Traffic slowdowns on I35 South Downtown to Norman

[u50254082]

I recently started working Downtown and live in Moore.

I used to work in Norman.

I REALLY miss my commute.

But, why why why why is the rush hour traffic heading south on I35 always crawling, even when there are no accidents or construction? As far as I can tell, it's the places where I35 curves and bends that causes a 70MPH glide to abruptly slow to 20MPH or even stop dead. I've looked, and the speed limit does NOT change when approaching those curves.

I've been trying to use Shields to avoid the interstate, but even this has faults. Since it runs straight through many residential areas, you lose the momentum of commuter traffic when locals pull out into traffic and proceed to drive 20 under the speed limit. There's also the numerous speeding traps and school zones that really make it not a great choice for commuting.

I've even staggered my timing and left work earlier and later. No difference on I35 and maybe 5 minutes difference on Shields.

I guess I'm just venting. I know we don't have it terribly bad here, but in comparison, it was so nice to be able to drive South in the mornings and North in the evenings when I worked in Norman. It felt great to be able to actually drive the speed limit. My commute home today took 45 minutes when I left work at 5:30 PM. For whatever reason, traffic stopped dead on I35 around 89th St., and there really was no legitimate reason for it to do so.

Seems like a month ago I could manage the same commute in 20-25 minutes easily. What has changed?

[Spartan]

First of all, the speed limit is 60, not 70. I'm not chiding you for going 10 over like a normal person, but it is a bit tacky to rant about not being able to go 10 over during rush hour. Second of all, it's called RUSH HOUR. This is the highway at its peak capacity. You can not design highways, or a road system for that matter, to smoothly handle it's peak traffic without any congestion. Then you have a situation called induced traffic inwhich you enter a destructive spiral of creating more capacity that gets eaten up by an accelerated growth in congestion due to the expanded capacity.

I'd say accept the fact that you live out in the far suburbs and commute back and forth to downtown. That's the "American dream," right? That said, ODOT does need to make I-35/I-240 a higher priority because it is becoming a safety concern. The onramps are ridiculous.

[ljbab728]

Spartan is correct. One of the big problems in rush hour freeway traffic is people who want to drive in the left lane as far as possible and then try to squeeze over to the right when they need to exit. They always cause a big traffic slowdown. I don't see any way to avoid that though. People are always going to do that.

[Spartan]

Spartan is correct. One of the big problems in rush hour freeway traffic is people who want to drive in the left lane as far as possible and then try to squeeze over to the right when they need to exit. They always cause a big traffic slowdown. I don't see any way to avoid that though. People are always going to do that.

I've found a good way to remedy this, particularly on the new I-40 past the Penn exit - drive closer than you normally would to the car in front of you, the car behind you will start doing the same, and don't let those people in. They knew when they got on at Western, like everyone else, that it narrows to one lane past Penn due to construction. It's called taking responsibility and not free loading.

[adaniel]

I recently started working Downtown and live in Moore.

I used to work in Norman.

I REALLY miss my commute.

But, why why why why is the rush hour traffic heading south on I35 always crawling, even when there are no accidents or construction? As far as I can tell, it's the places where I35 curves and bends that causes a 70MPH glide to abruptly slow to 20MPH or even stop dead. I've looked, and the speed limit does NOT change when approaching those curves.

Long story short...too many cars, not enough road.

In 2005, 35 just south of downtown recorded 105K cars a day; in 2011, 136K cars used the same stretch of road a day. Thats actually the 2nd busiest point in the state (the first is I44 near the fairgrounds).

As long as I've been in OKC that stretch of 35 between 89th and downtown has always been bad, at least for local standards. While 45 minutes from DT to Moore seems long (it was raining this afternoon), you may have first started the commute and been lucky to get catch it on a good day, so I don't think anything has changed. Also, traffic is slow around 89th during the afternoon, simply because all of the craziness with cars trying to merge from 240 and get out of the exit-only lane to 82nd.

Its good to vent, but I think your options are pretty limited. We have 3 people in our office that work in Norman. They all generally arrive to and leave the office very early to miss out on traffic. Taking Shields or Western work fine if there is a wreck on 35 (and when it starts raining again trust me there will be wrecks), but its not going to save you a lot of time during a normal commute. Also, considering that Cleveland County is adding about 2,300 households a year, and I don't see too many office buildings being built in Moore, more commuters will probably be cramming on 35.

Have you considered possibly taking 44 then 40 into downtown?

If your job is fairly secure and its something you want to do long term, and the commute is just really wearing you down, you can always move to OKC. I loved Norman, but I eventually tired of the commute into downtown and moved in 2009 shortly after I graduated college. I now live in midtown and my commute is 2 miles roundtrip. One of my coworkers who drives from Norman is now looking for a place up here.

For something less dramatic, you can always get books-on-tape.

[BoulderSooner]

I've found a good way to remedy this, particularly on the new I-40 past the Penn exit - drive closer than you normally would to the car in front of you, the car behind you will start doing the same, and don't let those people in. They knew when they got on at Western, like everyone else, that it narrows to one lane past Penn due to construction. It's called taking responsibility and not free loading.

that is a good way for you to get in a wreck

[kevinpate]

I've found a good way to remedy this, particularly on the new I-40 past the Penn exit - drive closer than you normally would to the car in front of you, the car behind you will start doing the same, and don't let those people in. They knew when they got on at Western, like everyone else, that it narrows to one lane past Penn due to construction. It's called taking responsibility and not free loading.

It's also called following too close for conditions. If the chap or lass three cars up brakes hard when someone decides to muscle in past them, and several are squeezed tighter than norm to bar 'free loading', then more than one bumper is at risk of contact.

Road rage has a passive aggressive little cousin, and her name is tailgater. Don't date her. She may seem seductive and she may make you think you're a tad more in control, but give her half a chance and she'll bail on ya in a heartbeat and leave ya with a crumpled fender.

[Roadhawg]

I was coming up from DFW a couple weekends ago and there were a couple places one lane was closed. Plenty of warning was given but people insist on trying to get to the very end of the lane before it's blocked off so they can get ahead of everybody else. Those are the ones I wish people wouldn't let in.

[G.Walker]

I commute from Moore to Downtown also, its not that bad, takes me about 25 mins from my garage to my job's parking garage, not that bad, and I lived in what you may consider southeast Moore. I remember when I-35 was only 2 lanes from Norman all the way until you got passed Crossroads Mall, now that was crazy...

[LakeEffect]

I recently started working Downtown and live in Moore.

I used to work in Norman.

I REALLY miss my commute.

But, why why why why is the rush hour traffic heading south on I35 always crawling, even when there are no accidents or construction? As far as I can tell, it's the places where I35 curves and bends that causes a 70MPH glide to abruptly slow to 20MPH or even stop dead. I've looked, and the speed limit does NOT change when approaching those curves.

I've been trying to use Shields to avoid the interstate, but even this has faults. Since it runs straight through many residential areas, you lose the momentum of commuter traffic when locals pull out into traffic and proceed to drive 20 under the speed limit. There's also the numerous speeding traps and school zones that really make it not a great choice for commuting.

I've even staggered my timing and left work earlier and later. No difference on I35 and maybe 5 minutes difference on Shields.

I guess I'm just venting. I know we don't have it terribly bad here, but in comparison, it was so nice to be able to drive South in the mornings and North in the evenings when I worked in Norman. It felt great to be able to actually drive the speed limit. My commute home today took 45 minutes when I left work at 5:30 PM. For whatever reason, traffic stopped dead on I35 around 89th St., and there really was no legitimate reason for it to do so.

Seems like a month ago I could manage the same commute in 20-25 minutes easily. What has changed?

While I think Spartan and others make salient points (we shouldn't expect Rush Hour to be an easy commute), I do tend to understand the complaint. The issue is the curve. As an anecdote, it appears that drives in OKC cannot negotiate highway curves at speed. The same problems occur on Lake Hefner Parkway, I-235 and I-44, all of which I've had to take during rush hour at some point living in OKC. I've driven in multiple other (larger) metros/cities during rush hour, and traffic also goes much faster through curves. Here, it's like the curve causes drivers to become extremely self-conscious and nervous. Once one person slows down, the entire group must slow down.

Additionally, I've noticed that on I-35 south near where Shields merges in (or out, if you're going NB), the lanes go from the newest wide standard to a slightly narrower old standard. The visual affect causes many drivers to slow down, which makes commute times more congested since people subconsciously feel the need to drive slower in the less wide lanes.

[Spartan]

A curve in the road is an extremely rare thing around here.

[king183]

I make this drive every day, too, and I understand what the original poster is saying, which actually has little to do with Rush Hour itself or the amount of road. I leave my work in OKC around 6:30 and I experience the same phenomenon. His complaint is that there are inexplicable slowdowns on certain portions of the interstate. No accidents, nothing. People just come to a crawl.

I believe Cafe Beouf is likely correct: drivers here, for some ungodly reason, can't negotiate a curve. When you hit that curve on I35 south, people act as if a mountain has suddenly sprung up in front of them and slow down to 30 mph to get around it and then speed back up. That's the most frustrating part of the commute, simply because it isn't difficult to maintain 60mph going around that slight curve.

The other frustrating part is the jam that occurs at the I40 interchange, but that's easily explainable because of the terrible design of I35 south in that area, which causes some drivers to have to merge twice in order to avoid lanes that become exits.

(By the way, the speed limit is 70 in part of the stretch of I35 south we're discussing. Perhaps that's the part of the problem--changing from 60 to 70 back to 60.)

[u50254082]

Phew I am glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed the curve phenomenon.

I mean, its called Rush Hour for a reason but on the same note, OKC is still fairly light population wise compared to others metros. It just boggles my mind that the traffic on I35 can feel like it's backed up due to a accident and the actual reason is people are failing to recognize that the curves in the interstate are banked to allow you to maintain speed.

I can only imagine how these same drivers would respond to the 500FT highway ramps in Dallas. I can bet you that Texas drivers don't take kindly to anyone slowiing down to 15mph because of a minor change of road elevation.

[venture]

The curves in the road is the only explanation that makes any sense. Nothing else would seem to give an reason for a slow down. Of course the 19th street exit can get backed up a bit and people love zipping down the left lane and then cut over at the last minute.

I wouldn't really blame the speed limit changes much. Going south it is pretty well tiered until you go past Tecumseh where it drops from 70 to 60 without an intermediate 65 section...when there probably should be one until Rock Creek. Of course if OHP is sitting there in the median just after the 77 exit, people always slam on the brakes and go 55 even if they were only doing 70 to begin with.

Not really sure what else can be done. I guess they could always make the left lane an HOV/commuter lane from 240 until Indian Hill. That would give commuters a better option to just get in a lane and go. The other thing that I would also like to see this state finally do is prohibit trucks from using anything but the right two lanes. They also can lead to some pretty big slow downs for no reason other than to pass the other semi going 0.5 mph slow than itself.

[ou48A]

High profile vehicles and drivers who are overly cautious tend to slow down when approaching a curve. This causes a chain reaction that slows down each vehicle behind them by slightly higher average amounts with each vehicle.
It takes time for the vehicles on the highway to recover to its speed limit and depending on the traffic load it can take a long time.

Sometimes a commute can be helped by finding a better time period. Adjusting your drive by as little as 5 minutes can sometimes make a big difference. Try adjusting your time several times by 5 minutes and see if it doesn’t help.

This type of congestion will only grow worse and is justification IMHO for a real commuter rail system in the greater OKCA area,

[RadicalModerate]

When i used to get on The (whutveah) Freeway leading on a scenic journey through the high-speed vehicle operators--on a major LeagueCityFreeway i felt blessed. By the fact that I avoid a collision with someone holding up traffic by not driving The SpeedLimit.

Even then . . . I wondereed . . . Like maybe 15 years ago . .
So why don't theseassholesaroundrhere reduce the Speed Limit to Around 35 in order to avoid relatively connectedaccident while traffic onto and off of The Ramps ain't bein' dealt wid'?

But that was then . . .
This is now . . .
And so it goes . . .

EditedtoAdd:
Howaboutthe OKCCental Wildcat Boulevard? . . .withall the upsndns?
I think that there is a good chance that The Local Powers'That Be (and the naftarinans, noncanadian)
would get behind that . . .

Sheet . . . Call it Springlake/Blackhawk Blvd. and it'll be a tourist attraction.
Regardless o' cost. =)9

[kevinpate]

And here I was thinking it was primarily to avoid over eager radar units from Moore and the general notion of if I might die on the interstate it sure as hades ain't gonna happen in Moore.

[u50254082]

When i used to get on The (whutveah) Freeway leading on a scenic journey through the high-speed vehicle operators--on a major LeagueCityFreeway i felt blessed. By the fact that I avoid a collision with someone holding up traffic by not driving The SpeedLimit.

Even then . . . I wondereed . . . Like maybe 15 years ago . .
So why don't theseassholesaroundrhere reduce the Speed Limit to Around 35 in order to avoid relatively connectedaccident while traffic onto and off of The Ramps ain't bein' dealt wid'?

But that was then . . .
This is now . . .
And so it goes . . .

EditedtoAdd:
Howaboutthe OKCCental Wildcat Boulevard? . . .withall the upsndns?
I think that there is a good chance that The Local Powers'That Be (and the naftarinans, noncanadian)
would get behind that . . .

Sheet . . . Call it Springlake/Blackhawk Blvd. and it'll be a tourist attraction.
Regardless o' cost. =)9

what

[Dubya61]

The curves on I-40 near Tinker also seem to slow down traffic a bit.

[soonerliberal]

We are home to some of the straightest highways in the country... Maybe it's not the highway, but the drivers.

[Lindsay Architect]

I work near Chesapeake and live in Norman. With I-35 traffic, I can exit broadway heading south, continue to Moore through shields and get out ahead of the curve at Sheilds. It may take 5 more minutes? All in all more scenery and you may drive a little slower, but it's not the constant stop and go on I-235 heading south, then at the I-40 interchange, then at 15th, then at 44th, then at crossroads, 89th... The only hurdle is 19th in Moore. Sheilds is pretty underused and surprisingly fast.

[WilliamTell]

This is a general comment - but one of the best experiences ive had was when I lived 10-15 minutes away from my work. Looking back it was amazing how much easier lunch or after work errands, running home, and daily commute were because of where I lived. I dont want to talk to much because I live over 30 minutes each way now, but i think most people would be much happier if they lived close to work.

[Snowman]

I make this drive every day, too, and I understand what the original poster is saying, which actually has little to do with Rush Hour itself or the amount of road. I leave my work in OKC around 6:30 and I experience the same phenomenon. His complaint is that there are inexplicable slowdowns on certain portions of the interstate. No accidents, nothing. People just come to a crawl.

I believe Cafe Beouf is likely correct: drivers here, for some ungodly reason, can't negotiate a curve. When you hit that curve on I35 south, people act as if a mountain has suddenly sprung up in front of them and slow down to 30 mph to get around it and then speed back up. That's the most frustrating part of the commute, simply because it isn't difficult to maintain 60mph going around that slight curve.

The other frustrating part is the jam that occurs at the I40 interchange, but that's easily explainable because of the terrible design of I35 south in that area, which causes some drivers to have to merge twice in order to avoid lanes that become exits.

(By the way, the speed limit is 70 in part of the stretch of I35 south we're discussing. Perhaps that's the part of the problem--changing from 60 to 70 back to 60.)

The same thing happens on i40 with no curves west of town, it seems like the people who drive exactly at or below the speed limit tend to find each other and create a moving clog, a fare amount of these tend to be the same who are unwilling to yield the lane when opportunities are present to do so even with hundreds of feet to miles of free space ahead of them to people who would be driving faster. After it gets clogged though it will tend to get worse as more people bunch up behind them. It seems to happen far more after cell phones got popular.

[kevinpate]

This is a general comment - but one of the best experiences ive had was when I lived 10-15 minutes away from my work. Looking back it was amazing how much easier lunch or after work errands, running home, and daily commute were because of where I lived. I dont want to talk to much because I live over 30 minutes each way now, but i think most people would be much happier if they lived close to work.

Canna argue. Except for 07-09, I've lived less than five miles from my principle work site since moving to this area in 86. And even in that two year window the commute distance was < 18 miles.

The only time I've lived further out was 84-86. We were at NSU in Tahlequah. We worked a weekend shift at a youth shelter about 80 iles away. It helped offset school costs and as an added bonus, we had kin in that community. We saw them far more than we would have if we'd taken weekend work on or near the campus.

[heyerdahl]

Are you guys really trying to find alternative explanations for why traffic is not moving at 70 mph during rush hour? It is rush hour... It is not that mysterious. The road reaches capacity and maybe approaches level of service E during this hour. That's pretty appropriate (even good) for rush hour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_service