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  1. Default Latest Taliban Atrocities

    From the Washington Post:
    KABUL Taliban insurgents beheaded 17 Afghan civilians in a rebel-controlled area of southern Afghanistan, officials said Monday, and two NATO troops were killed by an Afghan soldier in the eastern part of the country. The civilians, two of them women, were killed Sunday night in the Kajaki area of Helmand province, apparently because they were attending a party that featured music and mixed-gender dancing, provincial
    officials said.
    Regardless of your thoughts on how we got here or how the Taliban came to hold some much power, I think most would agree that the sooner we are out of Afghanistan, the better. The place is literally ungovernable, and every additional US/NATO life lost or penny spent there is a complete and utter waste.

    I think we obviously had to act after 9/11 and we were completely justified in dealing death and destruction on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but why we feel the need to build a society/democratic government there is completely beyond me. Some criminals cannot be reformed, they must just be punished.

    As we have seen repeatedly throughout history, revolutions last only when they are begun from within. When the Afghan people are truly tired of being abused and lorded over by these lunatics, they will rise up and push them out of power. We need to get out now.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    I agree

  3. #3

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    It's not ungovernable, we just have to be willing to invest trillions of dollars and about a generation's worth of time to reshape their culture entirely.

    Totally doable!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    I'm thinking it will take longer than a generation to turn around a few thousand years way of doing things.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomPaine View Post
    From the Washington Post:


    Regardless of your thoughts on how we got here or how the Taliban came to hold some much power, I think most would agree that the sooner we are out of Afghanistan, the better. The place is literally ungovernable, and every additional US/NATO life lost or penny spent there is a complete and utter waste.

    I think we obviously had to act after 9/11 and we were completely justified in dealing death and destruction on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but why we feel the need to build a society/democratic government there is completely beyond me. Some criminals cannot be reformed, they must just be punished.

    As we have seen repeatedly throughout history, revolutions last only when they are begun from within. When the Afghan people are truly tired of being abused and lorded over by these lunatics, they will rise up and push them out of power. We need to get out now.
    So do you support Barry when he sent in more troops?

  6. Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    I know it's pointless to reply, because people who fail to show the proper respect for people who have earned it (you should use President Obama, and Governor Romney) are usually pretty narrow minded.

    However, I was against troop increases in Afghanistan. But remember who asked/demanded them. It is a no-win situation for civilian leaders to deny troop increases when asked for by the experts on the ground. Failure to do so (as in Somalia) might be disastrous, and the last time we had done it (Iraqi surge) it was extremely successful (if only for the short term). The President really only had one option, and that was to support the flag officer who asked, and in this case, it was General McChrystal.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    So do you support Barry when he sent in more troops?
    Nope from me...Worst thing he has done to date... he could have shown some political courage but decided to help his re-election chances instead

  8. Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy180 View Post
    Nope from me...Worst thing he has done to date... he could have shown some political courage but decided to help his re-election chances instead
    Unfortunately, job #1 for ANY politician is to get re-elected. (

  9. #9

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy180 View Post
    Nope from me...Worst thing he has done to date... he could have shown some political courage but decided to help his re-election chances instead

    Not sure he was in a position to start pulling troops out and he didn't want to leave them in there undermanned so the choices were limited. If we stayed out of Iraq it wouldn't have been an issue.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    As most of us know the President could not have started pulling troops out w/o the support of the GOP leadership. An influential opposition would have denied the funding it would have taken to initiate this troop pull out. The President would have been running a fools errand with the chicken hawks squawking "he lost Afghanistan to his Mooslim pals." We saw what happened when he tried to close Gitmo.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadhawg View Post
    Not sure he was in a position to start pulling troops out and he didn't want to leave them in there undermanned so the choices were limited. If we stayed out of Iraq it wouldn't have been an issue.
    Well, according to Barry's campaign promises he was going to pull out of Iraq and Agghanistan first thing in 2009, you can YouTube for the audio/video, followed by closing down Guantanamo, removing trade embargo with Cuba, having transparency on his website of all bills he signs, and ending corporate lobbying.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    As most of us know the President could not have started pulling troops out w/o the support of the GOP leadership. An influential opposition would have denied the funding it would have taken to initiate this troop pull out. The President would have been running a fools errand with the chicken hawks squawking "he lost Afghanistan to his Mooslim pals." We saw what happened when he tried to close Gitmo.
    Hello, he controlled all 3 branches his first two years in office.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Hello, he controlled all 3 branches his first two years in office.
    That is BS. The political system in this country is not Parliamentary. No President has the power that a Prime minister does. In fact the Dems did not have a 60 vote majority in the Senate but for a few months. Since when does the President control the judicial branch. Hello back to ya!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Well, according to Barry's campaign promises he was going to pull out of Iraq and Agghanistan first thing in 2009, you can YouTube for the audio/video, followed by closing down Guantanamo, removing trade embargo with Cuba, having transparency on his website of all bills he signs, and ending corporate lobbying.
    He never said he pull out of Afghanistan first thing in 2009. I doubt you will be able to show me the money on that one. As far as Iraq, he was bound by a treaty the previous administration signed, and he honored it to the chagrin of the neo-cons. The trade embargo on Cuba is an ongoing utter failure that once again he can't change. Ending corporate lobbying, really? Is that not a function of Congress? In fact wouldn't the embargo also fall under their purview? I doubt a professor in constitutional law would make the promises you claim. Give me some cites or links to make your case.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    I do remember McCain say he had a plan to catch Bin Laden. How come he did not share it with either President?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    It was one thing to go in and blow terrorist camps in Afghanistan to smithereens in the aftermath of 9-11. You might not get them all but it needed to be done to draw a bright line in the sand around the world that you can't come over here and attack civilians the way they did. And I have no problem with going back and doing it again if they don't get the message and start looking like they are setting up to hit us or allies, again.

    But I just don't see how we can possibly go in there and turn around a culture that has such deeply held beliefs that are so fundamentally opposed to what we American's tend to expect, especially with a government that is corrupt from the ground up. Flexing military might in response to terrorism on our shores is one thing. Nation building is another.

    And, yes, Obama is our commander in chief and he certainly could have pulled out the troops in Afghanistan. That is his call. It is a judgment call but he has the power.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    That is BS. The political system in this country is not Parliamentary. No President has the power that a Prime minister does. In fact the Dems did not have a 60 vote majority in the Senate but for a few months. Since when does the President control the judicial branch. Hello back to ya!
    Well, perhaps he meant the administrative "branch?"

  18. #18

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    He never said he pull out of Afghanistan first thing in 2009. I doubt you will be able to show me the money on that one. As far as Iraq, he was bound by a treaty the previous administration signed, and he honored it to the chagrin of the neo-cons. The trade embargo on Cuba is an ongoing utter failure that once again he can't change. Ending corporate lobbying, really? Is that not a function of Congress? In fact wouldn't the embargo also fall under their purview? I doubt a professor in constitutional law would make the promises you claim. Give me some cites or links to make your case.
    He has shown next to no real understanding of the constitution such that you'd expect from a college - not professor - but instructor. I am not sure he ever even practiced law and if he did, not for long. And law professors argue about the law all the live long day so that doesn't mean he got it right.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    It was one thing to go in and blow terrorist camps in Afghanistan to smithereens in the aftermath of 9-11. You might not get them all but it needed to be done to draw a bright line in the sand around the world that you can't come over here and attack civilians the way they did. And I have no problem with going back and doing it again if they don't get the message and start looking like they are setting up to hit us or allies, again.

    But I just don't see how we can possibly go in there and turn around a culture that has such deeply held beliefs that are so fundamentally opposed to what we American's tend to expect, especially with a government that is corrupt from the ground up. Flexing military might in response to terrorism on our shores is one thing. Nation building is another.

    And, yes, Obama is our commander in chief and he certainly could have pulled out the troops in Afghanistan. That is his call. It is a judgment call but he has the power.
    And if Congress refuses to authorize the funds??

  20. #20

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Why do I see so much politics allowed in the Current Events & Open Topics thread? These threads that are obviously going to get political are just as poisonous to this forum as that politics section.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    And if Congress refuses to authorize the funds??
    What has this got to do with bringing them home? Yes, they can deny the funds supporting a war, but that isn't the same thing as ending a war or somehow forcing the commander in chief to keep military on the front lines.

  22. Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by zookeeper View Post
    Why do I see so much politics allowed in the Current Events & Open Topics thread? These threads that are obviously going to get political are just as poisonous to this forum as that politics section.
    Probably my fault for posting it here... It was "current" and I naively assumed since we've been there since 2001, it was more of a "US" position rather than a GOP or DEM issue.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    So devil's advocate since everyone else on here seems to think pulling up and leaving is the thing to do ---- So we leave Afghanistan up to whatever fate has in store for it. The Taliban take it back over and resume using it as a base to export their brand of Islam. As can be seen by a group of Taliban who beheaded people solely because they went to a dance, is it reasonable to assume they will stop when they reach the border? Does the Taliban honor colonial borders? Do we just sit by until another 9-11 is launched? Do we just turn over the country to the Taliban until they have enough control and are able to organize enough to start attacking Packistan? What about the former Soviet countries to the north? Do you think the Taliban are just going to sit in Afghanistan and be happy with just that?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Can't out wait the Taliban...They will patiently wait for another decade if they have to while our finest continue to die...No thanks

  25. Default Re: Latest Taliban Atrocities

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    So devil's advocate since everyone else on here seems to think pulling up and leaving is the thing to do ---- So we leave Afghanistan up to whatever fate has in store for it. The Taliban take it back over and resume using it as a base to export their brand of Islam. As can be seen by a group of Taliban who beheaded people solely because they went to a dance, is it reasonable to assume they will stop when they reach the border? Does the Taliban honor colonial borders? Do we just sit by until another 9-11 is launched? Do we just turn over the country to the Taliban until they have enough control and are able to organize enough to start attacking Packistan? What about the former Soviet countries to the north? Do you think the Taliban are just going to sit in Afghanistan and be happy with just that?
    All your suppositions are valid. Personally I think we need to look at a punitive response for countries that allow safe haven, promotion or any type of support of terrorism. I'm against keeping boots on the ground trying to "rebuild" a legitimate goverment, but I fully support a proportional response to any wrongdoing visited upon the US or its citizens. As far as that goes, Saudis are some of the biggest supporters of terrorism across the globe (both financially and through their fundamentalist imams), yet they have gotten off scot free.

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