Vast

[Stew]

I never realized offering a customer an option afforded to Chili's customers everyday is such an unreasonable request. I guess it's all in your point of view. If you feel like the restaurant is doing you a favor by serving you then yeah I can see accepting whatever service dogma they adhere to but I'm more in the camp that if I'm paying somebody to service my needs then they better darn well jump through hoops to meet my expectations or I'll simply walk. Restaurants need customers to survive, not the other way around. There is a long history of failed fine dining joints to attest to that.

[jn1780]

Its the majority of the customers in your target demographic that determines if the customer is right or not. You obviously can't change your whole operation to fit the tastes of a few individuals.

[Teo9969]

There are plenty of ways around the ordering situation and a good server will make sure that they achieve acceptable service standards no matter if the guest is intelligent or if the guest thinks they are going to run their own dining experience...demanding (though I'm not convinced that's exactly what happened in guru's situation) is not one of them.

Just because a guest orders something, doesn't mean the server has to turn it in immediately. The pace of the meal is always going to run through the server.

All that being said, a good server will read the guest and provide the best dining experience the guest is willing to have. It's just sad that not all diners are created equal...

[cagoklahoma]

My wife and I went to Vast on the second night it was open to celebrate our one year anniversary. The views are amazing, the service was good, and the food met my expectations. Overall we thoroughly enjoyed our time, but I don’t know when we will go back. We are not quite in the tax bracket that would allow us to spend $200 on dinner very often. Going into it I knew it would be expensive, and that there would be some things about it I hadn’t experienced. So instead of requiring them to meet me at my level, I wanted to experience what the service is like at their level. I don’t want to go somewhere like Vast, spend a lot of money and be treated like I am at Chili’s.

Vast is not Chili’s, and should not be the standard by which we base our service principals. However, if you feel that should be, then you should know that Chili’s customers are also offered dish water in the ramekins that are their many sides of ranch come in, cups that are quazi-clean, and the many other reasons that make this former employee not eat there. Even though I took great care of my guest’s by making sure their cups, utensils, plates, bowls, and ramekins were clean and free of debris, most of my coworkers did not.

Happy eating!

For those who want it their way, go to Burger King.

[Roger S]

In the case of the ordering sequence I think it boils simply down to the old adage "The customer is always right".

That's an adage created by the customer. Those of us who have been on the other side have had way to many experiences where the customer is a freaking idiot.

Best example I can give. I used to own a hobby and game store. I had a person walk in one day and this exchange took place.

Customer: Where are your gas pumps?

Me: This is a game store. We don't offer gasoline.

Customer: So you don't sell gas?

Me: No, we sell games.

<Customer storms out and slams the door>

On many occasions I would have a customer come in wanting me to buy something from them. I would offer the price I was willing to give and a dialogue similar to this would take place.

Customer: I can get twice that much for this card on e-Bay!

Me: What name did you see on the front of the building?

Customer: The Game. Why?

Me: So it doesn't say e-Bay on the front of my store?

<customer would roll eyes, sigh, get angry, etc...>

And no my store didn't close because I was a smart ass that didn't think the customer was always right. It closed because my wife took it in the divorce. So what I learned from all of it is don't go into business with your wife.

[OKCisOK4me]

Its the majority of the customers in your target demographic that determines if the customer is right or not. You obviously can't change your whole operation to fit the tastes of a few individuals.

That's like saying you can't put a traffic circle in Oklahoma City, because the majority of Oklahomans will be too stupid to use it...

Even though I took great care of my guest’s by making sure their cups, utensils, plates, bowls, and ramekins were clean and free of debris, most of my coworkers did not.

Crap! I still have that gift card to use... lol

[Pete]

Henry Ford's famous quote applies here:

"If I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have said 'Faster horses'. "


We don't have much fine dining in Oklahoma City and it's up to the operators at Vast and the like to raise the bar, not lower it to the level people have become accustomed.

I can assure you here in L.A. -- quite possibly the most competitive restaurant market in the U.S. -- that it's the norm to order your appetizers with your mains.

[OKCisOK4me]

I would think that it would be appropriate to not want to space the orders out. What if you place just your appetizer order and between then and the time you place your entree order that a massive crowd comes in. Wouldn't you want to receive your order in a timely manner? I'd think that the customer would be complaining if their order was taking longer. Common sense...

[Tier2City]

Question: have you ever eaten in a "fine dining" restaurant that demands you to place your order for starters and appetizers at the same time you place your orders for mains? We thought it was some kind of joke, but realized they were serious. I cannot imagine in a million years wasting another minute of my life worrying about getting a reservation to that amateur hour.

Question - have you ever not ordered the starter and the main at the same time in a decent restaurant? I've got a lot of respect for SoonerGuru so I had to go back and look carefully at what he wrote. I thought he must have been mentioning having to order starter, main and dessert at the same time - which can happen, we need time to prepare it, we need to take the cheese out now, etc., etc.

But he is clearly talking about just starters and mains. So sadly, but with great relish, I have to say he's out to lunch....

[Larry OKC]

While it is common practice to order the apps & main dishes at the same time, I have never found it to be a requirement. Have often ordeed apps first while we were deciding on the main meal. I don't see any difference in splitting up the placement of the order any more than adding on dessert at the end. It shouldn't be a big deal. If the restaurant isn't able to handle a reasonable request, the diner is free to take their business elsewhere. Have any of you seen those mystery diner shows where they set up cameras showing the staff being indifferent or not accommodating to the customer? When confronted by the owner, the staff gets defensive and beligerent, saying the customer is not always right, they got what they deserved?

[LandRunOkie]

In the case of the ordering sequence I think it boils simply down to the old adage "The customer is always right".

This tells me you've never run a successful business. The simple fact is that there are good customers and bad customers, and a business owner doesn't owe a bad customer anything. It must have something to do with the poverty levels in this state that makes people think that just because they have the money for a good or service means a business must do as they say. The prevalence of this attitude, in my opinion, is what is keeping more high-end retailers from locating here.

[Bellaboo]

Sorry Soonerguru, I think you exposed yourself as being the 'amateur', not Vast. lol

[Teo9969]

I would think that it would be appropriate to not want to space the orders out. What if you place just your appetizer order and between then and the time you place your entree order that a massive crowd comes in. Wouldn't you want to receive your order in a timely manner? I'd think that the customer would be complaining if their order was taking longer. Common sense...

That largely depends on the appetizer ordered, the amount of people at the table, the amount of people in the restaurant, the table the guests are sitting at, the occasion on which the guests are dining, the time the group wants to spend at the restaurant.

It is a fluid situation. The server's responsibility is to read and direct the guests, whether overtly or covertly, to the best experience the guest is willing to have.

[progressiveboy]

This tells me you've never run a successful business. The simple fact is that there are good customers and bad customers, and a business owner doesn't owe a bad customer anything. It must have something to do with the poverty levels in this state that makes people think that just because they have the money for a good or service means a business must do as they say. The prevalence of this attitude, in my opinion, is what is keeping more high-end retailers from locating here.

Agree! Customers manipulate and work the system just because they have a sense of "entitlement". A business that is "customer focused" should strive to meet or bet their expectations however, not at the cost of a customer that takes complete advantage of a business simply because they can? Utter BS IMO. Sorry, the customer is not always right!

[Stew]

This tells me you've never run a successful business. The simple fact is that there are good customers and bad customers, and a business owner doesn't owe a bad customer anything. It must have something to do with the poverty levels in this state that makes people think that just because they have the money for a good or service means a business must do as they say. The prevalence of this attitude, in my opinion, is what is keeping more high-end retailers from locating here.

Hmmm.... Sam Walton said and believed the customer is always right. In fact his two rules for Walmart:

Wal-Mart Rule No. 1: The customer is always right.
Wal-Mart Rule No. 2: If the customer happens to be wrong, refer back to Rule No. 1!

I'm going to stick with Sam on this one until somebody more successful than he says otherwise.

[Rover]

Hmmm.... Sam Walton said and believed the customer is always right. In fact his two rules for Walmart:



I'm going to stick with Sam on this one until somebody more successful than he says otherwise.

Hmm. Selling large volumes of cheap underwear or providing fine dining at a nice restaurant. Yes, I am sure the same rules apply. Mass discount retailing and fine restaurant management...exactly the same.

[positano]

While it is common practice to order the apps & main dishes at the same time, I have never found it to be a requirement. Have often ordeed apps first while we were deciding on the main meal. I don't see any difference in splitting up the placement of the order any more than adding on dessert at the end. It shouldn't be a big deal. If the restaurant isn't able to handle a reasonable request, the diner is free to take their business elsewhere.

^This. Absolutely this. If a restaurant declined and told me my starter order would have to wait until I was ready to place my order for my main course I would leave. But I've ordered this way on many occasions in a wide variety of restaurants and never had an adverse experience. Seems to me this may be an isolated incident.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, the Customer is not even always rational, let alone right.

I bet if you went into Wal-Mart when Sam Walton happened to be there and you said "This shirt ought to cost half this much" He'd call his own bluff...So much for the axiom

[OKCisOK4me]

Yeah, exactly. Businesses don't stay in business because they bend over for the customer...

[Dubya61]

If I were the server and were reliant upon a happy customer for a good tip, I'd say the customer can order his appetizer separate from his main course, if he so desires, but advise him that ordering the main with it would allow for a speedier meal. If the customer insists on the wait, it should be his prerogative. If you're selling underwear and get paid no matter if the customer is happy about the thread count or not, the customer can be wrong. If you're selling entertainment (that's really what eating out is) and a disgruntled customer reduces your pay, you ought to satify the customer and ask the kitchen to work with you on this one.

[OKCisOK4me]

Do you think there may be a possibility that if they ask you to order the dessert at the same time as all of it, that maybe, just MAYBE, they don't have it pre-ordered from some factory that makes desserts. Maybe they apply the frosting and all the freshness of that order right then and there? Maybe they need prep time on their desserts. IDK, that's just a thought.

[kelroy55]

Not sure this applies to this topic but last weekend I ate at a nice steak house in Richardson and when ordering an ap the waitress asked me if I would like it before my meal or with my main meal.

[OKCTalker]

Salads are typically served before the entree in the U.S., after the entree in Europe.

Two couples dining together - one American the other European - have ordered dinner in a restaurant. What's it gonna be?

[catch22]

Do you think there may be a possibility that if they ask you to order the dessert at the same time as all of it, that maybe, just MAYBE, they don't have it pre-ordered from some factory that makes desserts. Maybe they apply the frosting and all the freshness of that order right then and there? Maybe they need prep time on their desserts. IDK, that's just a thought.

Yes. Some desserts (not sure about vast) require 7-10 minute lead times for prep. As a server it's a disaster having the table sit 7-10 mins after dinner with no food in front of them waiting for dessert. It's all about timing, if a server asks you a question about the next course he is trying to time it so you don't have a bad experience. The server knows the prep times for the menu better than you do and if he offers dessert at a specific time, it's because he knows how long it will take to execute it.

[Teo9969]

Yes. Some desserts (not sure about vast) require 7-10 minute lead times for prep. As a server it's a disaster having the table sit 7-10 mins after dinner with no food in front of them waiting for dessert. It's all about timing, if a server asks you a question about the next course he is trying to time it so you don't have a bad experience. The server knows the prep times for the menu better than you do and if he offers dessert at a specific time, it's because he knows how long it will take to execute it.

Maybe at Macaroni Grill...

Many guests are more likely to have a bad experience if they feel unnecessarily rushed than if things take longer than expected. Some tables are the same way. The only disastrous thing for a good server is misreading a guest.