Barons Update

[bradh]

I guess I just don't see where faith and family is pushed in Barons advertising. I mean, they have pretty sweet beer specials every Friday night that I enjoy taking part of. Help me understand what made the Blazers so great, as I didn't show up here until January 2009. What made it conducive to a rowdy atmosphere that is not present now?

[Snowman]

I guess I just don't see where faith and family is pushed in Barons advertising. I mean, they have pretty sweet beer specials every Friday night that I enjoy taking part of. Help me understand what made the Blazers so great, as I didn't show up here until January 2009. What made it conducive to a rowdy atmosphere that is not present now?

I did not realize they did any advertising at all

[borchard]

A few of those places are not really debatable because there is a legit hockey culture (Lake Erie, Chicago, Toronto, Milwaukee) in place, and has been in place for years. We're NEVER going to compare to places where kids can go out and play pond hockey in the winters, that's a fact.

As for San Antonio (and Charlotte), I'm sure it doesn't hurt that they play in the same arena as the Spurs (and Bobcats), and have double the MSA of OKC. The NBA is not the only factor at play here.

Again, I'll ask you like I ask Edgar (who we are used to not answering questions on this site but only answering in vague generalities), what changed? It's still a black rubber round thing pushed around on ice with a carbon fiber stick.

For me, at least, it seemed like everything changed. I wasn't a Barons hater, I promise. I went to the first game. I went to several more that year. But every time I went it just didn't feel the same. My wife said the same thing. She wasn't a hockey fan when I met her. But after I took her to only about 2, or 3, Blazers games, she turned to me and asked how much season tickets were.
I asked her why, and she said, "I don't know, maybe we should get some next year. This is fun"
She doesn't want to go to a Barons game now, any more than I do. I didn't just go to games, either. i used to NEVER miss a game on the radio, if at all possible. I went to many away games, as well. I knew all of the players' names, and most of the opposing players. My ex-wife and I once planned a short vacation to Tennessee around the Blazers playing two games there at the same time.
And I am so tired of people who don't know who keeping throwing out "Oh the blazers gave away tickets!"
I can tell you FOR A FACT, as a multi-year Season Ticket Holder, that I NEVER got a free ticket to a Blazers games. And I personally don't know anyone who did. During their first season, I even stood in line just to get one of the extra 500 tickets that they released for the game against Tulsa at the Fairgrounds.
That being said, maybe the Barons should give away some tickets. it might get people in the door. It also doesn't look good when their cheapest ticket is more than the Thunder's cheapest ticket.
And now I see people saying that maybe they should block off the entire upper bowl at the Cox Center to make it look better? that's just pitiful.

[borchard]

I guess I just don't see where faith and family is pushed in Barons advertising. I mean, they have pretty sweet beer specials every Friday night that I enjoy taking part of. Help me understand what made the Blazers so great, as I didn't show up here until January 2009. What made it conducive to a rowdy atmosphere that is not present now?

For me, it came down to rivalries. We hated Tulsa. We hated Wichita. They hated us. It made for some great games to watch. I also agree with something Brad Lund said once in an interview. When someone asked him about Oklahoma City being a "hockey town", he said, "Oklahoma City isn't a hockey town, it's a Blazers town." It's a lot like the Thunder. Oklahoma City wasn't a basketball town. If anything, Oklahoma City was/is a Sooner Football town. But the Thunder has made people, like me, my wife, her parents all watch the Thunder. Before they came to town, I could count on one hand the number of NBA games I had watched in the past 10 years. So I would say the same thing, "Oklahoma City isn't a basketball town, it's a Thunder town."

[borchard]

[Jersey Boss]

For me, it came down to rivalries. We hated Tulsa. We hated Wichita. They hated us. It made for some great games to watch. I also agree with something Brad Lund said once in an interview. When someone asked him about Oklahoma City being a "hockey town", he said, "Oklahoma City isn't a hockey town, it's a Blazers town." It's a lot like the Thunder. Oklahoma City wasn't a basketball town. If anything, Oklahoma City was/is a Sooner Football town. But the Thunder has made people, like me, my wife, her parents all watch the Thunder. Before they came to town, I could count on one hand the number of NBA games I had watched in the past 10 years. So I would say the same thing, "Oklahoma City isn't a basketball town, it's a Thunder town."

You failed to give the Hornets any credit here. I would respectfully disagree that this is a Thunder Town and is more of a town that appreciates NBA basketball right here. The arguments you make for the Blazers should have bode well for the Calvary when they were here, not so much. The Thunder would be doing well even if Dallas did not have a franchise(they being closest to OKC).

[Snowman]

The entire way the Blazers left seemed poorly handled. First they should not have left a year between to let people out of the habit of going to games, second it seemed like they came off as insulting to at least the team and possibly even fans while moving them out (though it has been long ago enough I do not remember the details), third keeping the name/colors/logo (maybe with a slight refresh) seems like it would have been a much better way to make that transition.

[borchard]

The entire way the Blazers left seemed poorly handled. First they should not have left a year between to let people out of the habit of going to games, second it seemed like they came off as insulting to at least the team and possibly even fans while moving them out (though it has been long ago enough I do not remember the details), third keeping the name/colors/logo (maybe with a slight refresh) seems like it would have been a much better way to make that transition.

That bothered me as well. It seemed that as soon as the Barons were announced trolls came out of the woodwork to bash Blazers fans as stupid, and the team as bush league, not worthy, terrible, etc... Even though the same entity owned both teams, no mention was given EVER of the Blazers history. All banners removed, etc... It kinda pissed me off

[Laramie]

Here are other AHL teams that share a city with the NBA:
Lake Erie Monsters - 8144
Chicago Wolves - 7927 (Not only an NBA team, but an NHL team as well)
San Antonio - 7001
Charlotte Checkers - 6360
Toronto Marlies - 6013 (Not only have an NBA team, but an NHL team as well)
Milwaukee Admirals - 5844

Did the NBA not "change the landscape" in these places?

Good point, Borchard:

Oklahoma City is on the verge:

OKC market is going through a transformation period where we want more major league sports; however we don't have the population & income base to support another major league franchise. Major League Soccer (MLS) or North American Soccer League would be our next option. MLS is growing and not on the level of the Fab Four sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL).

These cities have the population base to support other sports; cities need at least one million metropolitan area population to support one major league sport.[/B]

There are a lot of factors which affect the AHL attendance in these cities like population density, disposable income etc., we are a 'break-through city' (one major league sport) with markets like Portland, San Antonio, Memphis, Orlando, Raleigh (NHL), Sacramento and Salt Lake City.

Cleveland (Lake Erie Monsters) - 2,064,725 [MLB, NFL, NBA] Overextended sports market -0.60% decline in population Barons - AHL 1929-1973, Barons - NHL 1976-1978, Established hockey base but failed as an NHL city

Chicago 9,537,289 - [MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL] (Wolves in suburban Rosemont, IL) former IHL city that moved to the AHL when the IHL folded.

San Antonio - 2,277,550 [NBA] [mid major AHL] former CHL city that eventually became an AHL city after a brief battle between CHL & AHL franchises.

Charlotte - 2,335,358 [NFL, NBA] [mid majors AHL, IL baseball] moved to the AHL in 2010 after successfully competing in the Eastern & Southern Hockey leagues 1956 to 1977, ECHL in 1993-2010

Toronto - 6,054,191 [MLB, CFL, NBA, NHL]

Milwaukee - 1,569,659 [MLB, NBA] [mid major AHL] Overextended sports market +0.88% population growth
1973–1977 (USHL), 1977–2001 (IHL), 2001–present (AHL); Milwaukee is 100 miles from Green Bay in NFL's 150-mile radius in one state; also 85 miles from Chicago in border state.

Oklahoma City - 1,319,677 [NBA] [mid majors - AHL, PCL baseball] [B]+5.32% population growth
OKC's ice hockey history: Blazers 1965-1977, Stars 1978–1982, defunct 1982-92, Blazers 1992-2009, Barons 2010 -present...

Sources: List of Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could Your City Give a Sports Team a Good Home?

Denver is most overextended market for professional sports - The Business Journals

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[Snowman]

They ought to make the "Could Your City Give a Sports Team a Good Home?" an annual article. Refresh the tables data, summarize the changes in who can support or is now overextended and some minor edits to a general description. At this point the data is between three and four years out of date.

I am not sure about the NASL team's plan on possibly moving up but the OKC Energy was talking like allowing another five to ten years of growth in the market/population before they would be ready to try and make the step up.

[borchard]

They ought to make the "Could Your City Give a Sports Team a Good Home?" an annual article. Refresh the tables data, summarize the changes in who can support or is now overextended and some minor edits to a general description. At this point the data is between three and four years out of date.

I am not sure about the NASL team's plan on possibly moving up but the OKC Energy was talking like allowing another five to ten years of growth in the market/population before they would be ready to try and make the step up.

I know I'm a little jaded on this but I do NOT believe that Oklahoma City will get an MLS franchise. There are just too many other cities larger than us that are ahead of us.
I'm very glad that, so far at least, the NASL folks aren't saying things like "Our goal is MLS!" And that's all I hear from the Energy front office. It's a load of crap, no matter which group says it. Getting 4,000 people to a game won't get you there. Building a 7,000 seat soccer stadium won't get you there. The only number that will get you to MLS is $75,000,000. That's the amount of the check someone will have to write for the franchise fee to get into MLS. Then, there is the probable $100,000,000 that will have to be forked out to build a 20,000 seat Soccer-specific stadium.
I don't want to hear people keep floating that pipe dream. I just want them to say, "Come out and see us play in USL/NASL. It's great!"

[Richard at Remax]

We agree on something for once. I don't think we should shelve out hundreds of millions to get get MLS when it's not the best players in the world.

[OKCretro]

borchard we agree!

I don't see how they give us a MLS franchise without paying the entry fee. 10-15 years ago when there was talk about it, it could have been an option but not now. The league has grown from then.

I would say are best chance to land a 2nd major league team would be hockey, but not sure the thunder would want to share the arena. And a NHL crowd would be completely different than the "blazer supporters" like borchard

[borchard]

And I'm the farthest thing from a soccer-hater. I LOVE soccer. My two, least favorite sports teams in the whole wide world are:
1. The University of Texas
2. The Mexican National Soccer team

I would LOVE to have an MLS team here to support. But I just don't think it is going to happen. We had a chance back in 2002, but Express Sports decided to buy the Redhawks, instead. Back then I believe that the entry fee was ~$10 million. Now it's ~$75 million. And I know that one of the problems in 2002 was that MLS wasn't doing as well as it is today.
I really don't know if the NHL would do well here, either. I used to think it would, but that was back in the mid-nineties when the NHL was booming.
I just want whatever soccer team survives here to be the best it can be, and be an example to other cities as to how it SHOULD operate.

[Laramie]

And I'm the farthest thing from a soccer-hater. I LOVE soccer. My two, least favorite sports teams in the whole wide world are:
1. The University of Texas
2. The Mexican National Soccer team

I would LOVE to have an MLS team here to support. But I just don't think it is going to happen. We had a chance back in 2002, but Express Sports decided to buy the Redhawks, instead. Back then I believe that the entry fee was ~$10 million. Now it's ~$75 million. And I know that one of the problems in 2002 was that MLS wasn't doing as well as it is today.
I really don't know if the NHL would do well here, either. I used to think it would, but that was back in the mid-nineties when the NHL was booming.
I just want whatever soccer team survives here to be the best it can be, and be an example to other cities as to how it SHOULD operate.

We don't have the population, corporate or income bases to support the NHL to compete with the NBA (OKC Thunder) since the seasons interlock. MLS would be marginal; however the Funks are going to ride this train off the track because their track record has always been 'talk and hype' with no intentions to move to the next level. They played this game about the Calgary Flames moving to OKC in the late 90s.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[bradh]

2. The mexican national soccer team

definite agree!

[borchard]

Even though I do NOT believe that Oklahoma City will get an MLS team in the near future (or an NHL team, for that matter) , IF someone were to have the money to TRY I believe what one of the OKC FC owners told me, that that person will need to get the blessing of Clay Bennett, Aubrey McClendon, and the rest of the Thunder ownership group. They have become the benevolent, major-sports dictators in OKC. If they're not behind it, fuggedaboutit.

[Snowman]

Even though I do NOT believe that Oklahoma City will get an MLS team in the near future (or an NHL team, for that matter) , IF someone were to have the money to TRY I believe what one of the OKC FC owners told me, that that person will need to get the blessing of Clay Bennett, Aubrey McClendon, and the rest of the Thunder ownership group. They have become the benevolent, major-sports dictators in OKC. If they're not behind it, fuggedaboutit.

Since the Thunder ownership group has high ranking positions in what seems like half the potential major corporate sponsors and ties with some of the other majors and several of the medium ones it would not be surprising that a MLS group would want them on board.

Though I could see this window closing eventually, MLS is not going to be the same level of sports dollar competition that a NFL/NHL/MLB would be (and the NBA revenue sharing means less reliance on local income) and since they all make more in other business having more amenities for employees they are trying to recruit, several are expanding, can be beneficial (at least a couple of that group are sponsoring at least one of the two teams already).

[White Peacock]

I remember it being said (and I can't find supporting documentation) that an AHL requirement is that a host city be dark (no hockey) for a season prior to establishing an AHL franchise there.

I agree that the buzz going around about Blazers fans once the Barons came in was absurd. People would dog you online if they saw you wearing a Blazers jersey to a Barons game. Pretty ridiculous, since it's important to keep the hockey legacy fans coming if you want the team to thrive.

About free tickets: yes, the Blazers gave a way loads of tickets. I went to nearly every home game their final season and didn't buy a single ticket. If you wanted to go to a Blazers game for free, it wasn't difficult to find a free ticket. Sometimes they were handing them out at 7-11, if I remember correctly.

[borchard]

Maybe someone with inside info can shed some light on something for me.
Why was it not feasible for the Blazers to move in the Cox Center, but it was perfectly OK for the Barons to do that?
I know the city shelled out money to increase the ice-making equipment at the Cox Center, as part of the agreement with Funk, and such

[Jersey Boss]

Maybe someone with inside info can shed some light on something for me.
Why was it not feasible for the Blazers to move in the Cox Center, but it was perfectly OK for the Barons to do that?
I know the city shelled out money to increase the ice-making equipment at the Cox Center, as part of the agreement with Funk, and such

Didn't the Blazers play in the MYRIAD, aka, Cox Center?

[Laramie]

Maybe someone with inside info can shed some light on something for me.
Why was it not feasible for the Blazers to move in the Cox Center, but it was perfectly OK for the Barons to do that?I know the city shelled out money to increase the ice-making equipment at the Cox Center, as part of the agreement with Funk, and such

Inside info? No.

Funk wasn't on board with Lund's red carpet treatment of the NBA. If we recall the initial fallout between Funk & Lund centered around the accommodations the city had Lund make with the Hornets and later the Thunder. The downtown arena lease spelled out that if the NHL or NBA were to come to OKC these groups would be given preference; the agreement with them would supersede any use of the arena by the Blazers.

Lund chose to accommodate the NBA (Hornets & Thunder). The Blazers probably would have been forced out of the downtown arena had they not worked with the NBA. The ice plant at the Cox Center needed to be replaced leaving the State Fair Arena as the Blazers' other option.

At the time, the NBA didn't want ice underneath the court because of condensation concerns. You had this problem in Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Chicago, Los Angeles & New York where the NBA & NHL share the same venue. Maybe the technology & materials for dealing with this concern has improved?

Two arenas does provide Oklahoma City's NBA & AHL teams a lot of flexibility with the schedule. Milwaukee & San Antonio are two cities where the AHL & NBA share the same facility.

We are blessed to have Chesapeake Energy Arena, Cox Convention Center Arena, State Fair Arena, Lazy E Arena (Guthrie), Civic Center Music Hall and Armstrong Auditorium (Edmond) in our metro area; it has to be a plus for the variety of events planned.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[Snowman]

Inside info? No.

Funk wasn't on board with Lund's red carpet treatment of the NBA. If we recall the initial fallout between Funk & Lund centered around the accommodations the city had Lund make with the Hornets and later the Thunder. The downtown arena lease spelled out that if the NHL or NBA were to come to OKC these groups would be given preference; the agreement with them would supersede any use of the arena by the Blazers.

Lund chose to accommodate the NBA (Hornets & Thunder). The Blazers probably would have been forced out of the downtown arena had they not worked with the NBA. The ice plant at the Cox Center needed to be replaced leaving the State Fair Arena as the Blazers' other option.

At the time, the NBA didn't want ice underneath the court because of condensation concerns. You had this problem in Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Chicago, Los Angeles & New York where the NBA & NHL share the same venue. Maybe the technology & materials for dealing with this concern has improved?

Two arenas does provide Oklahoma City's NBA & AHL teams a lot of flexibility with the schedule. Milwaukee & San Antonio are two cities where the AHL & NBA share the same facility.

We are blessed to have Chesapeake Energy Arena, Cox Convention Center Arena, State Fair Arena, Lazy E Arena (Guthrie), Civic Center Music Hall and Armstrong Auditorium (Edmond) in our metro area; it has to be a plus for the variety of events planned.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

It still gets mentioned by announcers any time a player falls where they did not look out of control or nobody had recently dove possibly getting sweat on the floor at those venues, so probably not much has changed in the last five years.

[Tydude]

The reason why we loss the Blazers was that the City decided not to renew its lease with the team.

[borchard]

The reason why we loss the Blazers was that the City decided not to renew its lease with the team.

No. No. No.
Go back to the Oklahoman's archives and read for yourself.

OKC Blazers cease operations; city to talk with AHL team | News OK

The Oklahoma City Blazers have suspended operations after failing to renew their lease with Oklahoma City to play in the Ford Center or Cox Center, a team official said Thursday...The Blazers did not renew their lease with the Ford Center after months of negotiations. According to city documents, the city and SMG were going to grant the Blazers a three-year renewal, but the Blazers have retracted the deal.
After 17 Years, Oklahoma City Blazers Fold Up Shop in the CHL - Defending Big D
announced on July 1 they were suspending operations for the upcoming season after failing to agree with the city on a new lease.
So apparently, maybe even I could have been able to renew the lease. The city and SMG were planning to do it. It was Funk who nixed it.