Question on Tipping

[Jersey Boss]

Recently I have been to two different establishments in Norman that have given me pause as to what is the appropriate tip when dining. Both establishments are set up to where you place your order at the counter, pay at that time, get your own drink, and find seating on your own. A person brings your food order to your table, but unless you are ordering alcohol, that is the last you see of the server. Is a tip warranted and if so how much? BTW, I usually tip 20% at the standard set up of being seated and giving your order to your server and having drinks brought to you. Thanks.

[Pete]

Do they also clean your table for you?

If so, I never tip for counter service but would leave a couple of bucks on the table for the busboy.

[kevinpate]

If I'm doing the bulk of the service, I tend to do a buck for under 10.00 orders, 10%, rounded up to the nearest midbuck for larger orders. On the other hand, there are several serve yourself situations where a nice lass offers to bring additional drinks. The way I sometimes consume soda, that's fair game for the standard 20% or better.

[BBatesokc]

Sounds like the same situation when I eat at Big Truck or other similar restaurants (Big truck calls your name out, but they will also bring it out to you).

I don't tip in those situation unless something out of the ordinary or exceptional service is provided and warrants a tip. Even then it would be minimal ($1-ish per order).

[BoulderSooner]

I know it isn't the most comfortable thing to do but really the best solution is to simply ask if they make $2.34 an hour or if they make a standard hourly. In Oklahoma, wait staff can be paid a unique, low hourly rate if their job has a tip component. However, some companies choose to actually be a little more mature about it and pay standard minimum wages. If you are unsure if the person is relying on a tips, the easiest way is to ask them if they make more than say $5 an hour. If they do, they will most likely be getting the federal minimum. If they are not, they are most likely earning the state loophole rate of less than $3/hr. In which case, please tip generously. There is nothing more demoralizing than to sit in a restaurant that has only a couple customers while making $2.50/hr and then getting little to no tip after giving good service. This is why turnover is so high. It isn't an easy job to begin with but a few bad days can really throw you for a financial loop and with so little coming in on your paycheck, tips make all the difference.

on a weekly basis .. waiters have to make at least full min wage if they don't make enough tips .. their employeer must make up the difference

[RadicalModerate]

As an "overgenerous" tipper (on account of being a hobby cook with relatives in the "hospitality industry"), I really appreciate the thoughts expressed on this thread.
No kidding. No joke.

(My big--unanswered--question in this connection is: Is it better for the people who gave you passable to excellent service to be "tipped" on the credit card receipt; or is cash on the table more appreciated? I always have a moment of concern/unfounded but probably accurate paranoia regarding just how low the "diner" at the next table or booth will stoop when it comes to stealing cash from the intended recipients.)

[BBatesokc]

As an "overgenerous" tipper, I really appreciate the thoughts expressed on this thread.
No kidding. No joke.

(My big--unanswered--question in this regard is: Is it better for the people who gave you passable to excellent service to be "tipped" on the credit card receipt or is cash on the table more appreciated? I always have a moment of concern/unfounded but probably accurate paranoia regarding just how low the "diner" at the next table or booth will stoop when it comes to stealing cash from the intended recipients.)

Coming from the bar industry, we preferred cash tips. Usually the bar would tell us what the sales were for the night and make us record our tips in a tip book. In reality everyone would just get together and record roughly the same amount and pick something that matched the sales recorded. Didn't matter much to me as the girls always made far more than 20% of sales. What the guys recorded was usually pretty accurate.

When it came to credit card tips, a few places I worked for took a small percentage of that for 'processing fees and bookkeeping.'

[RadicalModerate]

Thank you for the responses
(and sorry that I shared my personal distrust of the general "dining public" =)

So . . .
Would it be "bad" form--or "good" form--to put a 15%(+) tip on the receipt and slip 5%(+) in cash into the hand of your waitperson who did most of the actual table service?

The whole "pooling" of tips concept sounds too . . . Friendly Communistic/Early New Testament Activist=) to me.
However, I'm halfway through "Kitchen Confidential" by that [fill in the blank] and am glad that I never seriously considered attempting to become a "chef" and open a restaurant.

("Processing Fees" by "Management" on TIPS . . . Geez . . . I'm speechless at the abomination)

[kevinpate]

I'm not big on putting myself between my server and his/her co-workers .. or the BOH practices of a particular shoppe.

[RadicalModerate]

Does that mean that handing some greenbacks to Your "server" (who excelled at his or her craft) only provides a different opportunity for theft within the policies of the particular shoppe?

Probably it does.
(Even if I have no clue what BOH stands for . . . Bank Of Honduras? Bread On Hand? =)

OK: Cash is out . . . Except at Sonic.
(Which, if you will recall, is about the point at which this entire conversation began =)

[kevinpate]

BOH - Back of House services

As for Sonic, I tend to tip. I'm old school to the point of if I have a dollar, my purchase power sits at 80-85 cents including applicable taxes.

I worked several food shoppes in my teens and early adult days. While I typically wasn't in a server position I did develop a deep respect for the folk who make their living that way. Pretty much all my career and volunteer choices since then have also had a heavy service to others emphasis.

[RadicalModerate]

Ahh . . . Back of House.
(And I agree with you: It is not a good idea to disrupt that sort of working relationship. If you don't belive me, read "Kitchen Confidential" by Anthony the A-hole.)

Thank you, again, Sir.

I only worked at The International House of Pancakes (age 14? dishwasher) and Kentucky Fried Chicken (age 17-19). Bourdin's book sort of validated my impression of The Industry.

Which is why I prefer to cook at home and tip generously when going out to dine.

(P.S.: Since Sonic put the Credit Card swipers on the menu boards, If I don't have a dollar bill in my pocket, I just can't bring myself to enjoy some of the delights that Sonic has to offer. Those kids may not need a "tip" but I think that even a dollar bill--or three--does wonders for their self-esteem.)

[SoonerDave]

Recently I have been to two different establishments in Norman that have given me pause as to what is the appropriate tip when dining. Both establishments are set up to where you place your order at the counter, pay at that time, get your own drink, and find seating on your own. A person brings your food order to your table, but unless you are ordering alcohol, that is the last you see of the server. Is a tip warranted and if so how much? BTW, I usually tip 20% at the standard set up of being seated and giving your order to your server and having drinks brought to you. Thanks.

Pretty simple rule for me: If its a self-service place, where I stand in line to order, stand in line to get my drinks, stand in line to get refills, and all they provide is a table, with the expectation that I clean up my own mess when I'm done, there's no tip. There's no one providing the table service that has earned the tip.

Places like buffets and walk-up cafes generally fall into this category.

If someone comes to my table, takes the order, brings it to me, and checks to make sure my meal is what I wanted and is properly prepared, then they will almost always get 15% of the bill before tax.

If it is someone at a table-service restaurant who brings me a stone-cold appetizer, then lukewarm entrees, and never bothers to even refill my family's water glasses until we're nearly through, they never get zero, but they do get $1 as a reminder that, no, I didn't forget to tip...you didn't come close to earning it.

[RadicalModerate]

I think Sooner Dave is right on target. TipWise:
Irrefutable Real Life, Experience/Logic combined with Generous Kindness.
(plus maybe just a touch of . . . "sarcasm" as a reminder?)

(I don't tip on tax either. That is simply stupid.)

Say!
It just occured to me:
How about we each vote on whether or not our elected "Table Servers"/"Representatives"
get a "tip" in the form of a pension?

Sorry . . .
I detected a trace of "politics" in there . . . =)

[Ginkasa]

Pretty simple rule for me: If its a self-service place, where I stand in line to order, stand in line to get my drinks, stand in line to get refills, and all they provide is a table, with the expectation that I clean up my own mess when I'm done, there's no tip. There's no one providing the table service that has earned the tip.

Places like buffets and walk-up cafes generally fall into this category.

If someone comes to my table, takes the order, brings it to me, and checks to make sure my meal is what I wanted and is properly prepared, then they will almost always get 15% of the bill before tax.

If it is someone at a table-service restaurant who brings me a stone-cold appetizer, then lukewarm entrees, and never bothers to even refill my family's water glasses until we're nearly through, they never get zero, but they do get $1 as a reminder that, no, I didn't forget to tip...you didn't come close to earning it.

Pretty much this, yeah.

[FritterGirl]

Pretty simple rule for me: If its a self-service place, where I stand in line to order, stand in line to get my drinks, stand in line to get refills, and all they provide is a table, with the expectation that I clean up my own mess when I'm done, there's no tip. There's no one providing the table service that has earned the tip.

Places like buffets and walk-up cafes generally fall into this category.

If someone comes to my table, takes the order, brings it to me, and checks to make sure my meal is what I wanted and is properly prepared, then they will almost always get 15% of the bill before tax.

I am in this camp, most definitely. In fact, I really rather resent the idea that when I am up paying for the food I stood in line to order BEFORE I go to get my drinks, napkins, etc., that there is a "TIP" line on the credit card receipt. It really makes me squirm for some reason, because these people are asking for more money than the wage they are likely getting, which is NOT the "server" rate, and for providing the minimum service.

The ONLY difference between these types of restaurants (Nihnja, Smashburger, Yakamoto, come to mind) and fast food restaurants is that they bring the food to me and clean my table. Everything else, I do myself. So really, shouldn't I be tipping myself?

I wonder if anyone in the restaurant industry can clarify the pay break-down for these types of establishments.

[Richard at Remax]

If you need to rely on a tip jar at a self service establishment (texadelphia for example) then you need to find a new job

[SoonerDave]

In fact, I really rather resent the idea that when I am up paying for the food I stood in line to order BEFORE I go to get my drinks, napkins, etc., that there is a "TIP" line on the credit card receipt.

I don't know if they still engage in the practice, because I haven't returned there since it opened, but the Furr's buffet in Moore had the audacity to ask what I wanted to leave for a tip WHEN I WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR!!! I ordered two adult buffets, two child dinners, and just waters to drink, and I kid you not the clerk said something to the effect of "Would you like to go ahead and put your tip on your bill," or "How much of a tip were you going to be leaving today," and I overheard the same line being used at the other register. Not one *ounce* of service had been provided to me and they were already fishing for the tip. It really set me off.

After a half-hour wrangling through horrendously laid-out buffet lines and a horde of people on what was one of their opening weekends, and ultimately having to ask someone just to get water glasses filled, I haven't been back. I remember thinking to myself, "No food can be this good." And it wasn't.

And no, I didn't leave a tip.

Given that the place is typically packed when I drive by, I have to assume things have either gotten better, or people are willing to put up with a lot of hassle for bulk feeding. Given Golden Corral's longevity, I have to assume the latter is no small factor...alas...

The tipping issue is a frustrating one for me, because I remember my days as a busboy at the old ChiChi's in south OKC, and I remember what hard, thankless work it is, and how much I appreciated the tips. We were tipped out of whatever the waiters/waitresses got, and the busboys always got shafted. Fortunately, a few customers saw what the busboys did, and every once in a while one of them would slip me a $20 and tell me "dude, that's for you, no one else. I see how you're working."

Now, on the other side of that fence as a customer, I realize that eating out is an expensive proposition for a family of four, and a tip is part of the deal in most places. I don't mind at all tipping for good service, and I will gladly go over the 15% when someone has really busted their backside for me. All that said, the idea that tipping is just something you're expected to do regardless of the service you receive just doesn't go very far with me. Giving a tip to someone just because they show up at the table is an insult to the workers who DO want to give you a nice restaurant experience and bust their hump to do it.

Hope that makes sense...

[ljbab728]

I don't know if they still engage in the practice, because I haven't returned there since it opened, but the Furr's buffet in Moore had the audacity to ask what I wanted to leave for a tip WHEN I WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR!!! I ordered two adult buffets, two child dinners, and just waters to drink, and I kid you not the clerk said something to the effect of "Would you like to go ahead and put your tip on your bill," or "How much of a tip were you going to be leaving today," and I overheard the same line being used at the other register. Not one *ounce* of service had been provided to me and they were already fishing for the tip. It really set me off.

After a half-hour wrangling through horrendously laid-out buffet lines and a horde of people on what was one of their opening weekends, and ultimately having to ask someone just to get water glasses filled, I haven't been back. I remember thinking to myself, "No food can be this good." And it wasn't.

And no, I didn't leave a tip.

Given that the place is typically packed when I drive by, I have to assume things have either gotten better, or people are willing to put up with a lot of hassle for bulk feeding. Given Golden Corral's longevity, I have to assume the latter is no small factor...alas...

The tipping issue is a frustrating one for me, because I remember my days as a busboy at the old ChiChi's in south OKC, and I remember what hard, thankless work it is, and how much I appreciated the tips. We were tipped out of whatever the waiters/waitresses got, and the busboys always got shafted. Fortunately, a few customers saw what the busboys did, and every once in a while one of them would slip me a $20 and tell me "dude, that's for you, no one else. I see how you're working."

Now, on the other side of that fence as a customer, I realize that eating out is an expensive proposition for a family of four, and a tip is part of the deal in most places. I don't mind at all tipping for good service, and I will gladly go over the 15% when someone has really busted their backside for me. All that said, the idea that tipping is just something you're expected to do regardless of the service you receive just doesn't go very far with me. Giving a tip to someone just because they show up at the table is an insult to the workers who DO want to give you a nice restaurant experience and bust their hump to do it.

Hope that makes sense...

It's interesting that you made that comment about Furr's. It must not be a company policy. I eat occasionally at Furr's at 63rd and May and have never had that experience.

[Joe Kimball]

Anything less than full service will warrant a tip in extraordinary circumstances (special order that is above-and-beyond, nice or I know them, etc.).

It was suggested by a server friend to at least double the tax for a tip (16-18%, depending on where in the metro you are).

[Bill Robertson]

I know it isn't the most comfortable thing to do but really the best solution is to simply ask if they make $2.34 an hour or if they make a standard hourly. In Oklahoma, wait staff can be paid a unique, low hourly rate if their job has a tip component. However, some companies choose to actually be a little more mature about it and pay standard minimum wages. If you are unsure if the person is relying on a tips, the easiest way is to ask them if they make more than say $5 an hour. If they do, they will most likely be getting the federal minimum. If they are not, they are most likely earning the state loophole rate of less than $3/hr. In which case, please tip generously. There is nothing more demoralizing than to sit in a restaurant that has only a couple customers while making $2.50/hr and then getting little to no tip after giving good service. This is why turnover is so high. It isn't an easy job to begin with but a few bad days can really throw you for a financial loop and with so little coming in on your paycheck, tips make all the difference.

Don't blame Oklahoma. The reduced minimum wage tor tip earners is part of the Federal minimum wage law.

[Jersey Boss]

I can't even imagine asking someone what they get paid. On top of that I can't imagine anyone answering the question.

[ctchandler]

sidburgess,
Just the fact that each state is a sovereign state, they can set their own minimum requirements as long as they are not less than the Federal law. And even that depends on whether the particular employer is involved in interstate commerce or strictly a local business. Therefore, they can require higher compensation for waitstaff than is mandated by the feds.
C. T.

Didn't know that. I have talked with servers from other states that were floored at the idea. I wonder if states can go "above and beyond" these requirements?

[JuJuBeans]

I'm not trying to be rude, but to me it as always been common sense if you got good service that person or establishment should get a good tip meaning 20% usually or higher. I also think it's very cheap when a person makes a takeout order and then when they come to pick up their food they don't tip the hostess. The hostess took the time to take the order down, take the ticket order to the kitchen, and carry out the food, and a lot of times help make some part of the food. If you can't afford to give a tip then you shouldn't go out to eat, simple.

[ljbab728]

I'm not trying to be rude, but to me it as always been common sense if you got good service that person or establishment should get a good tip meaning 20% usually or higher. I also think it's very cheap when a person makes a takeout order and then when they come to pick up their food they don't tip the hostess. The hostess took the time to take the order down, take the ticket order to the kitchen, and carry out the food, and a lot of times help make some part of the food. If you can't afford to give a tip then you shouldn't go out to eat, simple.

I"m sorry but just delivering food to someone isn't what is deserving of a tip. A tip should mean getting something more than what is required. When you say the hostess took time to do something, isn't that what her or his (it could be a host you know) time is for? How is that different than driving through a McDonald's? The person at the window takes the time to take your order and hand it to you and sometimes fixes your drink. If someone wants to tip everyone at every place that they eat I have no problem with that but I won't condemn or call someone cheap who picks and chooses where or how much to tip depending on how they feel it's warranted.