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Thread: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

  1. #1

    Default Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Why Your Phone, Cable & Internet Bills Cost So Much | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance



    The U.S. has fallen behind much of the Western world when it comes to phone, cable and Internet service. Americans actually pay much more for inferior service compared to their global counterparts.

    In his new book, The Fine Print: How Big Companies Use 'Plain English' to Rob You Blind, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter David Cay Johnston highlights these astounding facts:

    •Americans pay four times as much as the French for an Internet triple-play package—phone, cable TV and Internet—at an average of $160 per month versus $38 per month.
    •The French get global free calling and worldwide live television. Their Internet is also 10 times faster at downloading information and 20 times faster uploading it.
    •America has gone from #1 in Internet speed (when we invented it) to 29th in the world and falling.
    •Bulgaria is among the countries with faster Internet service.
    •Americans pay 38 times as much as the Japanese for Internet data.
    Since the mid-1970's when Ma Bell was cited as holding a monopoly over phone service, Americans have been told more competition would lower their phone bill. But the promise of lower prices has actually led to higher prices, says Johnston.

    In his book, he tells of a woman who in 1984 paid $9.51 for her local phone service. He writes:

    "By 2003 her bill had swollen fourfold to $38.90. In the two decades since the breakup of the AT&T monopoly, even after adjusting for inflation, [her] telephone cost $2.30 for each dollar paid in 1984. And that was without any charges for long-distance calls."

    Not only have prices increased, phone service providers now charge fees for everything, including options that used to be free, such as directory service. Bills have also become increasingly complicated. A poll of 1,000 people found that only three people actually knew how to read their statement. That means virtually no one understands their phone bill in its entirety.

    Of cable service Johnston writes:

    "Since 1995, average cable prices have been rising 2.6 times faster than the cost of living, reaching an average of almost $53 a month for basic, no frill service in 2009, FCC reports show....

    According to SNL Kagan, a market research firm, the average cable bill in 2011 was $78, almost double the price of $40 in 2001 and significantly higher than the FCC figure.

    How did this happen?

    "The telecos got the rules changed while we weren't watching," says Johnston in the accompanying interview. Basically, the phone and cable companies lobbied Washington to change laws and regulations to favor their business over their customers.

    And remember the so-called "Information Superhighway"?

    Over the course of the last 20 years, nearly $500 billion has been collected by the telecom companies to (allegedly) bring America into the 21st century with an "Information Superhighway," says Johnston. That works out ot $3,000 per household to have access to high-speed Internet.

    But America did not get what it was promised and much of the country will never get fiber optic lines, Johnston tells The Daily Ticker. And even in cities that do have the faster service, the service is not always accessible.

    "This is terrible for commerce and our economic future," says Johnston, adding that our global competitors are investing in the proper infrastructure.

    "The companies essentially have a business model that is antithetical to economic growth," he says. "Profits go up if they can provide slow Internet at super high prices."

    The relationship between phone and cable providers has essentially become a cartel, says Johnston, who cites the relationship between Verizon and Comcast.


    Verizon announced in 2008 that it would stop building out its FiOS (fiber-optic system) once it reaches about 16 million of America's 100 million households....

    Instead, it has made deals with Comcast to sell its services using Comcast cables. Verizon said it anticipates similar deals with other cable providers to sell of their systems.

    In terms of phone service, what America really got was a duopoly, says Johnston, noting that AT&T and Verizon control 60% of phone service in America.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    lack of regulation and price controls in the US

  3. Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    The US is freaking huge in terms of land area and nobody seems to want to front the cash to build new infrastructure/lay down newer, faster lines, except maybe in highly populated areas.

    Also, I'm pretty sure that sometime in the early 1990s, cable was deregulated, meaning they can literally charge whatever they want and the government won't step in to stop them. It's all about profit.

    Furthermore, a lot of cable/internet companies are now either affiliated with or owned by big movie studios and/or the broadcast networks, and we all know how greedy they are. If you ask me, movie studios owning entire cable companies (or vice versa) shouldn't be allowed, but it's probably too late to change it now.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if they're keeping internet slow on purpose in some twisted effort to stop piracy, despite the fact that that's a really dumb strategy.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    I saw an article about this the other day and experienced it first hand when i was putting together our household bills. I sorted them in an excel spreadsheet by the highest amount and after our mortgage, car loan, and student loan payment our cell phone bill was the 4th highest monthly bill. The only exception was 1 electric bill this summer that was higher than anticipated.

    Dont get me started on Cox, ive cancelled them and have the lowest unadvertised package on Dish now but that hasnt stopped my cox internet cable bill for 1 meg of speed doubling in price over the last 4 years. Was once 16.99 now 34.99. WTF. 1 meg....

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    I saw an article about this the other day and experienced it first hand when i was putting together our household bills. I sorted them in an excel spreadsheet by the highest amount and after our mortgage, car loan, and student loan payment our cell phone bill was the 4th highest monthly bill. The only exception was 1 electric bill this summer that was higher than anticipated.

    Dont get me started on Cox, ive cancelled them and have the lowest unadvertised package on Dish now but that hasnt stopped my cox internet cable bill for 1 meg of speed doubling in price over the last 4 years. Was once 16.99 now 34.99. WTF. 1 meg....
    Right now im getting 3 meg with AT&T for 14.99 a month. Their regular price is around 30 bucks a month for that speed so every 6 months or so I will call their retention dept and raise cane and threaten to go with Cox and they will give me 6 more months at the cheaper price.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Achilleslastand View Post
    Right now im getting 3 meg with AT&T for 14.99 a month. Their regular price is around 30 bucks a month for that speed so every 6 months or so I will call their retention dept and raise cane and threaten to go with Cox and they will give me 6 more months at the cheaper price.
    I have each time they have raised it and they have given me discounts for a 6 month period of time. When the price went to 34.99 they dropped it to 26.99 for a 6 month period and went on and on about their generosity and what a good deal i was getting - i reminded them even with the discount there generosity RAISED my bill for the same EXACT service.

    When we lived in edmond I was able to get ATT for internet but unfortunately where we live now cox is the only player. I've considered turning one of our phones into a mobile hotspot but even that typically would raise my bill by about the same amount.

    Ive even thought about doing something like this but the data limits make me weary.

    Wireless Internet Card | Broadband Modem | Cricket Wireless

    Data Plans | Wireless Internet Service | Cricket Wireless

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    I have a feeling that most of our cost is eaten up trying to cover the distances created by low density sprawl. A single cell tower in France might serve the same amount of people as 10 towers here in the US.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    What's even better about this -- in most states, the Telecomm industry has had laws passed to make it nearly impossible for local municipalities to start their own broadband internet service (and thus compete with them). So let's say a small-land-area city like Mustang, for example, wanted to roll out fiber to every home. The telecom PAC swoops in and gets a new law passed. The law would require that each and every piece of equipment used in a publicly-owned utility go out for a bid. Annually. The cost to bid, distribute, and possibly replace each piece of equipment, every year, would be far higher than the private utilities could offer. So the effort is quashed before it ever gets going.

    This is a simple example, the real methods used are far more complex. But you can pretty much forget ever getting cheaper Internet service until these PACs and their armies of lawyers are brought to their knees.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    I think people need to start looking at organizations like ALEC. Don't be deceived by the pretty wrapper, you will likely find a lot of things you won't like.....

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    the op has a lots of 1+2 =4 in it

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Orleans, FR
    population: 153,490
    density: 14,470/sq mi

    Norman, OK
    population: 110,925
    density: 541/sq mi.

    Which do you think would be more expensive to provide services to?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Just a few questions for the author of the study...

    When comparing the costs of the French package to the US package:
    * What are the licensing/retransmission costs for the network(s) and other programming source(s) provided in the French package?
    * What service tiers and/or bandwidth does the French Internet service provide?
    * Are the compared services each offering comparable digital services on the video tier?
    * What are the baseline/specifics behind the claim that the French "download 10 times faster and upload 20 times faster?"
    * What percentage of the overall service expense is provided by direct government subsidy?
    * Does *all* of France enjoy the superior pricing option, or are service tiers restricted to areas such as Paris?
    * Is the phone service POTS, VOIP, or something else?
    * Are there bandwidth caps in either direction?
    * Does the provider supply the equipment, or is it purchased separately?

    Not saying the author is wrong, but I want to make sure I'm studying an apples-to-apples comparison, not talking-point information published by someone trying to sell a book.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Supposedly, you can get free WiFi in the City of Ponca City. I think it's provided by the municipality. If WiFi were out there, why would you need to invest in laying fiber everywhere? Security? Bandwidth limits?

  14. #14

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    Supposedly, you can get free WiFi in the City of Ponca City. I think it's provided by the municipality. If WiFi were out there, why would you need to invest in laying fiber everywhere? Security? Bandwidth limits?
    Nothing is free. Maybe they put an extra charge for it in Ponca City utility bills. I doubt Wi-Fi is as fast as fastest cable.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post
    Supposedly, you can get free WiFi in the City of Ponca City. I think it's provided by the municipality. If WiFi were out there, why would you need to invest in laying fiber everywhere? Security? Bandwidth limits?
    You still need lots of Wifi access points spread throughout the city and they need to be wired by fiber or cable. Its also a bandwith issue, the more users there are in a area the more access points you need.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Thought this image might be relevant to the discussion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	2679

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...64747200_n.jpg

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    Thought this image might be relevant to the discussion.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	399712_452169901493367_164747200_n.jpg 
Views:	267 
Size:	56.2 KB 
ID:	2679

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...64747200_n.jpg
    Very cool. Clearly our problem is not population; it is the gross misallocation of resources.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamTell View Post
    Thought this image might be relevant to the discussion.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	399712_452169901493367_164747200_n.jpg 
Views:	267 
Size:	56.2 KB 
ID:	2679

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...64747200_n.jpg
    So I wonder what it would look like if it was the density of OKC? All of the United States and half of Europe, maybe?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    So I wonder what it would look like if it was the density of OKC? All of the United States and half of Europe, maybe?
    Pretty close...probably closer to 1/3 or 1/4 of Europe. Alaska is pretty damn big.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Our phone, cable and internet cost so much because . . .
    We accept and embrace mediocrity.
    (eg.: 2012 presidential candidates/congressional slates)
    and we keep paying and voting paying and voting paying and voting . . .

    It's what's known in SocioEnconoPolitico circles as the MNICBWS . . .
    (MinnesotaNiceItCouldBeWorseSyndrome) and, in Atlanta as the same thing with an A.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    Pretty close...probably closer to 1/3 or 1/4 of Europe. Alaska is pretty damn big.
    It would take 11 Alaskas to hold the world's population if done at the density of OKC.

    It would take 62% of Africa.

    It would take 1.8 Europes (including all the UK, Nordic countries, and former Societ block countries).

    It would take 2.4 Australias.

    It would take 104 Oklahomas.

    It would take 11,694 OKCs.

    Now for the reason why we pay more for goods and services in the US. If OKC had the same density as Paris everyone in OKC would fit in a circle with a 1.75 mile radius around Devon Tower. A 6 mile street car line would serve the entire population and we could all get cell phone services from the same cell tower.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Orleans, FR
    population: 153,490
    density: 14,470/sq mi

    Norman, OK
    population: 110,925
    density: 541/sq mi.

    Which do you think would be more expensive to provide services to?
    Not everything in telecom is density related. While larger, distributed networks do certainly have a cost and play a factor in the costs that we pay, they aren't the whole picture. You can only carry so much bandwidth on a given fiber loop. From what I've gleaned talking to installers and such, most of Cox's network here in the city is comprised of OC-48 loops which have about 2.5 Gbit/second. If one made the assumption that they do not oversell their bandwidth(HA!) that could handle approximately 84 households with 30 Mbit/s connections. Given that residential carriers oversubscribe, it probably handles more like 250-500 per loop.

    While there's cost in burying and maintaining all that fiber, a lot of the cost is also in the switching equipment itself. If a given cable node that hooks into that fiber loop can handle at most 250 subscribers, you have to buy one of those nodes for every 250 subscribers regardless of other costs. While IANANE(I am not a network engineer) I would not be at all shocked if those nodes were anywhere from $80,000 to $120,000 per, if not more.

    In a nutshell, I certainly believe that our sprawl plays a role in our telecom costs. It is not, however, the whole picture. Subscribers on a network plays a big role in scaling, too. We pay a lot more for a lot less than other countries, some of it is justified and some of it is just because we have ****ty telecom providers.

    Could be worse, though. I hear horror stories from Canadians. Maybe Google's fiber venture up in KC will be successful and start some serious competition which has been lacking in our duopoly structure. I certainly am hopefully.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    how long does that loop have to be in OKC (USA) to hit 250 households compared to how long the loop has to be to hit 250 households in Paris?

    The density subject came up at our house last Halloween. My kids went trick-or-treating and I always remember having way more candy than they get, and getting it faster. Here is why. In our subdivision front doors are 65' apart on average. In the area I grew up front doors were 30' feet apart. I could cover the same number of houses in half the time my kids can today or hit 2X as many houses in the same amount of time. My trip probably fell in the middle, covering 25% more homes in 75% of the time. More candy, less effort.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    JTF - I hope more people wake up and realize our ill advised development patterns of the past 50+ years affects far more than just road traffic. If people would simply think about the secondary, tertiary, etc effects of unabated sprawl, I think we could build some momentum toward correcting numerous issues we don't even think of as related to it - such as substandard telecom service.

    But it is going to take a lot of people talking to our friends, family, neighbors, and government/business leaders and meeting with a lot of resistance at first.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Why your phone, cable and internet costs so much.......

    I agree CaptDave - everyone should want more candy with less effort. Alas, to paraphrase Major Payne, there is plenty of resistance. We have a lot of people that make their living off of the inefficiency.

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