OG&E Smart Hours Pricing Alerts

[BBatesokc]

bomber, are you talking about the thermostat OGE provides with Smarthours enrollment? If so, it sounds like you're saying the thermostat is aware of SH pricing events in order to adjust your setpoints back while in the "conserve" mode?

My understanding from when I talked to OGE is that the thermostat does indeed know what the pricing is and considers that when setting the temperature. She commented that the other day the thermostat when the highest its ever gone (83 degrees) trying to keep the overall cost down.

[SoonerDave]

Hmmm...since it seems there's no direct way for OGE to "program" that thermostat remotely, I'd have to guess the firmware is set up to know the high-pricing "time windows" and adjusts accordingly, because pricing would vary from year to year...now, if OGE truly has the ability to manipulate that 'stat remotely....that's a horse of a different color entirely.

[Just the facts]

Hmmm...since it seems there's no direct way for OGE to "program" that thermostat remotely, I'd have to guess the firmware is set up to know the high-pricing "time windows" and adjusts accordingly, because pricing would vary from year to year...now, if OGE truly has the ability to manipulate that 'stat remotely....that's a horse of a different color entirely.

They can send the programming signal through the electrical line I believe.

[ThePlainsman]

FWIW, I'll provide some feedback on the smart hours pricing program. I have been signed up since the May billing cycle. Thus far, my bills in 2011 were $140 for May, $240 for June, $208 for July. For 2012, so far it's $93, $130, and expected to be $130 for July. Those are pretty significant savings. You do not have to take their "smart" thermostat. I, like, one of the previous posters, have one that I can access via internet or iphone and didn't want to change that. It's pretty amazing how much you can save. One caveat, though. If you work from home and require greater usage during the peak times, it's likely to not be a winner for you. The number one thing you can do to save money on power is get a programmable thermostat and use it! This is a money-saving program if you monitor and mitigate your usage from 2pm to 7 pm.

Actually Dave, I think they may indeed have the ability to remotely "control" that thermostat. But, I could be wrong. As I stated, you don't have to use their thermostat though. I didn't and I tend to agree with the premise that it's problematic giving up that kind of control. Ultimately, you can use as much power as you are willing to pay for.

[BBatesokc]

I went ahead and called since we change over next week. I was told the thermostat does receive a signal and adjusts for the critical days and times (adjusting the temp up higher than normal to save you money) if you are not on maximum comfort.

[SSEiYah]

Did anyone have a problem yesterday during the $.58/kwh period? My thermostat broke during the 2:30-3:30pm area and the ac was on the entire time at some low temp setting, then at 3:30PM, it appeared to reflect the correct value and set it up where it was supposed to be..not sure why, or if this is just me.

[SoonerDave]

I went ahead and called since we change over next week. I was told the thermostat does receive a signal and adjusts for the critical days and times (adjusting the temp up higher than normal to save you money) if you are not on maximum comfort.

Wow. Sure seems to me that if they can control the programs, they could just remotely turn it off if they chose. Can't say I'm crazy about that. I know, probably nuts, but man.....

[BBatesokc]

Wow. Sure seems to me that if they can control the programs, they could just remotely turn it off if they chose. Can't say I'm crazy about that. I know, probably nuts, but man.....

OnStar can turn off or unlock my car, Visa can turn off my access to purchase anything, and the electric company can already turn off my electricity if they want (I don't think most people realize how dependent on 3rd party services they really are)..... I'd go with their thermostat if I hadn't already put in my wifi one.

[pw405]

My July billing period just ended, $91 bucks! Last year was $130. The smart hours thermo has conservation settings that fluctuate based on the price of the peak hours. For example, I set mine at 70 until 2 pm to pre cool the house. From 2 to 645, I have it set at 82. During the highest price, it will adjust up to 85. It will indicate this from a bright blue led on the front. The AC actually ran yesterday even with it set this high.

Yesterday there was a problem with the led lights on the thermo. It displayed an average price light, even though it was off peak hours. Looks like it is still doing it, I'll try to snap a picture. Price is still being displayed correctly on the monitor though.

[Larry OKC]

bombermwc; with all of that thermostat adjusting, it has been my experience it is cheaper (as long as they aren't jacking with the prices) to run a constant temperature rather than let it warm up and then the unit has to work overtime just to get it back down to a comfortable temperature again. This can sometimes take hours to achieve with it running non-stop. In the mean time you are sweating. I have seen it time and again with every apt i have lived (HVAC) and my parents home (window units). While we were at lunch/dinner her AC started blowing 81 degree air (dont know for how long but we were gone for 2 hours. During that time the room temp rose from 72 to the same 81 degrees. I shut the unit off and cleaned it which took about another 3 to 45 minutes. During that time of no air, the temp rose another 6 degrees. It took 6 hours for the cleaned AC unit to get the room temp back down to the 72 degrees (blowing out 64degree air). I can only guess what the temp would be if she were to have to turn of the AC for 5 hours from 2 to 7 during the week and how long it wood take to get it back down to a comfortable temp again.

Even our HVAC at work takes a couple of hours in the morning to get back to normal after turning everything off when we close

BBatesOKC: did you get that promise in writing? Were there any discalimers and small print attached so they can weasel out of giving you a credit/refund. In other words, is that promise worth the paper it is printed on?

Anyone: Does this smart pricing and up to 10 times the regualr rate apply to businesses too or is it just residential? I would think that businesses use a lot more electricity between those critical hours than residential with all of the HVAC, lighting, office equipment etc etc etc.

[BBatesokc]

bombermwc; with all of that thermostat adjusting, it has been my experience it is cheaper (as long as they aren't jacking with the prices) to run a constant temperature rather than let it warm up and then the unit has to work overtime just to get it back down to a comfortable temperature again. This can sometimes take hours to achieve with it running non-stop. In the mean time you are sweating. I have seen it time and again with every apt i have lived (HVAC) and my parents home (window units). While we were at lunch/dinner her AC started blowing 81 degree air (dont know for how long but we were gone for 2 hours. During that time the room temp rose from 72 to the same 81 degrees. I shut the unit off and cleaned it which took about another 3 to 45 minutes. During that time of no air, the temp rose another 6 degrees. It took 6 hours for the cleaned AC unit to get the room temp back down to the 72 degrees (blowing out 64degree air). I can only guess what the temp would be if she were to have to turn of the AC for 5 hours from 2 to 7 during the week and how long it wood take to get it back down to a comfortable temp again.

Even our HVAC at work takes a couple of hours in the morning to get back to normal after turning everything off when we close

BBatesOKC: did you get that promise in writing? Were there any discalimers and small print attached so they can weasel out of giving you a credit/refund. In other words, is that promise worth the paper it is printed on?

Anyone: Does this smart pricing and up to 10 times the regualr rate apply to businesses too or is it just residential? I would think that businesses use a lot more electricity between those critical hours than residential with all of the HVAC, lighting, office equipment etc etc etc.

1. I have not experienced your first point. I occasionally let the house heat up to 83 or so if I'm out of the house. When I get home I set it at 74 and within 45 minutes the AC has cooled the house off and begins maintaining that new lower temp.

2. They clearly make that promise on their website and reemphasized it over the phone. Unless you simply refuse to adjust your thermostat up during peak hours then your bill is obviously going to go down.

[venture]

Critical rate from 2-7 tomorrow. Plan accordingly!

[pw405]

bombermwc;
Anyone: Does this smart pricing and up to 10 times the regualr rate apply to businesses too or is it just residential? I would think that businesses use a lot more electricity between those critical hours than residential with all of the HVAC, lighting, office equipment etc etc etc.

Keep in mind, smart hours can charge you up to .50 a KWH, for a maximum of 120 hours annually. If you consider the "normal rate" for non smart hours customers is $.11ish, then at $.5/kwh, you're not even at 5x the "normal" rate.

You are, however at 10X the off-peak pricing of for Smart Hours accounts. So I think its a bit of a misconception when people are like "no way I'd pay 10X the "normal" rate". Well, that's just it - you don't have to consume a large amount electricity during the "critical" price.

Correct me If I am wrong, but I don't even think there has been 10 critical price days this year.

The thermostat error is this:


Normally, the LED's on the front are not illuminated during off peak hours. So, the LED's are indicating a the "normal" rate, while the display is showing the off-peak price.

The Thermostat does communicate to your smart meter: you can see the signal strength in the upper-left of the display. Each smart meter essentially uses a wi-fi signal to communicate with transponders that are placed in neighborhoods. Its just a big wifi network with a router every X number of feet.

The thermostat does not require a wifi signal to operate normally. The funny thing is that people get all suspicious of stuff like this. The error that is happening today is actually saving the customer money, which is probably why OGE is freaking out texting my phone letting me know they are trying to fix it.

That said - I don't think this program is available to commercial accounts. My rationale is this: peak hours, ultra-high 2-7p electrical demand is actually caused by commercial accounts. Business want their clients to come in to a 65 degree building when its 110 outside, its a selling point. Fast food places crank their AC to high heaven, offices are running cold everywhere. During the weekends and national holidays, peak pricing does not apply, probably because the grid is not experiencing ultra high electricity demand. Just a guess but it makes sense for the same reason they would have the smart hours program - its called demand side manipulation.

[Larry OKC]

...You are, however at 10X the off-peak pricing of for Smart Hours accounts. So I think its a bit of a misconception when people are like "no way I'd pay 10X the "normal" rate". Well, that's just it - you don't have to consume a large amount electricity during the "critical" price.

Correct me If I am wrong, but I don't even think there has been 10 critical price days this year.

Yes you do have to consume it if you are going to remain comfortable. Yes, you can shift some tings, like turning off lights (esp incandescent), doing laundry and taking showers etc at off peak times. but unless you want to hit the main power breaker, sit in the rising temps, in the dark (you don't have blinds open because that lets in more heat and as an energy conscious customer you have those blackout curtains installed). Don't want to light candles/oil lamps because of the heat they generate...

While it may be true that there haven't been 10 critical pricing days (so far) at the maximum rate that is more than 10 times (1,000%???) increase, they have a sliding scale that someone else posted. In other words, it isn't just the basic rate vs. the highest rate.

Speaking of which, the Governor declared a state of emergency for the whole state. Under Oklahoma law, it is only price gouging if someone charges 10% more for a product/service after the declaration than before. Does a 10 times charge or 1000% increase qualify???

[pw405]

That's a good point. Allow me to watch batman, and I shall anaylze upon my return.

[MikeOKC]

Critical rate from 2-7 tomorrow. Plan accordingly!

We shouldn't have to. In my opinion, Power For Profit is fundamentally wrong - even immoral. You know what they tell people when they are questioned about being a for-profit public utility? "We believe in the free market and free enterprise." Seriously. Not kidding. They believe in it so much that's why we can walk into that "free market" and choose between OG&E and Jack & Jill's Electric Company. Oh, hang on. Scratch that. OG&E believes in a for-profit monopoly. Don't let 'em fool you.

I posted in another thread and these are the figures as to how much OG&E loves the "free market"...


First quarter profits for 2012: 24.8 Million dollars.

CEO Peter Delaney 2011 base salary: $5,360,990.00
Sean Traucschke 2011 base salary... $1,446,110.00
E. Keith Marshall 2011 base salary...: $1,128,280.00

They even pay their PR guy, Paul Renfro, half a million dollars a year.

This is for a public utility. (For profit, of course.)

Power For Profit is working out wonderfully for OG&E.

God Bless America.

Disclaimer: I don't want government-run power either. I want a true, municipally owned (or contracted to a non-profit) power company that is privately managed. Similar to non-profit hospitals, but with even tougher regulations from the local municipality. It just works. It puts the city before any shareholders.

[bombermwc]

They put a notice on their site that they were having software issues with the thermostats and that users would be credited any rates that were not correct. For me, i was in "conserve" mode during off peak so all i had to do was crank it down. But some users were not able to go into conserve mode during peak. Those users are being credited for the mistake.

It's only the second time it's happened (another time was on a weekend when there isn't supposed to be such thing as smart hours). They corrected the issue and i was never charge any more for it. It's just a bit frustrating.

Yesterday, i did override my thermostat some though. At the critical rate (red light), it was at 86 for the set point. I couldn't take it so i knocked it back down to 82.

Larry - i think you missed the entire point of what i was trying to get by in my post. But I've been down this road with others before. You can either take the information and try it out yourself (because that's the only way anyone will ever convince you), or you can just not use it and move on. I don't really understand why people are so against this thing and continually try to make out that there's a conspiracy or a screw job going on. All of the smart hours customers on here are telling you we're saving money....and not just $10.... every month. You can either take that right from the horses mouth, or continue to tell us we're wrong. But I'm pretty sure we're trying to help you out and we know our bills. We get to see what we spend on a DAILY basis with OG&E. Tell me how you do that with flat rate.

FYI - The thermostat uses WIFI to get back to your smart meter on your house. Your smart meter actually holds all the information on the programming, not the thermostat. So if you ever lose power, it will auto program itself when it comes back on. Smart meters have a battery in them for obvious reasons. And just like how you can turn your electrical wiring in your house into a home network, they do the same with the grid. That's how they are able to pass on information to the meters, which in turn pass it to the thermostats, on rates and alters. It's dynamic...not firmware....which is why it can adjust on a day-by-day basis based on the comfort level vs. price level you have chose. Remember again, you can completely ignore the rates and use the thermostat like any other programmable one if you so choose, you just lose the benefit of the dynamic set point.

[kevinpate]

... We get to see what we spend on a DAILY basis with OG&E. Tell me how you do that with flat rate. ...

(customer's flat rate x 12) / 365 = what a flat rater will spend on a daily basis over the year term (and s/he only has to check it one time to know the answer as it stays the same.)

I know what my billings were in 2010 and 2011. I know what they are thus far this month. I know what they will be in December and January compared to what they were the last 2 years. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm just fine with being on the flat rate and not having to restructure my life around emails from my provider.

Mile may well vary for others.

[Larry OKC]

bombermwc: if it is working for you, that is great. But my question for you is, are you having to make lifestyle changes to get those lower bills (their commercials claim that you don't). I just don't see how it would work in my situation/experience. And all of their promises that they will credit this or that, has anyone tried to call them on that? Like with the error that happened. Do you have to report the error to have them fix it or are they going to automatically credit your account? These are "smart meters" after all and they should be able to do it without having to go out of your way to get your own money back. My experience has been it isn't the easiest thing to do with monopoly type entities.

[SoonerDave]

bombermwc: if it is working for you, that is great. But my question for you is, are you having to make lifestyle changes to get those lower bills (their commercials claim that you don't). I just don't see how it would work in my situation/experience. And all of their promises that they will credit this or that, has anyone tried to call them on that? Like with the error that happened. Do you have to report the error to have them fix it or are they going to automatically credit your account? These are "smart meters" after all and they should be able to do it without having to go out of your way to get your own money back. My experience has been it isn't the easiest thing to do with monopoly type entities.

Larry, I have my own skepticism/concerns on the SmartHours program, not quite to the same degree, but one thing I don't doubt is that they'll make good on their promise to credit anyone who really does go over. IMHO, that's the *last* thing they'd reneg on, because its the carrot to get people to jump on board. It wouldn't take 100 people not getting their credit for a serious stink to arise. It wouldn't make any sense not to make good on them, because the total $$ value of the credits they're likely to have to provide is trivial on their books in the grand scheme of things.

How much longer does the SH season run?

[BBatesokc]

Larry, I have my own skepticism/concerns on the SmartHours program, not quite to the same degree, but one thing I don't doubt is that they'll make good on their promise to credit anyone who really does go over. IMHO, that's the *last* thing they'd reneg on, because its the carrot to get people to jump on board. It wouldn't take 100 people not getting their credit for a serious stink to arise. It wouldn't make any sense not to make good on them, because the total $$ value of the credits they're likely to have to provide is trivial on their books in the grand scheme of things.

How much longer does the SH season run?

Runs through September - then the rate gets even better 24/7.

We lived for the last month as if we were on SH pricing just to see if we could do it. I'm home much of the day and it wasn't much of a change. I put the Koi pond pump on a timer and set the digital thermostat to go from 73 to 77 and then 80 from 2-7pm and then back down to 73/74.

I kick the ceiling fans on as the temperature rises. We also took the time to unplug all the items we rarely actually turn on (TV is extra rooms, PS3, etc.).

Not much inconvenience on our end and it should mean $50 or so, at least, back each month.

[MikeOKC]

Larry, I have my own skepticism/concerns on the SmartHours program, not quite to the same degree, but one thing I don't doubt is that they'll make good on their promise to credit anyone who really does go over. IMHO, that's the *last* thing they'd reneg on, because its the carrot to get people to jump on board. It wouldn't take 100 people not getting their credit for a serious stink to arise. It wouldn't make any sense not to make good on them, because the total $$ value of the credits they're likely to have to provide is trivial on their books in the grand scheme of things.

How much longer does the SH season run?

Good points. I think it's important for everybody to realize that Delaney has already said that it's a voluntary program "for now." It won't be long before we're all forced on to it ala Centerpoint Energy in Houston.

Okay, this might be a little long, but I hope those excited about the OG&E "smart" plan will allow me to answer what they keep asking for: an explanation for why so many have problems with this. There's several things about this program that makes it wrong, on so many levels.....

1. Sure, people are quite proud and bragging about their lower bills. But that's a "duh." They're being gouged from 2-7 so they are forced to change their lifestyle, comfort level, whatever, so they are raising their thermostats via smartphones, iPad apps, the whole bit. So, yeah, when you crank the thermostat up, guess what? Your billls are going to be lower! No surprise. But here's the catch, you're seeing those lower bills at the threat of being highly penalized. In fact, nobody has to be a part of any program to change their practices, raise the thermostat and get lower bills. Those of us on a leveled plan can crank it up too and guess what? Our bills will be lower too!

2. The "Green" argument. This one is really misleading and an outright misinformation program. OG&E (Power For Profit) is not doing this to be environmentally friendly or to "help" their customers. That's not their mission when the public utility has a corporate charter and shareholders to please. The facts are so clear that anyone willing to do a smidgen of research can find the truth. OG&E was getting dangerously close to the mandated ratio for power consumption vs customer base. It is clear that OG&E needs to build a new, modern power plant. Peter Delaney is avoiding that at all costs. They don't want to put that kind of investment into their infrastructure. Without the new, larger, more efficient, cleaner modern plants - we continue on with all the older plants being on the grid which are dirtier, less efficient, and damaging to the environment. This "smart" program makes it look "green" when, in fact, it keeps OG&E from having to build the newer, cleaner, more efficient (but more expensive) plant. Bottom line here: this "smart" program is only "smart" for the bottom line of OG&E.

3. The software. It doesn't take a "conspiracy theory" to understand the technology is already there for them to transition to a Big Brother energy company who will decide for you when you should be comfortable, how comfortable you should be and even define comfortable for you! This is the big problem for many people in that we're willingly handing over to this for-profit energy 'public utility' the power to remotely control our energy use. Taking away our freedom to use the electricity we're paying for when we want to, how we want to, etc. It's coming. And all a part of the long-term plan for all of these companies who don't want to invest in cleaner and more efficient infrastructure.

And there's more. But the above should get you thinking about why OG&E is rolling this out, what the ramifications are, and how the psychology of the "lower bills" is just that. We can all have lower bills by cranking our thermostats to 80 when we, (importantly), need it the most. You don't need Smart Plans and Smart Meters to do that. If you did a DIY plan, without OG&E having a gun at your head with price gouging in peak hours, you could be bragging about lower bills too! This is all about OG&E and their best interests. Nothing else.

Queue up the expected arrival of OG&E PR lackey, Paul Renfro, (almost a half million dollar salary for PR at this 'public utility') to tell you that so many are "misinformed." No, we're just wising up and some of us aren't falling for your expensive advertising campaign that is the true misinformation, that fails to tell the real story.

[stick47]

Those of us on a leveled plan can crank it up too and guess what? Our bills will be lower too!

But my rate on the plan when off peak is less than half the price you're paying. Thus you couldn't save as much as if you were on Smart Hours.

[BBatesokc]

I won't "quote" MikeOKC, but I will reply.

1.) One, you act like this 'change your lifestyle' is some sort of burden. When seat belts were made mandatory I had to change my lifestyle too (not a big fan of the seat belt), but I didn't cry about it or concoct some Big Brother conspiracy.

Yeah, turn your thermostat down and your bills will lower - drive less and you'll spend less on gas too. Was there really a point in your statement?

Regardless, when I turn my thermostat down, I'll save more than you because my base rate a majority of the time is lower than anyone not on the SH plan.

Also nobody forces you to get on the SH plan. If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. Better yet, really screw OGE and disconnect from the grid altogether!

2.) Couldn't really care one way or the other about anyone's 'green' argument. I'm not big into the whole 'green' thing. It saves me money in the end and that is my biggest concern.

3.) As plainly stated MANY times, you don't have to use their thermostat and you can override their's if you choose.

Do I agree they are avoiding the cost of a new plant for as long as possible? Yes, but it doesn't concern me that much.

And yes, some of us are 'wising up' - I'll just let you continue to pretend to know which ones.

[MikeOKC]

I won't "quote" MikeOKC, but I will reply.

1.) One, you act like this 'change your lifestyle' is some sort of burden. When seat belts were made mandatory I had to change my lifestyle too (not a big fan of the seat belt), but I didn't cry about it or concoct some Big Brother conspiracy.

Yeah, turn your thermostat down and your bills will lower - drive less and you'll spend less on gas too. Was there really a point in your statement?

Regardless, when I turn my thermostat down, I'll save more than you because my base rate a majority of the time is lower than anyone not on the SH plan.

Also nobody forces you to get on the SH plan. If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. Better yet, really screw OGE and disconnect from the grid altogether!

2.) Couldn't really care one way or the other about anyone's 'green' argument. I'm not big into the whole 'green' thing. It saves me money in the end and that is my biggest concern.

3.) As plainly stated MANY times, you don't have to use their thermostat and you can override their's if you choose.

Do I agree they are avoiding the cost of a new plant for as long as possible? Yes, but it doesn't concern me that much.

And yes, some of us are 'wising up' - I'll just let you continue to pretend to know which ones.

Brian, I understand where you're coming from. I don't quite understand the snark from you, and am a bit surprised by that, but otherwise they're honest questions and I'll answer them.

1.) One, you act like this 'change your lifestyle' is some sort of burden. When seat belts were made mandatory I had to change my lifestyle too (not a big fan of the seat belt), but I didn't cry about it or concoct some Big Brother conspiracy.

When it comes to comfort, everybody has different definitions. I might like it one way - you may like it another. The seat belt analogy probably doesn't hold up because if you put us both in the same accident, in the same car, hit by the same vehicle in the same place - we're both going to, give or take our ages/physical condition the same brunt.

Yeah, turn your thermostat down and your bills will lower - drive less and you'll spend less on gas too. Was there really a point in your statement?

The point being that there are many people bragging about their bills being so much lower this summer and giving credit to the great 'Smart' plan. But, it's a trade-off. Comfort for a gouging price - discomfort and we'll give you a price break. My statement is saying I could brag about my bill going from $210 a month to $145 a month as well, by my DIY "personal responsibility" or my own "discipline" plan, call it what you want. You're like me, that seems obvious. But people really aren't thinking when they brag so much about the "savings". My point was actually yours and the reason I made it at all is because some are failing to see the simple logic. They really think they're bill is lower because of the plan, not because they're being "forced" to turn up the thermostat or face these gouging rates. Duh! Turn up the thermostat - lower bills, smart plan or not.

Regardless, when I turn my thermostat down, I'll save more than you because my base rate a majority of the time is lower than anyone not on the SH plan.

Here's where the trade-off comes in. For everyone in the program, the base rate is highest, when you need it the most! This is why it's considered "gouging." What they call "demand-based pricing" is no different than if a grocery store (if we had one) downtown went from charging $1 for a loaf of bread to $5 during the NBA finals. It's taking advantage of a situation that is out of their control and unfairly profiting from it. There's a reason these price gouging laws exist. Except when OG&E does exactly the same thing - take advantage of people using the electricity when it's 113 degrees outside and they need it the most - they inflate the price and call it "demand pricing."

Also nobody forces you to get on the SH plan. If it doesn't work for you then don't do it. Better yet, really screw OGE and disconnect from the grid altogether!

Another big part of the problem many have with this plan. Delaney has already said the program is voluntary "for now." There's no question that it will become mandatory. Google "Centerpoint Energy" "Houston" "Smart Meter".....The other part of your statement is, yet again, more ammunition for those opposing the rollout. Going "off the grid" shouldn't be the only option to Power For Profit. OG&E is a for-profit monopoly run for the enrichment of OG&E - with no competition. True municipal Power & Light companies (real public utilities) are either municipally owned or non-profit. They can still be privately managed. But Power For Profit monopolies - gouging people in the middle of the day - is immoral, imo.

2.) Couldn't really care one way or the other about anyone's 'green' argument. I'm not big into the whole 'green' thing. It saves me money in the end and that is my biggest concern.

And that's fine. But OG&E promoting it the way they are is complete and total disinformation. You don't have to be into the whole green thing to be angry that our public utility is using feel-good advertising in a way that's entirely misleading.

3.) As plainly stated MANY times, you don't have to use their thermostat and you can override their's if you choose.

For now, that's true. However, it's the software that matters. The software at the meter is what's concerning to many.

Do I agree they are avoiding the cost of a new plant for as long as possible? Yes, but it doesn't concern me that much.

It should concern you that OG&E refuses to tell people the truth about the need for a new modern, efficient power plant. Their refusal to invest in the needed infrastructure is borderline criminal. That's why this whole thing had to rolllout fast and the ratios had to plummet. Even short-term losses for OG&E at the beginning is better, in their thinking, than the huge investment. Which is at the root of this right here, right now.

And yes, some of us are 'wising up' - I'll just let you continue to pretend to know which ones.

This was unnecessary to a fellow poster. Especially one that sticks up for you in so many threads. I've alerted on several posts that slam you unfairly and are over-the-top. Maybe you never even see them because they were removed!.....It's nothing like how you phrased it, Brian. I have repeatedly said, "in my opinion," and many of us do feel we are wising up to the ways of OG&E in general, and this entire 'smart' scheme in particular. That doesn't mean your opinion isn't just as valid.