Considering moving to OKC from Charlotte...a few concerns

[bchris02]

I thought Atlanta and Charlotte were farther apart. I guess it's those last 39 miles that make the difference!

When you factor in traffic it can take over four hours to get to Atlanta from Charlotte. Having DFW close will be nice, especially for those times when I need something that OKC doesn't have. From my research and this board, I think OKC will be a good fit and I am excited to visit and confirm that. I am leaving Charlotte in August and am going to stay with my family in Muldrow while job searching in OKC. I will then relocate to the city upon employment. A lot of what part of the metro I live in depends on where I end up working, but does anybody have any apartment recommendations? I eventually plan on buying a home in the far future but to start off I want an affordable apartment but in a safe area.

[HOT ROD]

What's your point?

In case you didn't read:

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.



.... and if you read an earlier post, I said that Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if the liquor laws were amended. ..

Got it now?

[Oil Capital]

In case you didn't read:

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.



.... and if you read an earlier post, I said that Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if the liquor laws were amended. ..

Got it now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Repeating a pointless post and putting it in bold-face doesn't make it any more meaningful and doesn't change the facts.

We were told for years that Whole Foods would NEVER come to Oklahoma unless liquor laws were amended. And yet, here they are. Apparently with plans to add more stores in both Tulsa and OKC. And the liquor laws have still not been amended. Also, similar liquor laws have not kept Costco from going into other places. And they have not located in some places that have liquor laws more to their liking. There are a lot of Costco stores that do not sell liquor and some that sell neither liquor nor wine.

For example, the 5 stores in Colorado, 2 stores in Kansas, 4 stores in Tennessee, at least 8 stores in Pennsylvania, and at least 5 stores in Maryland apparently don't carry wine or liquor.

It is quite clear from Costco locations across the country that a change in liquor laws is neither necessary nor sufficient to obtain a Costco.
It is nothing but silly speculation and idle message board chatter to say, and there is zero evidence for the proposition that, Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if liquor laws were changed. They will move to OKC (and Tulsa) when the cities fit into their expansion plans.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Repeating a pointless post and putting it in bold-face doesn't make it any more meaningful and doesn't change the facts.

We were told for years that Whole Foods would NEVER come to Oklahoma unless liquor laws were amended. And yet, here they are. Apparently with plans to add more stores in both Tulsa and OKC. And the liquor laws have still not been amended. Also, similar liquor laws have not kept Costco from going into other places. And they have not located in some places that have liquor laws more to their liking. There are a lot of Costco stores that do not sell liquor and some that sell neither liquor nor wine.

For example, the 5 stores in Colorado, 2 stores in Kansas, 4 stores in Tennessee, at least 8 stores in Pennsylvania, and at least 5 stores in Maryland apparently don't carry wine or liquor.

It is quite clear from Costco locations across the country that a change in liquor laws is neither necessary nor sufficient to obtain a Costco.
It is nothing but silly speculation and idle message board chatter to say, and there is zero evidence for the proposition that, Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if liquor laws were changed. They will move to OKC (and Tulsa) when the cities fit into their expansion plans.

To be fair, a change in liquor laws could well expedite the process.

[Oil Capital]

To be fair, a change in liquor laws could well expedite the process.

It could, absolutely. It could tip the balance in favor of opening a store in OKC and/or Tulsa. I never suggested otherwise. All I said was that there is no reason to think that Costco will automatically and immediately (in a heartbeat) open stores in Oklahoma upon an amendment to the liquor laws. Nor is there any reason to think that they will absolutely never open a store in Oklahoma if the laws are not changed.

[Swake2]

There's good reason to think that a change in the law would bring Costco:

The retailer, which has more than 400 stores and none in Oklahoma, said it could open six to 10 stores here by 2014 if the state's liquor laws are changed, the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber said and a Costco representative confirmed.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...0_OKLAHO326246

[Pete]

Not to mention, Costco is already in Louisville, Des Moines, Albuquerque, Birmingham, Omaha, and much smaller towns in Alaska, Montana, Idaho, New Hampshire, Vermont, etc.

Their stores here in California have huge alcohol sections and they do a tremendous business in wine. Alcohol is a high-margin item and I bet every Costco derives a good deal of it's profit from those sales.

If you were them and looking to expand, why on earth would you choose a state with this restriction over expanding into different or existing markets?


The new retail task force that is part of the OKC Economic Development Trust is a very strong proponent of changing the laws because they are consistently running into this obstacle when recruiting national chains, especially when it comes to food stores.

It's not a coincidence that grocery choices in OKC and the state have been abysmal in comparison to similarly sized cities.

[soonerguru]

There's good reason to think that a change in the law would bring Costco:



http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...0_OKLAHO326246

Well I guess that settles that argument! LOL.

[bluedogok]

The Costco's (and Sam's) here in Colorado have a separate beer, wine and liquor store in the building, the ones in Austin had separate liquor and beer/wine in the store itself. There are nuances to every state's (and sometimes city or county) liquor laws, a corporate entity cannot hold a liquor license in Texas, ultimately there is one person that holds the license even if they operate under a common banner like a Spec's, Twin Liquors, etc. In Texas a person is allowed up to five licenses per person and a family (even through marriage) can pool licenses together to operate under a common banner. I think all the Central Texas Spec's licenses are held by the same husband/wife combo and are relatives of the other Spec's license holders. I am not sure how the license structure in Colorado is setup, I know that even though I was born in Oklahoma and spent 37 years of my life there I could not move back and apply for a liquor license without 10 years of continuous residency. Everything in Oklahoma's liquor laws are written in a way to protect a "local" from competition from out of state, I also think that may not be the only reason why an operation like Costco stays away, it may also be due to the wholesale liquor distribution and how much more restrictive the three-tier distribution system in Oklahoma is compared to other states.

[Celebrator]

Well one of your concerns should NOT be our NBA team...ours is much better than Charlotte's.

[fsusurfer]

When you factor in traffic it can take over four hours to get to Atlanta from Charlotte. Having DFW close will be nice, especially for those times when I need something that OKC doesn't have. From my research and this board, I think OKC will be a good fit and I am excited to visit and confirm that. I am leaving Charlotte in August and am going to stay with my family in Muldrow while job searching in OKC. I will then relocate to the city upon employment. A lot of what part of the metro I live in depends on where I end up working, but does anybody have any apartment recommendations? I eventually plan on buying a home in the far future but to start off I want an affordable apartment but in a safe area.

I moved to OKC nearly 10 years ago and moved back to Florida 5 years ago. When I lived in OKC I was in my mid-20's, and I lived in Bricktown at the Deep Deuce Apartments. Bricktown gets bashed a lot on here, but I had a blast living there at that age, it was like college part II (and I went to FSU). I made tons of friends there and you can't beat being able to walk down to the bars and games at the arena and the red hawks stadium. Also the pool parties Deep Deuce has are great. There's also the Deep Deuce grill right in the middle of the complex which is a great place to pre-drink. Not to mention rent is very cheap compared to living downtown in other citys. If you are interested in meeting chicks, having a great time, and living in a social atmosphere, I wouldn't recommend any other place.

[Sean]

When you factor in traffic it can take over four hours to get to Atlanta from Charlotte. Having DFW close will be nice, especially for those times when I need something that OKC doesn't have. From my research and this board, I think OKC will be a good fit and I am excited to visit and confirm that. I am leaving Charlotte in August and am going to stay with my family in Muldrow while job searching in OKC. I will then relocate to the city upon employment. A lot of what part of the metro I live in depends on where I end up working, but does anybody have any apartment recommendations? I eventually plan on buying a home in the far future but to start off I want an affordable apartment but in a safe area.

I would recommend Level Urban Apartments. They just opened May 1st. I moved in last week and love it so far. They're located in the Deep Deuce area which is a 5-10 minute walk to both Bricktown and the Central Business District downtown. 1 bedrooms start at 850/month. Level will also have a Native Roots Market on the bottom floor along with a Bar and Grill. An Aloft Hotel is currently being built directly across the street, which will have 2 restaurants and a bar. And in addition to the restaurants in Bricktown that are a short walk away, you also Deep Deuce Grill and The Wedge Pizzeria that are 1-2 blocks away.

[chuck johnson]

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but why are so many people so jazzed up over Costco? I used to live around the corner from one, but seldom shopped there. I don't see it being much better than Sam's, at least not enough to get worked over it or changing existing laws to attract. Please do correct me if I'm wrong or if there's something I'm not seeing.

The liquor laws here are pretty dumb, but it's not as tragic as some make it out to be. It's one more errand to run, you can't get it on Sunday, after 9pm, and you have to chill it yourself but that's really not that big of a deal.

Now the distributors here aren't that great and the selection is not so good but that's a different issue. Even the best stocked bars and stores are limited by what the distributors will carry. They carry a lot, but if you want difficult to find craft beers (Japanese for example) you are out of luck. At best, Costco and WF would be able to bring in some of those beers.

[Pete]

You are right that Costco and Sam's are similar.

One big difference is that Costco is a fantastic employer. They pay and treat their people very well; much different than Walmart.

And their customer service is absolutely fantastic.


Similar, but there are some very key difference, not the least of which being many people don't like giving their money to Walmart.

[Oil Capital]

There's good reason to think that a change in the law would bring Costco:



http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...0_OKLAHO326246

Funny. Yes, they could open 6-10 stores by 2014. The Costco reps really haven't said much at all when you really look at it. They could also open stores by 2014 without a change in the law. They could also open no stores in Oklahoma with a change in the law.

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that even if the liquor laws are changed, there willnot be 6, let alone 10 Costco stores in Oklahoma by 2014.

[Spartan]

Sigh.... this is pointless to keep rehashing arguments over. The facts have already been posted. Time to move on to something else.

[soonerguru]

Funny. Yes, they could open 6-10 stores by 2014. The Costco reps really haven't said much at all when you really look at it. They could also open stores by 2014 without a change in the law. They could also open no stores in Oklahoma with a change in the law.

I'll go out on a limb here and predict that even if the liquor laws are changed, there willnot be 6, let alone 10 Costco stores in Oklahoma by 2014.

Wow. Quit while you're ahead. Someone produced a very credible, reputable link with confirming quotes from two sources who would know. And yet you continue to subject us to "what you think" without providing a scintilla of evidence or sourcing.

At some point, "what you think" is kinda not relevant in the face of additional facts that throw your entire unfounded pontification into doubt.

[soonerguru]

After reading the utter sophistry on this thread by some of our colorful local residents, one wonders if the original poster just decided to stay in Charlotte.

[Spartan]

Well if anything guru, the original poster did express concern over the local entertainment amenities..

Wow. Quit while you're ahead. Someone produced a very credible, reputable link with confirming quotes from two sources who would know. And yet you continue to subject us to "what you think" without providing a scintilla of evidence or sourcing.

At some point, "what you think" is kinda not relevant in the face of additional facts that throw your entire unfounded pontification into doubt.

The link swake posted was the exact same link that I was trying to locate on the other page, in the face of my mentioning it, he was still oblivious to all but his own bloviation. Then a page later swake posts it, still digging his own trench..I presume digging to China, just shoveling the dirt wherever it may land.

Now here's the question: Is Costco really worth digging trenches over? Good grief.. but in our defense, I believe oil capital lives in Tulsa, not OKC.

[Oil Capital]

Okay, guys. Since the linked information was so authoritative, please let me know when the 6th Costco opens. No doubt it will be within a "heartbeat" of the passage of favorable liquor laws. ;-)

[bchris02]

I will miss Costco, but I can live with Sam's until Costco opens in OKC which is bound to happen eventually especially if the national economy ever recovers. The biggest downside of Sam's to me is not the store its giving money to Wal-Mart. Same thing with Neighborhood Markets. The ones I have been in are actually pretty nice grocery stores, I just hate giving my money to the Waltons. Oklahoma's liquor laws are a pain, but they are not the worst in the country. As far as I know, liberal Pennsylvania won't allow any alcohol in grocery stores, not even 3.2, so liquor laws or not, as OKC gets more on the national radar, more chains like Costco should be coming in.

[soonerguru]

I will miss Costco, but I can live with Sam's until Costco opens in OKC which is bound to happen eventually especially if the national economy ever recovers. The biggest downside of Sam's to me is not the store its giving money to Wal-Mart. Same thing with Neighborhood Markets. The ones I have been in are actually pretty nice grocery stores, I just hate giving my money to the Waltons. Oklahoma's liquor laws are a pain, but they are not the worst in the country. As far as I know, liberal Pennsylvania won't allow any alcohol in grocery stores, not even 3.2, so liquor laws or not, as OKC gets more on the national radar, more chains like Costco should be coming in.

I feel your pain regarding Sam's. I do not spend money with Wal-Mart-affiliated entities for a variety of ethical reasons.

[Oil Capital]

Costco "has hired local brokers and are actively seeking locations,” Price Edwards said in the report, compiled and written by Jim Parrack, senior vice president and retail property specialist.

“Costco has done this previously and not pulled the trigger but seem more serious this time. We’ll see.”

"Others retailer looking at Oklahoma City include The Container Store, Trader Joe’s, Lululemon, Fresh Market and Von Maur."

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-reta...#ixzz22t3Sp7DC