Mid-trip Observations

[Just the facts]

I've been in Norman/OKC for 3 days now and here are some general observations.

1. Norman should not build one more street until they redo do every existing one in town. They are the worst streets I can ever remember driving on.

2. Main St in Norman is very well developed but they should return it to two-way traffic.

3. Downtown OKC is cool beyond my wildest dreams, except for Devon and Sandridge; they are even worse than I feared. Quote from son - why does downtown only have 1 tall building. I won't talk about sidewalk appeal.

4. Hideaway Pizza is a quality establishment. Note to self, tell them to go light on the sauce next time.

5. Best intersection in the State is Harvey and NW 3rd.

6. Second best is NE 2nd and Walnut.

7. Automobile Alley needs some HAWK systems at the corners where traffic lights don't exist. With only 2 traffic lights the cars are flying through there and there is no median to wait on.

8. Chesapeake has some serious construction going on, too bad they decided to spread it all over the southern plains.

9. The downtown grid is so nice where the old I-40 used to be I have a hard time believing OKC Boulevard is a serious consideration. I simply can't imagine how that area will ever develop if they closed all those intersections.

10. The Farmers Market building is my wife's favorite. Because of the old elevated freeway she said she never even knew it was there and she worked downtown for several years.

11. Midtown coming along nicely but could use some in-fill (but we all know that is coming)

12. Project 180 is a game changer. The two-way streets are great.

I'll follow up with some more later.

[catch22]

Just curious, but what exactly did Devon do wrong with their development? How was it worse than you feared?

Glad to hear you are enjoying your stay so far.

(I'm being genuine not sarcastic)

[kevinpate]

welcome back to the state JTF. Enjoy your stay, and stick around if you can convince the missus.

[ljbab728]

Just curious, but what exactly did Devon do wrong with their development? How was it worse than you feared?

Glad to hear you are enjoying your stay so far.

(I'm being genuine not sarcastic)

I don't want to put words in Kerry's mouth but I suspect he's unhappy because the buildings don't create enough of a street wall for him and he want's more interaction with pedestrians.

[Just the facts]

I don't want to put words in Kerry's mouth but I suspect he's unhappy because the buildings don't create enough of a street wall for him and want's more interaction with pedestrians.

That's it. Wish I had more time but there is just too much family to visit and heaven forbid I don't get to all of them. I might have to make a stealth visit

[CaptDave]

I hope your time back in OK is enjoyable JTF.

[ljbab728]

That's it. Wish I had more time but there is just too much family to visit and heaven forbid I don't get to all of them. I might have to make a stealth visit

That's getting really scary for me when I understand what you're thinking. LOL

[BoulderSooner]

I don't want to put words in Kerry's mouth but I suspect he's unhappy because the buildings don't create enough of a street wall for him and he want's more interaction with pedestrians.

which is funny .. because the entire devon complex has more interaction with pedestrians than about any other building downtown ..

[ljbab728]

which is funny .. because the entire devon complex has more interaction with pedestrians than about any other building downtown ..

While I love the complex, I don't agree with your statement.

[Bellaboo]

While I love the complex, I don't agree with your statement.

I was down there last Saturday night and the Devon complex was full of folks, inside and out. Amazing how many people were all over the ornaments getting their pictures taken. The place was crowded, couldn't have been more inviting.

[Just the facts]

Really glad to finally meet you in person tonight Kerry. You have a really nice family. And of course, my kids want to know when they will see your kids again.

Take care and soak up all this OKC awesomeness while you are here!

Thanks Sid. You have a beautiful family and we were very happy to meet all of you. Next on the agenda is snow tubing this afternoon.

[BoulderSooner]

I was down there last Saturday night and the Devon complex was full of folks, inside and out. Amazing how many people were all over the ornaments getting their pictures taken. The place was crowded, couldn't have been more inviting.

this has been my observation as well almost every day of the week

[Pete]

I completely disagree with the criticism of the Devon Complex.

I think it's absolutely fantastic on all levels and they have gone way, way out of their way to include elements that are open, unique and appealing to the general public.

I'm glad it's not built right on the sidewalk along Sheridan (although some of it is). That part borders the wide-open Myriad Gardens and compliments it in many ways. The park and various patios and open spaces serve their own purposes and are also distinctly public places.

[ljbab728]

I have not criticized the Devon complex in the least. I love it and the way it interacts with the area it is in. I just commented that I disagreed that it has more interaction with pedestrian traffic than any area downtown and I still believe that.

[MDot]

I have not criticized the Devon complex in the least. I love it and the way it interacts with the area it is in. I just commented that I disagreed that it has more interaction with pedestrian traffic than any area downtown and I still believe that.

If I had to take a guess, I would say that Pete is talking more about Kerry's comments than he is yours. Just a guess though, I may be wrong.

[Bellaboo]

I have not criticized the Devon complex in the least. I love it and the way it interacts with the area it is in. I just commented that I disagreed that it has more interaction with pedestrian traffic than any area downtown and I still believe that.

If you'd look at the 'Devon Complex' for what it is, you'd have to include the connection with the Colcord and their out door patio bar. The food court in the Garden wing is also open to the public. The ability to cut through the rotunda during normal hours makes it highly interactive. This place is as inviting and people friendly as it gets. jmo

[ljbab728]

Again, I love the Devon complex. I'm not sure that being able to cut through the rotunda counts as being interactive though unless there is something in the rotunda to interact with. Do you consider the underground concourse downtown to be interactive because you can use it to walk from one place to another?

[OKCisOK4me]

Do you consider a sidewalk to be interactive just because you can use it to get to another place? Downtown has more sidewalks than any part of the metro that has everything and nothing in between. All downtown needs is residency.

[soonerguru]

The Devon building is an architectural marvel. It is absolutely fabulous. Agree with just about everything else Kerry said.

[Just the facts]

General Travel Observations:

The status of our interstate highway system is deplorable. We better start planning for life after interstates.

Every metro area with more than 250,000 people should be required to have at least one regional rail line operating by 2020. The vast sums of money spent on urban interstates that are only used 2 times a day is saddening (and maddening).

Metro Dallas is the culmination of every bad decision in highway planning ever made. Even on a Sunday morning we spent over an hour waiting in traffic. I can't imagine what the morning and evening commute is like.

I know every state thinks they have the worst drivers, but they all seem to come to Florida. I don't know if it is because many of them think they are nearing their destination or what but they turn their internal switch to stupid/rude the second they cross the state border

Oklahoma:
If you haven't done so, take the tour of the Weather Center on the OU south campus. Very cool and it is free. The whole family loved it.

University North Park is a bust, and I don't mean store-wise. We stayed at the Embassy Suites and on Friday the wife and kids stayed behind while I did a walking tour of downtown OKC. Without a car all they could do is sit in the hotel room even though they were in the middle of a massive shopping center. Everything is too far to walk to. Our Norman friends say they avoid UNP like the plague because traffic is so bad. I told them that is what happens when you build in a way that requires everyone to drive everywhere for everything.

Campus Corner needs a private parking garage.

Warren Theater is off the chain. We went to see The Hobbit twice (once in 2D and once in 3D). If you go, save your money and skip the 3D. It adds nothing to the movie.

The downtown way-finding system needs to be expanded. People driving around in Deep Deuce asked me how to get to the National Memorial. As the footprint of downtown expands things are getting harder to find. Oddly enough, even though they were driving and I was walking I got to the Memorial before they did. I guess they had to drive around looking for a parking space.

The Deep Deuce trestle is very very cool. Whatever happens to that rail line, that trestle needs to stay. If nothing else the area under it can be turned into a fenced dog park.

I'll say it again. The Project 180 streets look great and they should be a model for future street renovation in the entire urban core. For example, Perry/Carter (can we pick one name or the other please - the road is 6 blocks long and has 2 different names) has 3 hotels and 2 major residential developments taking place along it. It doesn't even have sidewalks on either side of the street between Deep Deuce and Bricktown.

Downtown OKC has a lot more cool old buildings than I remember. I guess this is because it is now possible to get out of a car and start walking. Things that are invisible from the car are up-close and personal from the sidewalk. Even the telephone building looks pretty neat when you are standing right next to the door vs. seeing it from the highway. I love the two built-in (but abandoned) telephone booths.

They need a downtown Urban City Pass for the downtown attractions. Buy one pass (at a reduced rate) and get into all the downtown attractions. It could include admission to the Banjo Museum, Oklahoma Heritage Center, OKCMoA, Oklahoma City National Memorial, Bricktown Rocks, Overholser Mansion, Water Taxi, and MBG. Add places that are free but no one knows about (like the Oklahoma Museum of Telephone History) and it will pull in visitors and entice other attractions downtown (like the National Photography Hall of Fame and the Toy and Action Figure Museum). If the American Indian Cultural Center & Museum is ever done it could be connected to downtown via a water taxi and added to the list. And why the hell is the Museum of Osteology located out in boondocks. It should be downtown where people might actually see it.

The next time I come to OKC we are staying downtown. There are so many neat places to eat it is far better than staying Norman (UNP) where everything is a chain that we can eat at here in Jax.

Downtown OKC has a surprising amount of retail, it is just far too spread out. I don't mind walking but the wife hates it and she knows how to use the debt card like a professional. Get the existing retail clustered in one area and you could have something. BTW - Pinkitzel in the loading docks at Santa Fe Station is great. Wife says they are the best cupcakes she has ever had and the taffy would have made a nice traveling snack if they had lasted that long (you eat one and you can't stop).

I was disappointed in the Skydance Bridge. If is out of scale for the width of the freeway it is trying to span. It needed to be at least 2X as tall as it is. From the car on I-40 it impossible to see the whole thing at once anyhow so maybe it doesn't even matter.

We took a quick walk through Bricktown Rocks. WOW!!!! Even if you don't do rock climbing you should go check it out. That place is really neat. If it wasn't cold while we were there it would have been fun to try.

I have a few other comments with pictures so as I get them uploaded I will post them with comments.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hey, I would say every city with a metro city of 150,000 should required to have a light rail, but that is me.

[SOONER8693]

I would say it is good that this person does not live in OKC/Norman, because apparently this place is a dump/disaster. I don't know how people can stand to live here.

[Just the facts]

I would say it is good that this person does not live in OKC/Norman, because apparently this place is a dump/disaster. I don't know how people can stand to live here.

If you like Norman, great. I used to live in Norman, now I don't. We're both happy. I would move to downtown OKC tonight if the wife gave the green light. Maybe she needs to spend more time with Sid's family.

[jedicurt]

i have been looking at making the move from Norman to Downtown OKC... up until a few months ago i was looking for a house in norman to buy. but after spending a few weeks in San Fran and actually living there as opposed to a short visit, made me realize how much i could love urban living. Now it's just a matter of finding the space i want for the price i want

[Just the facts]

i have been looking at making the move from Norman to Downtown OKC... up until a few months ago i was looking for a house in norman to buy. but after spending a few weeks in San Fran and actually living there as opposed to a short visit, made me realize how much i could love urban living. Now it's just a matter of finding the space i want for the price i want

We had a friend over on Thursday night for a few drinks at the hotel in Norman. During our conversation she said she wanted to move from Norman to downtown as well. Her daughter moved to Washington DC several years ago and after a few visits to DC she realized the enormous benefits of living in an urban environment. She has lived in Norman her whole life and wants to find a job downtown before making the move though. I think she should move now and worry about the job later. The reverse commute isn't bad and she works on Robinson near 36th. Heck, at 5PM she can probably drive from there to downtown OKC faster than she can drive to her house near campus.