OG&E Smart Hours Pricing Alerts

[pw405]

Hey the price for peak customers today was only 11 cents. Gotta love that, I have spent only $.41 on peak time today. Trying to beat the estimated price of $72 fo my July bill. At $67 so far and the rest of the billing cycle is at $.04 over the weekend.

I think everybody has a misconception that smart hours means you will be sitting in your home with lights off all summer sweating it out waiting until 7 pm while OGE sits back lighting cigars with $100 bills. In my experience, it has just meant pushing the up arrow on my thermostat before work, and enjoying significantly lower bills.

Since they can only do 120 hours of critical pricing per YEAR, even at the high rate of .23, you are far and away lowering your average cost because all weekend & the rest of the day you only pay $.043, and there are even days like today where peak time means I just pay what I did before getting the peak plan. So far, I don't see any reason not to try it, especially considering you get a free thermostat, which I was planning to buy anyways.

So... Does anybody here use Smart Hours and NOT like he program? If so, why?

[HewenttoJared]

That's the part that irritates me. That's a complete fiction. The electrons aren't unionized...It only costs more because they CHOOSE to charge more.

Incorrect.

[Bunty]

79 degrees?!!? No thank you. Thermostat sits on 73degrees here.

Burr, I'd probably be shivering at 73 and wondering why the heck should I be paying more just to shiver. 79 or 80 tends to do it for me. To each his own comfort.

[Bunty]

Glad I bought a geothermal heat and air unit.

I Hardly ever even think about the electrical bill and I put the thermostat where ever I feel comfortable.
Usually that’s about 73 in day and 71 at night.
I bought a ClimateMaster (LXU)
They are based in OKC and manufacture some of the very best geothermal units in the world.
http://residential.climatemaster.com/about-us

Don't they cost twice as much as conventional units and last only about as long. If so, that explains why they are not more popular.

[OSUPeterson]

I dont have exact number in front of me, and Im too lazy to look them up, but I know that geothermal units are far more efficient.

I have not heard of the concern of longevity. As with anything, maintenance is the key to a long life.

I know OSU was developing residental geothermal well units for larger homes with a full payback in like 10-15 years (this was like 10 years ago). If you think about how little it cost you on the energy side, investing in a system that pays itself off in 10-15 years is a great investement.

[NoOkie]

Burr, I'd probably be shivering at 73 and wondering why the heck should I be paying more just to shiver. 79 or 80 tends to do it for me. To each his own comfort.

Man, I'd be miserable. 70 when I'm at home, 75 after 1AM. I let it go up to 77 or something during the day while I'm out, but it starts cycling down to 70 at 3:45 to give the house some time to cool off.

[richosh]

Who is paying for the adds we are seeing on TV and the newspaper, OG&E or the ratepayers?

[GaryOKC6]

I changed out my air conditioner condensing unit a 3 years ago. I asked a friend that is in the business for a recommendation as to the very best unit out there. I told him that I want the unit that he would put in his own home. He said that hands down the Trane XL is the best. It cut my electric bill nearly in half. I replaced it with the same size and seer unit and it has more than paid for itself. Now I am looking into the OGE program as well.

[SoonerDave]

The myOGEPower website is a frustrating experience.

Even though everyone in our area has or should have one of those infernal SmartMeters by now, they only show you the average cost in your "neighborhood," which is defined only as "people in your area who have enrolled in myOGEPower," which really doesn't tell me squat. I want to know how my consumption compares to other homes. The cost figures don't relay to you how many "neighbors" are included, the proximity of those neighbors, the relative size of the homes, or their rate plans. Just cost. Perhaps that information is there and I've simply not found it yet. They offer the cost of an "efficient" home, yet tell you little-to-nothing about what that means. Not even a mile to my north and northeast are numerous generally smaller homes built at least a decade before mine, which could easily skew "average" costs down.

The myOGEPower website looks great, lots of neat graphics, but I need more meat on the bone about the source and volume of the comparative data for it to be a really good analytical tool. The day-to-day/hour-to-hour consumption is a good starting point. If someone who has used it more can advise where that information is located and I'm just not looking in the right place, I'd appreciate the info!

Edit: Found one page where the summary consumption is listed, but I sure could use more detail on "efficient" and "neighborhood" comparisons.

[1972ford]

I always thought that OG&E had to use their available wind and solar as baseload generation by law not solely for peak times. As I understand how OG&E works is they use renewables first followed by coal the gas and they have extra nat. gas plants that they use for peak power since it does not take as long to ramp up its electricity production. using wind power only for peak times makes absolutely no sense in that the power generated by them is too unpredictable and unreliable to be the primary peak generation choice whereas is baseload generation when they are used in conjunction with coal and nat. gas provides the best benefit to the OG&E's renewables goal as well as reliability.

OG&E's ast resort is to buy power off the open market which cost more for OG&E than it charges customers which brings to light why they are so adament about about promoting smart hours. The costs to build a new plant is flat out outragous if they can taper off demand in peak times they can delay building a new power plant(that will run a whopping at most 400 hours a year in the beginning. The cost difference in peak power and base power is reflected in the minimal use if any at all of half our power plants most of the year although they still have to be maintained manned and insured.


I just wonder when they are going to start preheating their boiler water with pipes running on the surface of their properties to help bring down costs

[jedicurt]

Glad I bought a geothermal heat and air unit.

I Hardly ever even think about the electrical bill and I put the thermostat where ever I feel comfortable.
Usually that’s about 73 in day and 71 at night.
I bought a ClimateMaster (LXU)
They are based in OKC and manufacture some of the very best geothermal units in the world.
http://residential.climatemaster.com/about-us

very interesting... do you mind sharing about how much the total install price was? i know they have several options and such... but it would still give a rough idea

[Larry OKC]

Yep its a scam...energy usage is down, not up so no need to charge more during certain hours...similar to the Gas company or the City hitting you with LOW usage charge

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...44cabb5f679b59

Residential power demand is on track to fall for the third straight year, according to the government. A weak economy is keeping people in smaller houses and shacked up with others. At the same time, efficiency programs are pushing more efficient light bulbs, air conditioners and other devices into homes. Refrigerators use a quarter of the power they used a generation ago, according to EPRI.

[WilliamTell]

similar to the Gas company or the City hitting you with LOW usage charge

I posted this thread awhile back about the ONG High outside temperature fees that I was getting hit with for years before I realized it. Speaking of which, they just voted to pass another hike in Natural Gas fees that ONG can charge. Just ignore that natural gas is the lowest its ever been, our prices are still going up.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...&highlight=ong

[Larry OKC]

To clarify, I left out something in the City part...should have mentioned something about water

[HewenttoJared]

Yep its a scam...energy usage is down, not up so no need to charge more during certain hours...similar to the Gas company or the City hitting you with LOW usage charge

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...44cabb5f679b59

Actually declining overall use along with similar peak usage does make it more expensive. There's no scam here, it's just the way non-renewable energy works.

[Larry OKC]

You can't have it both ways, if the supposed increase during peak hours is so they don't have to build another power plant to keep up with demand (they don't have that problem anyway since we don't have brown outs etc) and demand has been down for the past 3 years (again, no need to build new plants), then you can't justify selectively charging folks more for it. it IS a scam!

You are sounding to like the "experts" that give the reason that the price of gas is going up over the years, the reasons were often contradictory. When caught in their lies, half-truths and spin...

[HewenttoJared]

Same number of plants, similar amount of maintenance, less total kwh in sales. It's very simple math.

[Larry OKC]

So if usage goes down, rates go up. If usage goes up, rates go up. So how are rates going to go down if their Smart Meter plan works and usage drops? Your rates are still going to go up???

To borrow the reasoning from a certain high profile Supreme Court case...if it looks like a scam...acts like a scam...it is a scam

[HewenttoJared]

You're talking about two temporally different kinds of increases and decreases. You're oversimplifying the demand curve.

This would be a good place to start: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/befo...ker/1110780521

[Larry OKC]

But you didn't answer the questions...

[HewenttoJared]

First, let me clarify something. Prices are going to continue to rise for as long as we continue to generate our power using environmentally-destructive, non-renewable sources of fuel. So nothing is really going to drive them down long term, only hold them stable or slow the rate of increase. Real greenhouse restrictions are on the way, as is data about atmospheric methane loss rates, both of which should eventually be fully included in the price of the fuels.


First Question: Smart Meters drop peak usage, so they will lower the speed of cost increase. They probably won't have a large, immediate effect of any kind. It'll just be a gradual smoothing of the peaks in demand. That should save everyone money, because it means companies don't have to add as much capacity to hit those peak times. Less total cost means less cost per kwh.
Second Question: Yes, there is a decent chance that average rates will continue to rise, but at a slower pace than they otherwise would have.

Now go read that book and you'll actually believe me.

[ou48A]

very interesting... do you mind sharing about how much the total install price was? i know they have several options and such... but it would still give a rough idea

There are many variables and I have forgotten some of them but in general they do cost up front about twice as much as a high seer system. But more on the cost later. A quality geothermal unit will outlast the average high quality high seer conventional unit, and probably by a lot.

The company owner of a heat and air company who I know personally and who does not sale geothermal units said to me; think of it this way….. a conventional unit can only over come about 30 degrees difference between the inside and outside Temp. If it’s 108 a conventional unit is running full blast all the time. The high end seer units are now being designed to run at a very high percentage of their peak capacity. This means they do not use as much electricity when they run but they are also more prone to breaking down and that they must run much longer.

The Geothermal unit like I have has 200 foot wells were the temp’s are in the mid to low 60’s. My unit has a 2 stage compressor and 2 stage fan blower. The second stage on either rarely kicks in. This means that my unit is not operating under high stress loads to overcome anything but the very largest temp differences. I bought an extended 10 year parts warranty package for my geothermal unit. The wells and associated lines came with a 50 year warranty at no additional charge.

Currently until 2016 the federal government offers a 30% tax credit. Some states also offer their own rebate programs. At one time Oklahoma offered a 5% tax credit. Most utility’s offer rebates based on the tonnage. OG&E gave me a $375 rebate per ton. Other utility’s such as Edmond electric offer a far higher rebate rate. In my case I was also able to save a little money by paying cash……
When all the money that you get back is considered it lowers the original upfront cost considerably. But I also have lower electrical bills and I now have no natural gas bill. My geothermal unit also heats my hot water for free when it is running.

The geothermal unit acts as a hedge against rising electrical rates. Most of us are not helpless even in the face of political forces who use the EPA to increasingly restrict the cheapest electrical generation in the form of coal. This drives up our electrical cost.

I wouldn’t never get 100% of my money back it might make my home more resalable to some but the resale issue was never a major consideration in my case. In addition I had brand new duct work installed, a new hot water tank, foam insulation but the cost for my geothermal unit by its self was somewhere around $15,000.

A big plus is that I can stay as cool as I want even if it’s 115+ outside, like it was last summer and do it on the cheap.



If you are building something new right now in Oklahoma geothermal heat and air along with foam insulation is IMHO by far the smartest way to go. The bigger the home/ building the more it makes economic sense.

My due diligence (and do your own) convinced me that the Oklahoma built Climatemaster was the best geothermal unit in the world.
I hope this has helped.
http://residential.climatemaster.com/about-us

[ou48A]

Don't they cost twice as much as conventional units and last only about as long. If so, that explains why they are not more popular.

NO……. They actually last longer…The good units can last a lot longer.
Parts of my system came with a 50 year warranty.

Over several years and when all things are considered they easily save you enough to pay back the cost difference over a conventional system.
Over the life time of the system and with rising electrical prices it could save enough to pay for the system.
It’s like an investment. See my above post.

[venture]

The OG&E Variable Peak Price for electricity for your home will be at the high rate of 23 cents per kilowatt hour between 2 and 7 p.m. on Friday, 07/20/2012. This price does not include any applicable taxes, fees or charges.

[venture]

This is a special OG&E pricing message. OG&E has called a critical price event for Friday, 07/20/2012. The electricity price for your home will be 46 cents per kilowatt hour for 3 p.m. to 6 p.m. tomorrow. This price overrides any price message you already received for tomorrow and does not include any applicable taxes, fees or charges.