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  1. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by jett713 View Post
    I'm sure if cannabis were legalized at the federal level, they would no longer test for it as they don't test for alcohol. Unless you go to work drunk. You kind of sound like the kid who is going to take his toys and go home, if cannabis were to be legalized. I know plenty of people who smoke on a regular basis and make good money.
    Cannabinoids are the cash cow of the drug testing industry. If not for pot, the only positives would be amphetamines, opiates, and ANGEL DUST (boy, I bet those users get popped at work often, lol).

    No way, NO way, would they drop pot, any more than they'd give up testing for improper (nonprescribed) use of otherwise legal substances.

    Add: Pot remains on the list not because it's dangerous; simply, it's detectable in urine far longer than any other prohibited substance. Positive drug tests sell drug hysteria.

    $

  2. #202

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    If you are suggesting that making pot legal won't result in more teens getting stoned, I have to disagree with you.
    This is I think the only strong argument against legalization. But it turns out the places that have legalized haven't seen increases in usage, including teens. If you want to provide proof to the contrary, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    My point - that you are glossing over and is NOT a strawman - is that I don't want my daughter making life changing decisions whether she is stoned OR drunk. Assuming that it won't be "my" child that has a problem is a burying your head in the sand. No child is immune and you never know which one can handle it and which can't.
    I'm not burying my head in the sand. I'm saying its parents' responsibility to raise their children. If your 15 year old daughter gets stoned and pregnant it was because she wasn't raised right. Johnny Law can't fix parenting problems. Counseling and treatment programs might, but not incarceration.

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    And I didn't bring kids into this - the discussion about kids began when someone else said they'd rather their child smoke pot than drink.
    The guy you quoted believes kids should do drugs. Is he really worthy of a response?

    Quote Originally Posted by PennyQuilts View Post
    Every kid I ever tried to work with whose personality had changed to surly and withdrawn - and who was dropping out of school - and who had became dishonest and deceitful to hide their habit - would spout the same sorts of arguments, i.e., that pot smoking is harmless and better than drinking.
    I never said it was harmless. I would put it between energy drinks and alcohol in terms of harm. It is much much less harmful than tobacco and prescription painkillers.

  3. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
    stick47, out of curiosity what is your position on the use of cell phones while driving?
    Out of curiosity, what is your position Kokopelli? Personally, I don't like people talking on cell phones while driving and I sure as hell don't want the person behind me texting. Fortunately my car is bluetooth enabled and I can tell a huge difference with just my driving. It is easier to make calls, take calls, and talk. In fact, it is no different than talking to someone in the seat next to me. As for not imparing motor skllls - that is pure crazy talk. I watched my brother get high a thousand times and his judgement and reaction time was so skewed it was scarry. If pot doesn't effect your mental capacity why are you smoking it?

    There are 2 states that now allow recreational pot, why don't we give them a few years to see if it works out or not. If smoking pot means that much to someone I suggest they move to Washington or Colorado ASAP.

  4. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    I personally have no problem with legalizing small amounts of marijuana for recreational use. I most likely would not participate - for no other reason than I've just never been the type to need artificial stimulants other than some caffeine and enjoying life. Tried pot in high school and a little in college, but I just didn't get the attraction to it. But, anyone who supports it because they think it doesn't impair the user's motor skills, judgement and/or mental/physical state is simply wrong. As pointed out above.... that's exactly why people use it.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    The reality is we don't know whether marijuana affects driving ability because blood tests aren't done regularly. Any evidence I provide on that would be anecdotal because blood tests are expensive and uncommon. So I agree lets wait and see. I happened to notice when you said you were diagnosed with cancer JTF, so I'm curious why you are so adamantly against a substance that could provide relief to you in the future.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by LandRunOkie View Post
    The reality is we don't know whether marijuana affects driving ability because blood tests aren't done regularly.
    I predict that when legalized marijunana is combined with cell phones, traffic will stop moving altogether.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    I predict that when legalized marijunana is combined with cell phones, traffic will stop moving altogether.
    and we'll be able to discover the number of marijuana influenced drivers by counting the

    Click image for larger version. 

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    psychedelic billboards along the roadways.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    I predict that when legalized marijunana is combined with cell phones, traffic will stop moving altogether.
    Nah, someone will create apps for find oreos and find cheetos. It'll be dicey near C-stores and probably T-bell, but otherwise traffic will flow fine.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.


  10. #210

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post

    There are 2 states that now allow recreational pot, why don't we give them a few years to see if it works out or not. If smoking pot means that much to someone I suggest they move to Washington or Colorado ASAP.
    Or they will continue to live here and easily buy it off the street relatively risk free.

    And Im quite certain we will see CO and WA new laws work well as it has everywhere else in the world that has decriminalized it. It just takes a while to debunk decades of misinformation and unnecessary paranoia.

  11. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by LandRunOkie View Post
    The reality is we don't know whether marijuana affects driving ability because blood tests aren't done regularly. Any evidence I provide on that would be anecdotal because blood tests are expensive and uncommon. So I agree lets wait and see. I happened to notice when you said you were diagnosed with cancer JTF, so I'm curious why you are so adamantly against a substance that could provide relief to you in the future.
    If pot has a medical use then we should extract it from the plant and put it in a pill that provides the positive health benefits and doesn't alter the patient's mental capacity.

  12. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Or they will continue to live here and easily buy it off the street relatively risk free.

    And Im quite certain we will see CO and WA new laws work well as it has everywhere else in the world that has decriminalized it. It just takes a while to debunk decades of misinformation and unnecessary paranoia.
    The new laws might work perfectly fine. All I am saying is wait 5 year or so and find out if they do. What if in 5 years Mexican gangs are killing people all over Colorado? Mexico decrimalized drugs about 6 years ago and look what happened there.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    I suggest we look, instead, toward Amsterdam for guidance . . .
    Particularly toward the versions of "Wallender"--with subtitles--that dramatize the unintended consequences of importation of substances into Sweden across a long bridge on motorcycles . . .

  14. #214

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    If pot has a medical use then we should extract it from the plant and put it in a pill that provides the positive health benefits and doesn't alter the patient's mental capacity.
    Because you start to feel the relief from pot almost immediately. Plus, why do I need Big Pharm to make a pill for me (when I dont know whats in it) when I could use the all natural pot. And before you say that the smoke is harmful, you can always use a vaporizer that is smokeless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    The new laws might work perfectly fine. All I am saying is wait 5 year or so and find out if they do. What if in 5 years Mexican gangs are killing people all over Colorado? Mexico decrimalized drugs about 6 years ago and look what happened there.
    The violence in Mexico has nothing to do with them decriminalizing pot (I wasnt even aware they did). I think it has more to do with controlling the lucrative drug routes that come into our country. Something that wouldnt happen if we decriminalized pot. All you have to do is look at prohibition to see how decriminalization will put the illegal drug dealers out of business and put in business legitimate dispenseries that pay taxes and are regulated.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    I think that it is high time we quit pointing the finger of blame toward The Southern Border . . .

    Canada: Even Bigger Than Greenland on A Mercator Projection.

    ("space weed" is worth a click . . . =)

  16. #216

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by LandRunOkie View Post

    The guy you quoted believes kids should do drugs. Is he really worthy of a response?

    That is the stupidest conclusion to what I said that I can imagine.

    I have known lots of potheads and drunks through the years. Not once have I seen someone so stoned that they lost complete control of their faculties like I have drunks. Nor have I seen anyone smoke themselves to death with marijuana like I have literally seen two friends drink themselves to death. I stand by my statement that if I had my druthers I would rather MY kids to partake of pot before alcohol, if they must partake at all.

    To say I advocated letting kids do drugs is just sheer stupidity.

  17. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Because you start to feel the relief from pot almost immediately. Plus, why do I need Big Pharm to make a pill for me (when I dont know whats in it) when I could use the all natural pot. And before you say that the smoke is harmful, you can always use a vaporizer that is smokeless.
    Like I have said a thousand times - if a state thinks it is the key to prosperous and happy society let them give it a try. If a state thinks it will do harm to the society they should be free to restrict access. I am all for states having the ability to decide. The state that comes up with the best combination would then be seen as a model for the others.

  18. #218

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Just the facts; just seen your post from this morning so to reply to your question. I am not for cell phone usage while driving. Studies have shown that it is comparable to drunk driving and what I see everyday while driving would confirm that. No question texting is the big culprit. At this point I would have no problem if new laws against it were enacted.

    Yes, marijuana impacts motor skills. But that alone is not reason enough to not legalize it.

    Once one gets past the small issues and we look at the bigger picture it is easy to see that what we have been doing for the past 40 years, in the War against drugs, is not working.

    In the last 5-6 years there have been more deaths in Mexico than there was during the Vietnam war and it has nothing to do with the fact that Mexico relaxed their drug laws, rather it has everything to do with Americans appetite for drugs.

    History has shown us that prohibition was a boon for organized crime and the drug war is confirming the same. And as recent events here in Oklahoma have shown they are now bold enough to add human trafficking to their menu. Additionally, now our National Parks are being used for marijuana farms. So the problems seem to be getting bigger.

    So again what we are doing is NOT working and we have been spending major bucks for the failure

  19. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Serious questions... In states where it has been legalized, is it actually legalized, or really just decriminalized? Since it is still illegal at the fed level, I assume they are not packaging and taxing it.

    Even if it is packaged and taxed, will that stem the tide of illegal marijuana coming north across the boarder? If so, in your opinion, how long would that take?

    Would they be able to continue to sell the non-taxed stuff? How long will it take to make the legally sold and taxed stuff more popular than the imported non-taxed version?

  20. #220

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
    Yes, marijuana impacts motor skills. But that alone is not reason enough to not legalize it.
    I can tell you when I went to Breckenridge, there were a lot of people who were high that were a lot better skiers than I was. And I'm not bad, done a couple black diamonds.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomPaine View Post
    Serious questions... In states where it has been legalized, is it actually legalized, or really just decriminalized? Since it is still illegal at the fed level, I assume they are not packaging and taxing it.

    Even if it is packaged and taxed, will that stem the tide of illegal marijuana coming north across the boarder? If so, in your opinion, how long would that take?

    Would they be able to continue to sell the non-taxed stuff? How long will it take to make the legally sold and taxed stuff more popular than the imported non-taxed version?
    Lately the DEA in LA has been focusing only on dispensaries that break local regulations and the ones that are close to schools. The city council there voted to ban all dispensaries but that was somehow overthrown. It became legal in California for medical use with Prop 215, which passed in 1996. The grey area has gotten smaller over time and it is more legal now than almost ever before in California.
    No the cannabis is not inspected and packaged where it legal. There is somewhat of an honor system where tax is collected like a sales tax, to my knowledge. I'm sure state regulators have the right to audit pot shops they suspect aren't paying their fair share.
    The pot sold through LA dispensaries is slightly more expensive than its street equivalent, due to the taxes and business expenses like utilities and rent.
    Every smoker I know prefers the type of weed sold by dispensaries, known as bud, to "brick weed." The cartels specialize in brick weed because it is easy to smuggle. Most pot smokers prefer bud, which is much harder to smuggle because it is higher volume and more fragile. So it wouldn't take long at all to cripple the cartels' marijuana trade.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomPaine View Post
    Serious questions... In states where it has been legalized, is it actually legalized, or really just decriminalized? Since it is still illegal at the fed level, I assume they are not packaging and taxing it.

    Even if it is packaged and taxed, will that stem the tide of illegal marijuana coming north across the boarder? If so, in your opinion, how long would that take?

    Would they be able to continue to sell the non-taxed stuff? How long will it take to make the legally sold and taxed stuff more popular than the imported non-taxed version?
    Would they be able to continue to sell the non-taxed stuff? How long will it take to make the legally sold and taxed stuff more popular than the imported non-taxed version?[/QUOTE]

    I believe that they just decriminalized it. Colorado and Washington plan to tax it and are currently working out the details. Those details include trying to figure out how the feds are going to react.

  22. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Bureau of Alcohol. Tobacco, and Firearms. All 3 legal yet we have entire division of the Justice Department to prevent crimes committed for all 3.

    ATF Online - About ATF - Mission / Vision / Values

    A unique law enforcement agency in the United States Department of Justice that protects our communities from violent criminals, criminal organizations, the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, the illegal use and storage of explosives, acts of arson and bombings, acts of terrorism, and the illegal diversion of alcohol and tobacco products.
    I'm just saying if you think crime goes away with legalization I think you will be disappointed.

    http://www.atf.gov/alcohol-tobacco/

    Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 (PACT Act) Notice
    On March 31, 2010, President Obama signed into law the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 (PACT Act). The law goes into effect on June 29, 2010. Please review the PACT Act Registration Information and Publications on the right side of this page for updated information.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fact sheet on cigarette smuggling

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...-diversion.pdf

  23. #223

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    No crime won't go away with legalization. No one has said that. But I do believe that the dollars we are spending on the drug war could be spent more effectively and that legalizing marijuana would help us focus more on crimes that really matter.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomPaine View Post
    Even if it is packaged and taxed, will that stem the tide of illegal marijuana coming north across the boarder? If so, in your opinion, how long would that take?

    Would they be able to continue to sell the non-taxed stuff? How long will it take to make the legally sold and taxed stuff more popular than the imported non-taxed version?
    With CO and WA completely decriminalizing it (not just for medicinal purposes like Cali) I imagine it will completely make them useless to the drug cartels. With it being completely legal, I imagine the price will come down a bit making the legal stuff you buy the obvious choice, rather than off the street. Even if price didnt come down and stayed about the same, people will still buy from legal dispenseries. So basically you put the cartels out of business in your state rather quickly, I would think.

    Another thought (guess, maybe) of mine is that there is possibly an additional benefit to decriminalizing pot, especially in a state that has a meth problem like Oklahoma. If pot were legal, and thus turned out to be cheaper than it is now off the street, you might have some habitual druggies smoking pot since its legal, easy, and sort of cheap rather than meth all the time.

  25. Default Re: Time to Legalize Cannabis for recreational and medicinal use.

    Thanks for the answers. Like I mentioned, I was vehemently opposed to the legalization, but the more research I do, and the more folks in law enforcement I talk to, the more I think I may change my mind. As of now, I'm a fence sitter. I wouldn't vote for a politician one way or the other based on this issue.

    I'm open minded, but cautious (being a parent). Legal or not, I would prefer my kids avoid it, as with tobacco. Label me a hypocrite, but I don't mind them drinking once they reach 21, as long as they obey the law.

    Thanks again, overall, a pretty mature discussion on the topic!

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