Cannabis

[soonerguru]

...until we remember why it was made illegal in the first place.

And why was that, do tell?

[Just the facts]

And why was that, do tell?

Lots of reasons are given, but in that list was the problem that far too many people were becoming addicted to substances that altered their state of mind. It was essentially a public health risk, known today as a 'national security' issue. Pot got lumped in with all other addictive substances including alcohol (cigarettes while addictive, don't alter the state of mind) and all were controlled. In a world where 32 oz. Cokes are banned I have to wonder what the motivation is to legalize pot. I hope it isn't to create more dependents or to apply the slippery slope strategy.

[ThomPaine]

I have been against this for years. Probably because I have a couple of children, and the less "legal" opportunities to waste time and effort the better. The recent elections prompted me to re-look the issue.

As with most things, I try to have an open mind and search out folks with differing opinions to see if I am not looking at all sides. Obviously, I avoided the usual suspects (anyone who fits the stereotypical stoner image) and instead, went to people I respect. In this case, I spoke to some law enforcement friends from OKC, Tulsa, and a statewide agency.

All three were in their late forties, with decades of experience in their respective agencies. All three supported the legalization of marijuana, and the highest ranking officer was in favor of expanding that to other illicit drugs.

Their reasoning was based on the resources "wasted" on trying to enforce the laws, the number of people incarcerated for non-violent crimes, and the possible loss of tax revenue. All agreed that there would be second and third order effects, especially with the legalization of other drugs, and that these would need to be addressed and tax dollars would have to be spent in those areas. They figure the money saved on arresting, jailing, and housing recreational users could be shifted to cover down on those other areas.

I think they may have changed my mind, but it will be a long time before it comes to pass in Oklahoma.

[LandRunOkie]

I have to wonder what the motivation is to legalize pot. I hope it isn't to create more dependents or to apply the slippery slope strategy.

No one is going to advocate for dependency. The best three arguments for legalization in my opinion are
-cost and ineffectiveness of prohibition
It costs over $40,000/year to incarcerate each prisoner. So with every prisoner we let go free we can afford to hire another public school teacher.

-racial justice
Last year 86% of those who pled guilty to marijuana possession in Chicago were black males. While they represent only 17% of the population.

-democracy
over 50% of people are in favor of full legalization of marijuana according to the highly trusted Gallup polls
(see attachment). Popular support has doubled in the last 17 years from 25% to 50% and can be expected to continue.

Sorry JTF, didn't mean to preach, but I thought someone as knowledgeable on urban issues as you would be more familiar with the legalization arguments..

[Just the facts]

Totally unrelated story

Exclusive: John McAfee Wanted for Murder (Updated)

[Bunty]

...until we remember why it was made illegal in the first place.

Yeah, like over outrageous racism and groundless corporate fears. No, hemp with all its supposed greatness, won't overwhelm and rule the industrial world. It was a totally different world in 1937 when marijuana was essentially banned. Interesting that the American Medical Association, who did not support it, was not taken seriously. Instead, a researcher who injected marijuana extractions in the brains of 300 dogs and two of them died made a strong impression. These days, the researcher would have been rightfully arrested for mass animal cruelty. The more and more people who find out the ugly facts of what formed the basis that prohibited marijuana, the faster prohibition of it will fall. The disgusting historical mistakes that led to marijuana prohibition must be corrected.

[Bunty]

In a world where 32 oz. Cokes are banned I have to wonder what the motivation is to legalize pot. I hope it isn't to create more dependents or to apply the slippery slope strategy.

But in Oklahoma, where people can get sentenced to prison for many years over pot, the laws have created a number of total dependents upon the government. If I'm right, there is little or no leniency given to people who are caught growing pot.

[Dubya61]

I fully support legalization, but wonder: is there a way to test for it similar to a breathalyzer test? What restrictions would be place on it? Can you operate a motor vehicle or heavy equipment (or perform surgery, etc.) if using? Did Colorado institute a "level" of use? or a sobering period?

[onthestrip]

I fully support legalization, but wonder: is there a way to test for it similar to a breathalyzer test? What restrictions would be place on it? Can you operate a motor vehicle or heavy equipment (or perform surgery, etc.) if using? Did Colorado institute a "level" of use? or a sobering period?

CO and WA will both have measures in place to determine if a driver is DUI of pot. I think it is a blood test that measures the level of THC. The interesting thing is the fact that its probably easier to tell if someone is drunk rather than high.

[kevinpate]

legalize for recreational and medicinal use ... sounds a bit like getting stoned and playing doctor.

[Just the facts]

But in Oklahoma, where people can get sentenced to prison for many years over pot, the laws have created a number of total dependents upon the government. If I'm right, there is little or no leniency given to people who are caught growing pot.

Do you ever wonder why someone would risk years in prison over getting high? Does that seem like a logical well thought out decision, or do you think it is possible that smoking an addictive substance might be clouding their judgment just a bit?

[Bunty]

Do you ever wonder why someone would risk years in prison over getting high? Does that seem like a logical well thought out decision, or do you think it is possible that smoking an addictive substance might be clouding their judgment just a bit?

So? Anti marijuana laws are crazy and hypocritical, made in very poor judgment from the past. One is free to grow tobacco in Oklahoma, even though it's been proven smoking it causes lung cancer. Since it's been proven that smoking pot can't cause lung cancer, the ones smoking pot, rather than tobacco, are actually doing something in smarter, better judgment. It's further smarter, considering how cigarettes contain over 1000 chemicals, while joints contain a little over 400 chemicals.

So it's really Oklahoma's insane laws against marijuana, made decades ago are what is cast in clouded judgment, likely drawn up by ignorant legislators while working in a tobacco smoke filled room at the State Capitol.

[Achilleslastand]

Marijuana possession, sale, and manufacture are regulated by both state and federal law. In Oklahoma, marijuana is classified as a Schedule I substance, which means that it has a high potential for abuse and no generally recognized medical value. (63 Ok. Stat. Ann. § 2-204.) Also, while not covered in this article, it is a crime to drive under the influence of marijuana in Oklahoma.

For information about charges and penalties for driving under the influence of marijuana in Oklahoma, see Driving Under the Influence of Marijuana in Oklahoma.

Marijuana Possession
It is a crime to knowingly or intentionally possess marijuana (including small amounts for personal use) in Oklahoma. In addition to a possible fine, the judge will sentence a defendant to up to a year in jail for a first offense, and between two and ten years in prison for a second or subsequent offense. (63 Ok. Stat. Ann. § 2-401.)

Manufacture and Sales
Manufacturing or selling marijuana (or possessing marijuana with the intent to do so) in Oklahoma is illegal. Penalties vary according to the amount possessed, manufactured, or sold. Penalties may double for sales to a minor, and for violations that take place within 2,000 feet of a school, park or public housing units. (63 Ok. Stat. Ann. § 2-401.)

•Cultivating up to 1,000 plants, or selling up 25 pounds. Penalties include a fine of up to $20,000, between two years and life imprisonment, or both.
•Cultivating 1,000 or more plants. Penalties include a fine of up to $50,000, between 20 years and life imprisonment, or both.
•Selling between 25 and 1,000 pounds. Penalties include a fine of between $25,000 and $100,000, between four years and life imprisonment, or both.
•Selling 1,000 pounds or more. Penalties include a fine of between $100,000 and $500,000, between four years and life imprisonment, or both.
Drug Paraphernalia
It is illegal in Oklahoma to manufacture or sell drug paraphernalia (or possess paraphernalia with the intent to do so). Paraphernalia includes items used in growing, harvesting, processing, selling, storing, or using marijuana. A conviction may be punished with up to a year in jail, and a fine of up to $1,000 for a first offense; up to $5,000 for a second offense; and up to $10,000 for a third or subsequent offense. (63 Ok. Stat. Ann. § 2-101.1.)


Stamp Tax
A stamp tax is a tax imposed on certain types of transactions (such as the transfer of property) that requires a stamp to be purchased and attached either to the item sold or to an instrument documenting the transaction (such as a deed). The federal government imposes stamp taxes on deeds, the issue and transfer of stocks and bonds, and on playing cards.

In Oklahoma, those who buy, transport, or import marijuana into Oklahoma are required to pay a stamp tax and place the stamp (proof of payment) onto the contraband. However, because the possession of marijuana is illegal, people typically don’t pay the stamp tax. When you are convicted for possession, you will also be liable for payment of the unpaid taxes ($3.50 for each gram or portion of a gram). (68 Ok. Stat. Ann. § 450.2.)


The stamp tax bit was especially good for a laugh.

[stick47]

The difference between pot and alcohol use is that if you run to 7-11 and get hit by a DUI driver it's more likely going to happen in the late hours of the evening. Whereas if the driver that hits you is on pot it could just as easily happen at 10 am or 3 pm. Regular pot smokers stay stoned 24-7. I think our roads are dangerous enough without legalizing another gateway to traffic carnage.

[LandRunOkie]

The difference between pot and alcohol use is ...

That marijuana doesn't impair motor skills and alcohol does. They say about 20% of drivers on the road are impaired at any given time.. but when was the last time you heard of a stoner causing a fatality crash?

When you also weigh in the factor that marijuana use doesn't go up in places where it is legalized, and the fact that DUI for stoned drivers is still in effect in all states with medical marijuana, you'll see your argument is based on fear, not facts.

One more thing: Employers will always be allowed to drug test employees. And I'm not against drug testing people applying for food stamps, public housing, or medicare. The question is whether the GOVERNMENT should prohibit MATURE RESPONSIBLE adults from consuming marijuana.

[stick47]

marijuana doesn't impair motor skills

If that's been your experience I think you should ask your dealer for a refund.

[ThomPaine]

That marijuana doesn't impair motor skills and alcohol does. They say about 20% of drivers on the road are impaired at any given time.. but when was the last time you heard of a stoner causing a fatality crash?

When you also weigh in the factor that marijuana use doesn't go up in places where it is legalized, and the fact that DUI for stoned drivers is still in effect in all states with medical marijuana, you'll see your argument is based on fear, not facts.

One more thing: Employers will always be allowed to drug test employees. And I'm not against drug testing people applying for food stamps, public housing, or medicare. The question is whether the GOVERNMENT should prohibit MATURE RESPONSIBLE adults from consuming marijuana.

Just a friendly piece of advice... If you want to lobby for the legalization of marijuana, don't include this in your argument. Many other places to start, but this one won't get traction with lawmakers or non-smokers in the populace.

[LandRunOkie]

If that's been your experience I think you should ask your dealer for a refund.

Is marijuana funny or deadly? Make up your mind.

Many other places to start, but this one won't get traction with lawmakers or non-smokers in the populace.

I didn't start here. Refer to post #129 for where I started.

[kevinpate]

If that's been your experience I think you should ask your dealer for a refund.

I don't much care whether someone is pro or con on cannabis ... I laughed, loudly.

[stick47]

I'm old enough to remember this one

[bluedogok]

There are probably more people under the influence and impaired from prescription drugs on the roads at any time than there is marijuana.

[stick47]

There are probably more people under the influence and impaired from prescription drugs on the roads at any time than there is marijuana.

Yes but legalizing pot will compound the problem of impaired drivers.

[bluedogok]

I doubt it, at least the medical legalization here doesn't seem to have affected DUI much, DUI under prescription drugs is still a larger concern here than medical marijuana. Most people who are willing to drive impaired are going to whether it is legal to buy or not.

[Kokopelli]

stick47, out of curiosity what is your position on the use of cell phones while driving?

[stick47]

There are instances when I answer my cell while driving. I don't answer if it would create a possible risk. FYI I've been driving for 50 years and that includes having an M stamp on my license plus more than a few years of drag racing. (on the track where it's legal)
My level of driving ability is probably not going to improve but I think I'm still far above the average motorist as far as skill level goes.