Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion 2013

[venture]

It probably has to do with a larger network perspective of placing the higher capacity airplanes where they truly need it. OKC-CHI is not lacking in service by any means.

Well Southwest is completely retooling the ATL (and FL) operation with this schedule load, so yeah it moves things around a bit. They don't have the 735s in numbers like before, so can't move those in to keep things all WN metal. OKC-Chicago definitely isn't lacking in service, but I'm speaking more from a WN load stand point. Of course this will be absorbed and just moving some people around. Also having to accommodate MCI service going away this summer as well, so that would boost the loads on STL and MDW a good deal more. Of course this won't really matter. They'll all be 737s again with in the next 18 months.

[catch22]

Well Southwest is completely retooling the ATL (and FL) operation with this schedule load, so yeah it moves things around a bit. They don't have the 735s in numbers like before, so can't move those in to keep things all WN metal. OKC-Chicago definitely isn't lacking in service, but I'm speaking more from a WN load stand point. Of course this will be absorbed and just moving some people around. Also having to accommodate MCI service going away this summer as well, so that would boost the loads on STL and MDW a good deal more. Of course this won't really matter. They'll all be 737s again with in the next 18 months.

So Southwest will still be capacity negative on the year. And it will be interesting to see if DL responds any at all.

[zookeeper]

Well Southwest is completely retooling the ATL (and FL) operation with this schedule load, so yeah it moves things around a bit. They don't have the 735s in numbers like before, so can't move those in to keep things all WN metal. OKC-Chicago definitely isn't lacking in service, but I'm speaking more from a WN load stand point. Of course this will be absorbed and just moving some people around. Also having to accommodate MCI service going away this summer as well, so that would boost the loads on STL and MDW a good deal more. Of course this won't really matter. They'll all be 737s again with in the next 18 months.

Hi Venture, I bolded something I am curious about. Did I miss something? Going away? I went back in the thread but obviously not far enough. Thanks!

[venture]

Hi Venture, I bolded something I am curious about. Did I miss something? Going away? I went back in the thread but obviously not far enough. Thanks!

Announced in February. August 11th will be the end of MCI nonstops.

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...tml#post615243

[venture]

So Southwest will still be capacity negative on the year. And it will be interesting to see if DL responds any at all.

I haven't worked the numbers, but I think overall it will be pretty neutral as a station with the MCO service off setting the loss in seats to MCO and MCI. It'll be close though. Overall, I'm not heart broken to see MCI go and glad MDW went to 2 daily and ATL is coming on board.

Next year I think could be rocky with DAL getting scaled back as they stop one-stopping flights here.

[zookeeper]

Announced in February. August 11th will be the end of MCI nonstops.

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...tml#post615243

Thanks for the link back for me to read. I don't know how I missed that and I'm surprised. I remember a day when Southwest flew several non-stops a day to KC, going to zero is really surprising. Thanks again.

[ou48A]

After checking around the internet for the cheapest airfares I can find for 2 adult passengers it appears that Southwest airlines has the cheapest fares for my destination which is South Bend In this early fall.
However there are very large flight price differences with in a fairly easy driving distance of OKC.

I was hoping that someone could please adequately explain why OKC and even Tulsa were significantly higher priced than some of these other nearby cities even when I change the dates. It seems like we are being charged more than other nearby city’s… Or is this perception wrong?

The cheapest airfare for 2 from OKC TO MDW on SWA at the time I would like to travel is $721.20 with stops. The cheapest airfare for 2 during the entire month of September on Southwest airlines from OKC to MWD is not much less at $683.60

These are for round trip with 2 passengers

Tulsa to MDW $614.40 with one stop and one plane change.
Branson, MO to MDW $348.60 nonstop
ICT 395.60 to MDW nonstop
Dallas to MDW $469.20 with stops and 1 plane changes

Also, I’m willing to drive to ICT or DAL but since I’m haven’t flown anywhere in several years any tips on cheaper and more convenient air travel to the final destination would be appreciated.
Thanks

[catch22]

High prices are not a bad thing, it means airlines actually make money here and means we are higher up on the list for expansion.

Also don't buy tickets for September in May...

September is a traditionally dead month, and deep discount fares go live in july and august for sept oct.

[venture]

Like Catch mentioned, wait for the fares to go on sale. WN had a pretty good sized sale a couple weeks back for the fall. They typically run through during the middle of the week. Just keep aware on those since most major airlines will match rates. Also you'll see air fares matched in some cases to the secondary markets like SBN.

Also like what was mentioned high fares aren't bad. That typically means flights are fuller, yields are strong, and people are using the services that are offered. A ton of dirt cheap tickets in markets can signify poor loads, unprofitable flying, and low market demand.

[ljbab728]

After checking around the internet for the cheapest airfares I can find for 2 adult passengers it appears that Southwest airlines has the cheapest fares for my destination which is South Bend In this early fall.
However there are very large flight price differences with in a fairly easy driving distance of OKC.

I was hoping that someone could please adequately explain why OKC and even Tulsa were significantly higher priced than some of these other nearby cities even when I change the dates. It seems like we are being charged more than other nearby city’s… Or is this perception wrong?

The cheapest airfare for 2 from OKC TO MDW on SWA at the time I would like to travel is $721.20 with stops. The cheapest airfare for 2 during the entire month of September on Southwest airlines from OKC to MWD is not much less at $683.60

These are for round trip with 2 passengers

Tulsa to MDW $614.40 with one stop and one plane change.
Branson, MO to MDW $348.60 nonstop
ICT 395.60 to MDW nonstop
Dallas to MDW $469.20 with stops and 1 plane changes

Also, I’m willing to drive to ICT or DAL but since I’m haven’t flown anywhere in several years any tips on cheaper and more convenient air travel to the final destination would be appreciated.
Thanks

A quick look at my normal reservation system found fares as low as $207.60 per person roundtrip from OKC to MDW in September. Maybe you need to change your sources.

[venture]

Quick look at the new ATL flights. The morning flight will be direct (no plane change in ATL) to Orlando and the evening flight will be direct to Washington National. WN sometimes uses these one stop flights to test the feasibility of doing nonstops.

[ou48A]

Like Catch mentioned, wait for the fares to go on sale. WN had a pretty good sized sale a couple weeks back for the fall. They typically run through during the middle of the week. Just keep aware on those since most major airlines will match rates. Also you'll see air fares matched in some cases to the secondary markets like SBN.

Also like what was mentioned high fares aren't bad. That typically means flights are fuller, yields are strong, and people are using the services that are offered. A ton of dirt cheap tickets in markets can signify poor loads, unprofitable flying, and low market demand.

High prices are not a bad thing, it means airlines actually make money here and means we are higher up on the list for expansion.

Also don't buy tickets for September in May...

September is a traditionally dead month, and deep discount fares go live in july and august for sept oct.

Thanks guys!
Those were the types of tips and responses this novice flyer wanted to see.

[venture]

EDIT...went back and pulled from December instead since the Nov Schedule changed a lot during the first few weeks.

Full Southwest schedule load is done now. Flight times can vary by day and this is for week of Dec 15th. Also added year over year change compared to December 2012.

For OKC...

ATL - 2 daily (700a, 525p) -- YOY +2
BWI - 1 daily (1235p - most days, as early as 710a on Friday) -- YOY Unchanged
MDW - 2 daily (1033a, 640p) -- YOY +1
DAL - 4 daily (735a, 130p, 325p, 710p) -- YOY -1
DEN - 3 daily (630a, 915a, 630p) -- YOY Unchanged
HOU - 4 daily (805a, 1210p, 255p, 710p) -- YOY +1
LAS - 2 daily (1125a, 400p) -- YOY Unchanged
MCI - Cancelled in August -- YOY -2
PHX - 2 daily (950a, 500p) -- YOY Unchanged
STL - 1 daily (645a) -- YOY -1


For TUL...

MDW - 1 daily -- YOY +1
DAL - 5 daily -- YOY Unch
DEN - 3 daily -- YOY Unch
HOU - 3 daily -- YOY Unch
LAS - 1 daily -- YOY Unch
PHX - 2 daily -- YOY Unch
STL - 2 daily -- YOY Unch

[catch22]

So STL is going to 1 daily.

[venture]

So STL is going to 1 daily.

Indeed. Which saddens me because I really like STL with the 25-30 minute easy connections. However, it does appear they are trying to push a good amount through ATL instead. DAL also loses a flight compared to last year. Overall WN is down 2 flights compared to 2012. Pull down on a DAL flight doesn't shock me, plus it seems they just redirected that to HOU.

We'll see how this plays out. I won't be shocked if STL goes back to 2 daily next Spring.

[no1cub17]

Thanks guys!
Those were the types of tips and responses this novice flyer wanted to see.

Did you check Frontier? AFAIK they fly DEN-SBN and are all about cheap - check their website for an OKC-DEN-SBN routing and you should find good fares too. Also have you checked Notre Dame's home football schedule - as someone above said you can generally find good weekend fares for the fall so I wouldn't buy too early, but if it's a football weekend then fares will be high no matter what so you might as well buy soon to lock in a reasonable fare.

[ou48A]

Did you check Frontier? AFAIK they fly DEN-SBN and are all about cheap - check their website for an OKC-DEN-SBN routing and you should find good fares too. Also have you checked Notre Dame's home football schedule - as someone above said you can generally find good weekend fares for the fall so I wouldn't buy too early, but if it's a football weekend then fares will be high no matter what so you might as well buy soon to lock in a reasonable fare.

Yes, actually I have checked The Notre Dame home schedule.


Providing that I can secure tickets my end destination will be watching the University of Oklahoma playing a game of American football against the University of Notre Dame.

I will check your suggestions…. but from what I understand South Bend hotel rates quadruple for a big home games and car rentals are also tough. That’s why I think I want to fly into an airport within easy driving distance.

Thank you for your response.

[LakeEffect]

Yes, actually I have checked The Notre Dame home schedule.


Providing that I can secure tickets my end destination will be watching the University of Oklahoma playing a game of American football against the University of Notre Dame.

I will check your suggestions…. but from what I understand South Bend hotel rates quadruple for a big home games and car rentals are also tough. That’s why I think I want to fly into an airport within easy driving distance.

Thank you for your response.

You are correct. Normally, I'd suggest flying into SBN, but for game day, I think you're on the right track.

[venture]

DCA slots were award to Southwest today. Not really a shock.

Regulations.gov

[venture]

So reviewing the document of the ruling, it is pretty clear why Southwest won and US Airways (and JetBlue) failed.

Main point is that the Southwest HOU-DCA application would impact more people.

Second was the low fare impact that Southwest would have. It also acknowledge JetBlue would deliver the same to JAX. However, US Airways...

In contrast, US Airways made no mention of offering low-fare service in its application, instead stating that fares would be “competitive with current OKC-Washington and OKC-Charlotte fares.” In addition, US Airways proposes to operate the route with 99-seat E-190 aircraft. This is the smallest proposed aircraft in this proceeding and would not utilize the available capacity at DCA as efficiently as the Southwest or JetBlue proposals to use 143-seat and 150-seat aircraft respectively. Moreover, US Airways’ application stated that the route may be operated from time to time by its regional affiliates, which would use even smaller aircraft. Given these factors, we do not believe the merits of US Airways’ application with respect to Section 41718(b)(5) reach those of either Southwest’s or JetBlue’s applications.

Once they reached that point they completely tossed out the US Airways application and it was down to Southwest and JetBlue. The only redeeming qualification that could have saved the OKC application was market size as preference is given to small markets. However, the DOT noted that while HOU is the 5th largest metro area in the country, it disregarded this measure because both JAX and OKC are well over million people each.

It is now US Airways' call to start the service on their own or at least the OKC-CLT service they promised to piggy back. I don't expect either (and likely never DCA) until after the AA merger is complete.

[catch22]

Shocker.

[damonsmuz]

If USAirways wanted to start the route, couldnt they technically do it? I mean, all they would have to do is subtract a flight from an existing route and move it here. Could they do that or does it not work that way?

[catch22]

Yes they could.

I'm not holding my breath but it is a possibility.

[venture]

If USAirways wanted to start the route, couldnt they technically do it? I mean, all they would have to do is subtract a flight from an existing route and move it here. Could they do that or does it not work that way?

They could do it tomorrow if they want. Like 1 of the ~10 flights they have to PHL.

[HangryHippo]

They could do it tomorrow if they want. Like 1 of the ~10 flights they have to PHL.

I am more than a little surprised that OKC doesn't have at least one flight on US Airways to one of their eastern hubs, either Philly or Charlotte or DCA.

Of course, I'd still like JetBlue to give us a chance.