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Thread: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

  1. #2351

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    Conserving water is EVERYONE'S responsibility. Just like you should be conserving electricity. Being wasteful with either is just showing yourself to be a jacka$$. You're telling others that you have enough money (or lack of concern) that you can just throw it away with no consideration of what an impact that has on others. That use and toss and "i'll do what i want for myself" mentality is far too common in a particular (not young) generation.

    As for treated water, yes it goes back in to the water source and has to meet a high standard from the EPA in order to do that. And the systems are regularly inspected to ensure that they are meeting both the content and temperature requirements to do so. The solid hockey puck of nasty that's left over, can be properly disposed of. You should be far more concerned with the raw diaper poopies in the landfills. That's the literal crap that works its way down into the ground water eventually. If you are not aware of the concern surround that little bit, go do a little googling. There's a reason why you're supposed to scrape the poopies off in to the toilet....but no one does it. I mean who wants to do that with a smeary squished one? No one, including me. But I didn't realize at the time, that I wasn't supposed to throw those in the trash....since everyone does that. If you work in healthcare, if someone soils the sheets, you do have to scrape it off to a certain degree before the laundry folks will take it (or at least they're supposed to treat it this way).
    Ah, the sanctimony! You mean, unlike me, you used disposable diapers instead of cloth diapers? How could you? The environment is everyone's responsibility. And while you preach about conserving a resource we have an abundance of, and by the way, we don't destroy it, we just pass it downstream after being cleaned, you admit for some reason that you filled the landfill with toxic trash which won't decompose for 100+ years.

    My household is extremely green, but we're not ridiculous. We used cloth diapers, we have solar, etc. We also recognize that in OKC, water is abundant, we don't need to conserve something we have in abundance. We use exactly as much as we want to. Because it's there. Lots of folks consume environmental protection media meant for audiences in the American West and California. There, water is more scarce and even to some extent, the scarcity of water threatens the existence of cities like Las Vegas. But unlike a lot of environmental issues, water is a local issue and water scarcity there is irrelevant to water abundance here.

  2. #2352

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    The solid hockey puck of nasty that's left over, can be properly disposed of.

  3. #2353

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

    Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

  4. #2354

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    nm

  5. #2355

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

    Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.
    110% yes!

  6. #2356

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Hydrant by my house is wide open again. It's only been 10 days since they last had them open. I'll say the guy from the water dept has a great job. He just sits in his truck by the open hydrant for hours until he decides to close it.

  7. #2357
    HangryHippo Guest

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

    Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.
    This!

  8. #2358

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

    Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.
    the water is not "wasted" it just flows down stream ...

  9. #2359

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

    Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.
    What do you think happens to water when it runs down the street? It quite usually ends up back in a reservoir.

  10. #2360

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    I think this is kind of a State of Oklahoma mindset. I recall within the last 10 years one of the north Texas communities came across the Red River looking to buy water, which got the legislature busy to pass a bill banning out of state water sales. The result of that is normal Oklahoma runoff water that flows into the Red River becomes too contaminated for city use.

    So, the State of Oklahoma would rather waste water than conserve it.

  11. Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    the water is not "wasted" it just flows down stream ...
    It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.

  12. #2362

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by chssooner View Post
    What do you think happens to water when it runs down the street? It quite usually ends up back in a reservoir.
    It runs off somewhere downstream where in order to be used by humans again it has to go through another round of water treatment. It's a waste of everything involved in making that water safe for humans to drink in the first place. Electricity, man hours, wear and tear on the equipment involved, etc. Don't pretend that it's just somehow free on all sides of the equation.

  13. #2363

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    They intentionally open hydrants to flush the mains. Sometimes, situations occur where they have to flush water from the system either to remove an upstream contaminant or to lessen downstream pressure. They aren't just opening hydrants for funsies.

  14. #2364
    HangryHippo Guest

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Robertson View Post
    It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.
    Thank you. This isn’t that difficult to understand.

  15. #2365

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    It runs off somewhere downstream where in order to be used by humans again it has to go through another round of water treatment. It's a waste of everything involved in making that water safe for humans to drink in the first place. Electricity, man hours, wear and tear on the equipment involved, etc. Don't pretend that it's just somehow free on all sides of the equation.
    But it's more of a fixed cost for the city. No one charges the city per acre/foot of water used. It's either use it or send it downstream so you don't flood. And the funny thing is even the water that's used is often treated and sent downstream. I'm sure there are increased costs along with increased use, and that's understandable. As long as the city charges for water used, those costs are recoverable. It's treating water in OKC as if it's some sort of finite resource that's a bit silly. We have an excellent water department. We are fine in that department for years to come.

  16. Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Robertson View Post
    It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.
    This, it's the power, chemicals, etc all the things that go in to the process that then are wasted resources. There is a direct correlation where those extra resources would not have been spent if there was not waste. Yes we still turn the lights on in the building every day regardless, but the consumables are a direct use-volume. All the little bits add up from all the customers. We also lose some of that to evaporation. It annoys me every day to see the new homes in my neighborhood that haven't been signed in to contract yet, and waste their sprinkler water like this.

    And Midtowner, i guess you didn't read my post very clearly. I wasn't standing on any high horse. I'm pointing out the things learned that people dont know. And how those have impacts on the community and resources. My new home is far more efficient than my old one that was built in 1994. We actually use LESS water now with some appliance changes. Energy use has stayed about the same while adding 1k sq ft because of insulation and HVAC efficiency. But that's for that anyway.

  17. #2367

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    The point I'm trying to make about the open hydrants for hours is the amount of water sprinkler systems are what people are referring to as wasted water is trivial to the thousands and thousands of gallons the city releases on to the streets on a daily basis. Just the amount of water that the water main that has been leaking into the street by my my house for the last month is probably more than those office buildings are using in 50 years.

  18. #2368

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Maintaining the system properly vs keeping your grass green is two different uses.

  19. Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by gjl View Post
    The point I'm trying to make about the open hydrants for hours is the amount of water sprinkler systems are what people are referring to as wasted water is trivial to the thousands and thousands of gallons the city releases on to the streets on a daily basis. Just the amount of water that the water main that has been leaking into the street by my my house for the last month is probably more than those office buildings are using in 50 years.
    I can see the point in that, but also in what gjl is saying.

    Now i have only rarely in my entire life, seen a hydrant opened for "maintenance" like that. I can really only think of twice that i've seen it. So do we know that it happens all that often? But either way, i think maybe that's a place where we could have someone look at that and create something to help solve that problem. Hook that hydrant up to some sort of truck that's able to handle water at that pressure (like a fire truck can) and filter out the crap and then be able to feed the clean water back in to the system. That's a gross oversimplification, but it's only done the way it is today, because someone hasn't come up with a way to cycle it back.....yet. So that, in my view, is a GREAT example of someone seeing a problem and raising awareness to help solve it.

    I would also say that if you have a neighborhood with older leaking toilets, you would be astounded at the amount of water that ends up flowing through them. That water cycles back through water treatment so it's not fully lost, but as mentioned before, there are resources spent unnecessarily.

    What i think would be really cool, is if there was a good productive way to collect that storm water runoff and efficient process it for storage. Even if its non-potable. We haven't gotten there yet, but having that secondary non-potable water infrastructure for things like sprinklers would go a long way to conserving things.

  20. Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    I can see the point in that, but also in what gjl is saying.

    Now i have only rarely in my entire life, seen a hydrant opened for "maintenance" like that. I can really only think of twice that i've seen it. So do we know that it happens all that often? But either way, i think maybe that's a place where we could have someone look at that and create something to help solve that problem. Hook that hydrant up to some sort of truck that's able to handle water at that pressure (like a fire truck can) and filter out the crap and then be able to feed the clean water back in to the system. That's a gross oversimplification, but it's only done the way it is today, because someone hasn't come up with a way to cycle it back.....yet. So that, in my view, is a GREAT example of someone seeing a problem and raising awareness to help solve it.

    I would also say that if you have a neighborhood with older leaking toilets, you would be astounded at the amount of water that ends up flowing through them. That water cycles back through water treatment so it's not fully lost, but as mentioned before, there are resources spent unnecessarily.

    What i think would be really cool, is if there was a good productive way to collect that storm water runoff and efficient process it for storage. Even if its non-potable. We haven't gotten there yet, but having that secondary non-potable water infrastructure for things like sprinklers would go a long way to conserving things.
    The hydrants on or property at work are supposed to be opened quarterly according to the guy that does them. They only get done every couple years but every time he comes he tells us they're going to start sticking to the schedule. And they're only opened for maybe 20 minutes 30 at the most.

  21. #2371

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Still lots of brown dirt showing along the shoreline:


  22. #2372

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    I wonder what the next step is? Like, can they take water from the overflowing lakes down in SE Oklahoma? Or keep bleeding Canton dry?

    At a certain point, something has to be done here.

  23. #2373

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    I am guessing adding 120,000 people to the metro over the past decade hasn't helped matters.

  24. #2374

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by chssooner View Post
    I wonder what the next step is? Like, can they take water from the overflowing lakes down in SE Oklahoma? Or keep bleeding Canton dry?

    At a certain point, something has to be done here.
    I think they will wait until late June or July before they move any water. May is a big rain month and we don't want to have a situation like I recall we did years ago when we pulled water from Canton, had massive rains and then had to drain off most of the amount we got from Canton.

    I "think" Oklahoma City is blessed with some of the best long term water management planning in the US. Solid access to many sources of water that have been fairly negotiated with all stakeholders.

  25. #2375

    Default Re: Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dob Hooligan View Post
    I think they will wait until late June or July before they move any water. May is a big rain month and we don't want to have a situation like I recall we did years ago when we pulled water from Canton, had massive rains and then had to drain off most of the amount we got from Canton.

    I "think" Oklahoma City is blessed with some of the best long term water management planning in the US. Solid access to many sources of water that have been fairly negotiated with all stakeholders.
    I think it makes more sense to release water while the river is flowing better than usual. Less absorption and evap while temps are down. With all the new homes, apartments, and car washes Hefner will be showing lots of bare lake bed. Okc should dredge Hefner in the shallow areas until they can’t reach bottom anymore. . Lots of cities have done it. Run the material through a wash plant and dewater and stack out what’s dredged up. Sell it to offset the cost.

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