Cannabis

[kevinpate]

Not a cause I see me donating to. Buying a lotto ticket and setting it ablaze an hour before drawing would seem to still have better odds for a return. Good idea or no, as to something happening in OK, the folks at the 4th floor, Sen Johnson notwithstanding, aren't going to get on board anytime soon. As for an initiative petition, even if the funding could be raised, a vote in 2014, with a strong R ballot statewide and a mobilized conservachurch base suggests to me the outcome would be, at best, 58-42 against (and I suspect it wouldn't be that close.)

[bluedogok]

The petition process is much more open for Colorado than it is in Oklahoma or Texas, just like getting candidates on the ballot. The powers that be (the two parties) don't want anyone like the populace challenging their authority.

[kevinpate]

The petition process is much more open for Colorado than it is in Oklahoma or Texas, just like getting candidates on the ballot. The powers that be (the two parties) don't want anyone like the populace challenging their authority.

Except when they punt matters to the populace to avoid the heat for it.

[LandRunOkie]

Not a cause I see me donating to.

With you being a lawyer in a college town, there is a decent chance you have a financial interest in the draconian marijuana possession laws standing pat. I was in traffic court one time in Norman and saw several poor youth pleading guilty to possession charges and fines upward of $500. So it is certainly big business there. Just sayin, if you are going to try to discourage us, there is some background worth knowing. Regardless, the issue will eventually be decided by public opinion, not a couple of internet experts, lol.

[kevinpate]

LandrunOkie, recognizing reality is not the same as agreeing, or disagreeing, with a likely outcome.

As for any financial interest in the current laws remaining in place, nopers. If the law on pot changes, it changes. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I think the odds are extremely remote for legalization to happen in Oklahoma, but I'm not inclined to finance either camp. Now, if such a change were to occur, I am convinced the world will neither end in a fireball nor will it become all cotton candy and lollipops. It might have a lot more cheetos dust, and some dockets will be a tad less crowded, but that'll be about it.

I rarely visit Norman muni beyond the occasional child of a friend or friend of a child matter. However, I am aware that many substance offenses processed through there arise out of folks being in possession in a place that draws attention to them. Often times this includes sitting at a picnic table, or in a car in the parking lot, of a city park, long after the park is closed for the night. Why folks think parks are not regularly patrolled and that dark makes them invisible is beyond me, but it's rather common.

[Bunty]

As for any financial interest in the current laws remaining in place, nopers. If the law on pot changes, it changes. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I think the odds are extremely remote for legalization to happen in Oklahoma, but I'm not inclined to finance either camp. Now, if such a change were to occur, I am convinced the world will neither end in a fireball nor will it become all cotton candy and lollipops. It might have a lot more cheetos dust, and some dockets will be a tad less crowded, but that'll be about it.

In the mid 1990s, probably a lot of people thought it would be a long time, if ever, when lotteries, casinos, and tattoo application would be legalized in Oklahoma. But within 10 years, those things got legalized. So I think marijuana will be legalized in Oklahoma before too many years. It will reflect how the rise of the Internet has helped speed up the need for cultural change. But the highly intense apathy by the public in Oklahoma regarding the need for significant drug law reform presents quite a hindrance. Maybe interest in that can be sparked, if a lot of positive new stories arise out of the good legalizing marijuana has done for Washington and Colorado. Negative stories, like children frequently bringing pot to school sure won't help.

[Bunty]

KP, if you are interested in helping the cause, you can donate at okmedicalmarijuana.org It is run by a guy named Jeff Pickens, who also organized the Almost 4/20 rally last year. He is a friendly hippy type of guy who has had more success than local NORML chapter of getting TV coverage at least.

Yeah, Jeff is from Stillwater where for well over a decade it has pretty much been ground zero for activist interest in Oklahoma on the need to reform the insane anti drug laws in Oklahoma. As a reflection of that, Jeff in 2006 publicly debated the Stillwater police chief on the subject of legalizing drugs. Held in the Student Union of OSU, around 100 people showed up for it, including the mayor of Stillwater. More than that should have heard the debate, but there's a lot of apathy in this state on the subject debated.

[Jim Kyle]

Here's an interesting article, that's directly related to this thread: BBC News - Hemp: Could the US rekindle its love affair?

Perhaps it's time to attack the problem from a different direction. The DEA's position that all members of a genus are the same is about as logical as claiming that all apes are human...

[Bunty]

Here's an interesting article, that's directly related to this thread: BBC News - Hemp: Could the US rekindle its love affair?

Perhaps it's time to attack the problem from a different direction. The DEA's position that all members of a genus are the same is about as logical as claiming that all apes are human...

Yeah, hemp should be legalized, so the grand claims that it can save the world can be proven. I think such claims are highly exaggerated but wouldn't mind being shown wrong.

[soonerguru]

Are you talking about elected Republicans or Republicans in general? The most conservative Repubs I'm familiar with have Libertarian leanings, wanting less government intervention in our lives, including laying off drugs. No, they're probably not potheads, most, and having no personal dog in this fight, it's not their personal issue. They're not gonna lose the farm over the pot argument.

In Oklahoma, the libertarian Repubs are seriously outnumbered by social conservatives. Nonetheless, both parties have contributed to this culture. The question is whether or not our existing state leadership is willing to reconsider its position. Not bloody likely unless they feel the winds of political change forcing them to do so. We should start with the law enforcement community first, as opposed to the politicians. Politicians don't want to be "soft on crime" (shudder), so they're not going to move in this direction unless they get the blessing -- or demand -- from law enforcement.

[OKCTalker]

I don't understand why the nuances and technicalities of this issue are still being debated (here and elsewhere) when everyone agrees that marijuana impairs people, and we don't need any more impaired people than we already have.

I'm perfectly OK with the use of pot for medical purposes when prescribed by a physician (and that the patient cannot operator a motor vehicle, heavy machinery, etc. when using), but recreational use? No.

[Kokopelli]

Jim, I like your thinking. After reading the article in the DOK recently about using an invasive imported bamboo like plant for feedstock in ethanol production. I had been doing some research to see if hemp could also be used for ethanol production.

Here are some facts about hemp;

Cellulosic ethanol is the next generation of ethanol and hemp is a woody, fiberous, cellulosic plant that could be used for ethanol production. Filtered hemp oil can be used directly to power diesel engines. In 1892, Rudolf Diesel invented the diesel engine, which he intended to fuel "by a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils. The only problem hemp production is outlawed in the USA. Doesn't make any sense to introduce a new invasive, imported plant for ethanol production.

The world leading producer of hemp is China with smaller production in Europe, Chile and North Korea.
More hemp is exported to the United States than to any other country. Why are we importing something that used to be widely grown in the USA. Only a true politician could love that logic.

A mixture of fibreglass, hemp fiber, kenaf, and flax has been used since 2002 to make composite panels for automobiles. The Mercedes C-Class has up to 20 kg of hemp in each car.

Hemp can be used as a "mop crop" to clear impurities out of wastewater, such as sewage effluent, excessive phosphorus from chicken litter or other unwanted substances or chemicals. It wasn't that many years ago that Okla and Ark had a big lawsuit over excessive phoshorus in eastern Okla watersheds.

[soonerguru]

I don't understand why the nuances and technicalities of this issue are still being debated (here and elsewhere) when everyone agrees that marijuana impairs people, and we don't need any more impaired people than we already have.

I'm perfectly OK with the use of pot for medical purposes when prescribed by a physician (and that the patient cannot operator a motor vehicle, heavy machinery, etc. when using), but recreational use? No.

Your approach has not led to fewer impaired people. It has enriched the drug cartels, leading to more dead people. Perhaps it's worth considering another approach. If we can regulate alcohol, we can regulate marijuana. The evidence is flimsy that legalization and regulation would lead to more widespread use. Consider this: would you suddenly start smoking pot if it were legal? I doubt I would.

[Kokopelli]

I don't understand why the nuances and technicalities of this issue are still being debated (here and elsewhere) when everyone agrees that marijuana impairs people, and we don't need any more impaired people than we already have.

I'm perfectly OK with the use of pot for medical purposes when prescribed by a physician (and that the patient cannot operator a motor vehicle, heavy machinery, etc. when using), but recreational use? No.

A: So what would change if mj were legal? It is currently illegal and that hasn't stopped people from driving under the influence of mj.

B: So that mean you also support new laws restricting the use of cell phones while driving.

[soonerguru]

Jim, I like your thinking. After reading the article in the DOK recently about using an invasive imported bamboo like plant for feedstock in ethanol production. I had been doing some research to see if hemp could also be used for ethanol production.

Here are some facts about hemp;

Cellulosic ethanol is the next generation of ethanol and hemp is a woody, fiberous, cellulosic plant that could be used for ethanol production. Filtered hemp oil can be used directly to power diesel engines. In 1892, Rudolf Diesel invented the diesel engine, which he intended to fuel "by a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils. The only problem hemp production is outlawed in the USA. Doesn't make any sense to introduce a new invasive, imported plant for ethanol production.

The world leading producer of hemp is China with smaller production in Europe, Chile and North Korea.
More hemp is exported to the United States than to any other country. Why are we importing something that used to be widely grown in the USA. Only a true politician could love that logic.

A mixture of fibreglass, hemp fiber, kenaf, and flax has been used since 2002 to make composite panels for automobiles. The Mercedes C-Class has up to 20 kg of hemp in each car.

Hemp can be used as a "mop crop" to clear impurities out of wastewater, such as sewage effluent, excessive phosphorus from chicken litter or other unwanted substances or chemicals. It wasn't that many years ago that Okla and Ark had a big lawsuit over excessive phoshorus in eastern Okla watersheds.

Because hemp-based fuel is the debil.

[soonerguru]

I would love to see this issue polled in Oklahoma by a legitimate pollster. It would be interesting to see where the battle lines are drawn: medical marijuana, decriminalization, full-scale legalization with regulation, etc.

We can all speculate what people would believe, but it would be interesting to confirm it. Arkansas got damn close to passing medical marijuana this year.

[Bunty]

I would love to see this issue polled in Oklahoma by a legitimate pollster. It would be interesting to see where the battle lines are drawn: medical marijuana, decriminalization, full-scale legalization with regulation, etc.

We can all speculate what people would believe, but it would be interesting to confirm it. Arkansas got damn close to passing medical marijuana this year.

The Oklahoman or the Tulsa World should pay for a poll. The resulting front page story might stir up increased sales for the paper.

[Bunty]

I don't understand why the nuances and technicalities of this issue are still being debated (here and elsewhere) when everyone agrees that marijuana impairs people, and we don't need any more impaired people than we already have.

If legalized marijuana gets some people to use it, and quit an alcohol habit, that will be more good than bad. A notable proponent of marijuana, Dr. Lester Grinspoon, has said he quit using alcohol in favor of marijuana.

[LandRunOkie]

I think we already know how Tulsa feels. They don't call it Green Country for nothing lol. But I guess they want us to take the lead on everything, even things they are more inclined to.

[Bunty]

Because hemp-based fuel is the debil.

You mean the oil companies would rather fight legalization of hemp than try to get profitably involved in it?

[boscorama]

If legalized marijuana gets some people to use it, and quit an alcohol habit, that will be more good than bad. A notable proponent of marijuana, Dr. Lester Grinspoon, has said he quit using alcohol in favor of marijuana.

Dr. Grinspoon, iirc, stumbled onto the medical benefits of pot when his young son was fighting cancer. I don't remember if his son was smoking or using edibles or tea. This happened decades ago, in the 70's or 80's, right? Lester was an outstanding spokesperson for the cause.

[Kokopelli]

You mean the oil companies would rather fight legalization of hemp than try to get profitably involved in it?

soonerguru, Please explain debil...

[soonerguru]

soonerguru, Please explain debil...

Sarcasm. Play on "devil's weed."

[Spartan]

Legalizing it is pretty pointless when employers are still testing for marijuana just because they can not test for any other, much more serious drug use (coke stays in your system for what, 2 days and that's it??)... this whole legalizing phenomenon merely sets up a duality where you can either sit on your ass and get high or hold a real job (that drug tests), and not work and do what you want on your own time.

We need a serious discussion over substance abuse, including tobacco, alcohol, and virtually every other drug - not just legalizing one without thinking further down the line. We have a serious problem in this society/nation and we can't pin our hopes on a singular solution.

[Dubya61]

Legalizing it is pretty pointless when employers are still testing for marijuana just because they can not test for any other, much more serious drug use (coke stays in your system for what, 2 days and that's it??)... this whole legalizing phenomenon merely sets up a duality where you can either sit on your ass and get high or hold a real job (that drug tests), and not work and do what you want on your own time.

We need a serious discussion over substance abuse, including tobacco, alcohol, and virtually every other drug - not just legalizing one without thinking further down the line. We have a serious problem in this society/nation and we can't pin our hopes on a singular solution.

Spartan, I agree with you about the need to change much more than just whether or not marijuana is legalized fully or in part. I don't know if I agree with you about the testing issue. I don't think that it's a safe summary to say that our hopes (for a better society?) are pinned on a single solution. While you may not have said that in so many words, the sentiment I see in that last sentence bothers me in that there is, in my opinion, an urgent need to change the way we incarcerate people based on these marijuana offenses. I would hate to see that urgent issue set aside while we try to ponder and solve the bigger picture.