giving the route a try in two weeks. So nice to be able to get down there n/s...cuts the travel time down so much.

I've looked from time to time and it really varies. The evening inbounds seem to be really strong, but some of the outbound flights have been pretty weak. Hopefully it at least does well enough that they bring it back next year.

I find that rather hard to believe too, just given our geographic location it's almost a requirement to fly anywhere, particularly if you have any sort of time crunch. Even Chicago is a freaking 11-12 hour drive away.

I would almost think that we are talking two different customer sets. Those that are more doing the "staycation" in Oklahoma are likely those that can't afford to travel far.

[OUman]

I find that rather hard to believe too, just given our geographic location it's almost a requirement to fly anywhere, particularly if you have any sort of time crunch. Even Chicago is a freaking 11-12 hour drive away.

I said short in-state trips or one day drives to the neighbouring states. Who's talking about Chicago?

And I didn't say it, it was someone else who did. Just saying. .

[ljbab728]

I said short in-state trips or one day drives to the neighbouring states. Who's talking about Chicago?

And I didn't say it, it was someone else who did. Just saying. .

Sounds like maybe you should be taking that person's opinions with a grain of salt. LOL

[OUman]

^I'll agree with that.

[catch22]

I'll stop providing my opinion then...

[venture]

I'll stop providing my opinion then...

Don't stop because people find it easy to just throw others under the bus on an internet forum instead of taking responsibility for their own comments.

Not enough industry insiders on this board as is.