Population Growth for OKC

[HOT ROD]

very good points catch and plupanda. I definitely agree about Denver but I can use it to point out that the Denver CSA does NOT include Ft Collins or Colorado Springs even though it arguably could using similar argument for SLC CSA.

Seattle-Tacoma CSA is not similar to SLC in any way; people here in the puget sound are truly dependent upon each other, with King County leading the way for jobs (which is the way Washington State intended it). In this regard I feel OKC is similar as far as the job and economic/entertainment engine for that region and therefore could be lumped.

Bunty - you mentioned just under 15% (which I thought was the catchment) of Stillwater folks work in OKC - but what about shopping, entertainment, transportation - I bet it's higher than that and probably higher than 15% work in OKC if you also include the metro area outside of OKC. Also I'm sure there's OKC metro folks that work in Stillwater at OSU.

Point is, Stillwater is just as dependent on OKC metro as Ogden or Provo are. Would Ogden or Provo exist if SLC weren't there? I'd say yes. Would Stillwater exist if OKC weren't there? I'd say no.

One thing's for sure, College towns ARE indeed hard to classify when they're away from a metro but still have close ties. Stillwater is that oddball for OKC.

[Bunty]

Bunty - you mentioned just under 15% (which I thought was the catchment) of Stillwater folks work in OKC - but what about shopping, entertainment, transportation - I bet it's higher than that and probably higher than 15% work in OKC if you also include the metro area outside of OKC. Also I'm sure there's OKC metro folks that work in Stillwater at OSU.

Point is, Stillwater is just as dependent on OKC metro as Ogden or Provo are. Would Ogden or Provo exist if SLC weren't there? I'd say yes. Would Stillwater exist if OKC weren't there? I'd say no.

One thing's for sure, College towns ARE indeed hard to classify when they're away from a metro but still have close ties. Stillwater is that oddball for OKC.

I doubt as many as just under 15% of Stillwater folks work in the OKC metro. I bet more people all together work at the Toro plant in Perry, Sooner power plant located between Ponca City and Stillwater and in Ponca City itself.

Would Stillwater exist if OKC weren't there? I'd say YES, because of OSU.
Would Stillwater exist if OSU weren't there? I'd still say yes, but would, of course be smaller. Somebody has to work at the manufacturing plants, led by ASCO Aerospace. Stillwater has been referred to as a blue collar college town. The town's efforts to attract manufacturing plants from the 1960s to 1970s led to its fastest growth period in population since 1950.

[Plutonic Panda]

As we were discussing MSA’s, I saw an article about a proposal to increase the population threshold from 50k to 100k in order to be considered a metropolitan area. It’s not sitting well with Lawton or Enid which would no longer be classified as metros if passed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-an...16fe25c6a.html

[Bunty]

As we were discussing MSA’s, I saw an article about a proposal to increase the population threshold from 50k to 100k in order to be considered a metropolitan area. It’s not sitting well with Lawton or Enid which would no longer be classified as metros if passed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-an...16fe25c6a.html

But Enid in recent years dipped below 50,000 in population, so maybe it shouldn't be currently a metro now, especially if the upcoming 2020 census results indicates as such.

In the case of Stillwater, when you minus the college students it's only a city of about 30,000 at best. Further more, if too many college students didn't count themselves as Stillwater residents in the 2020 census after OSU shut down in March, due to the pandemic, then Stillwater may not even show as much as it did in the 2010 census, which is 45,688. Like Enid, Stillwater had lost a little from the 2019 census estimate from 2018, but unlike Enid, Stillwater still a bit over 50,000. Anyway, I wonder if the Stillwater mayor has been informed about the proposal?

[Plutonic Panda]

It’s sad that the majority of Oklahoma doesn’t seem to be doing that well outside of the OKC Metro.

[Laramie]

It’s sad that the majority of Oklahoma doesn’t seem to be doing that well outside of the OKC Metro.

So true, our state needs to protect communities like Enid & Lawton. Enid continues to show signs of slight growth despite losing Continental Resources to OKC. Glad CR decided to remain in-state; they could have taken the Phillips 66 route.

Feel the same about Tulsa when WPX decided to stay in-state and move to OKC. Oklahoma's growth depends on healthy communities like Tulsa, Lawton & Enid. Our state legislators need to take more of a lead on the MSA designated issue.

[mugofbeer]

I think those towns and the other fair sized towns will do fine. With rural populations in parts of the state stagnant or declining, the small towns dotted every 5 - 10 miles apart. Now that we have cars it just isn't necessary to have your markets that close together.

[HOT ROD]

As we were discussing MSA’s, I saw an article about a proposal to increase the population threshold from 50k to 100k in order to be considered a metropolitan area. It’s not sitting well with Lawton or Enid which would no longer be classified as metros if passed.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-an...16fe25c6a.html

Lawton and esp Enid aren't metropolitan areas anyway. What's metropolitan about them? What suburbs do they draw from?

A metro area is a collection of cities that together act as a major city. Lawton would still be passable as a metro area since it has just over 100K in it's city alone and does sort of have suburbs esp if you consider connecting it with Wichita Falls, but Enid? where's the suburbs?

I think it only makes sense that Lawton would be the absolute minimum setup to be a metro area and even then is pushing it imo.

[Bunty]

I think those towns and the other fair sized towns will do fine. With rural populations in parts of the state stagnant or declining, the small towns dotted every 5 - 10 miles apart. Now that we have cars it just isn't necessary to have your markets that close together.

Sounds like good advanced advice from the year 1921. But it's 2021.

Durant is the best example of a Oklahoma town not part of a metro that has been doing fine year after year. Bartlesville, Stillwater, Ada and some others aren't doing bad.

[Bunty]

Lawton and esp Enid aren't metropolitan areas anyway. What's metropolitan about them? What suburbs do they draw from?

A metro area is a collection of cities that together act as a major city. Lawton would still be passable as a metro area since it has just over 100K in it's city alone and does sort of have suburbs esp if you consider connecting it with Wichita Falls, but Enid? where's the suburbs?

I think it only makes sense that Lawton would be the absolute minimum setup to be a metro area and even then is pushing it imo.

In turn, the requirement for micropolitan areas could be moved up from 50,000 to 100,000 pop., but doubt rural people would like that.

The 2019 pop. estimate for Lawton was 93,025 and going down.

Enid should be disqualified as a metro, if it can't officially get its population for 2020 above 50,000.

[mugofbeer]

Sounds like good advanced advice from the year 1921. But it's 2021.

Huh?

[SEMIweather]

Durant's population growth is honestly probably due more to its proximity to DFW than anything else.

[Bunty]

Huh?

You, "Now that we have cars it just isn't necessary to have your markets that close together."

[Bunty]

Durant's population growth is honestly probably due more to its proximity to DFW than anything else.

I doubt it. Ardmore is only a few miles further away from DFW and has just barely grown since 2010. In Durant, the Choctaws have done a lot of job creating construction. For instance, their casino resort draws a lot of people from DFW so in that sense being in fairly close proximity to DFW helps. The casino is 8th largest in the the USA.

[mugofbeer]

You, "Now that we have cars it just isn't necessary to have your markets that close together."

How is that no longers relevant?

[Laramie]

.

I doubt it. Ardmore is only a few miles further away from DFW and has just barely grown since 2010. In Durant, the Choctaws have done a lot of job creating construction. For instance, their casino resort draws a lot of people from DFW so in that sense being in fairly close proximity to DFW helps. The casino is 8th largest in the the USA.

[HOT ROD]

In turn, the requirement for micropolitan areas could be moved up from 50,000 to 100,000 pop., but doubt rural people would like that.

The 2019 pop. estimate for Lawton was 93,025 and going down.

Enid should be disqualified as a metro, if it can't officially get its population for 2020 above 50,000.

oh wow, I didn't realize Lawton dropped below 100K where they've long been. But I can sort of see Lawton as a metro area esp when combined with Wichita Falls.

IMO, Oklahoma has 3 metro areas (OKC, Tulsa, Lawton), the rest are micropolitan at best but IMO that shouldn't even be a concept in that we/census is just saying that for a city at a certain population; it's either Metropolitan (group of cities that act like and/or are dependent on the main city) or not. ...

Hotel corporations use metropolitan monikers in their hotel names: Fairfield Inn & Suites Oklahoma City El Reno or SPRINGHILL SUITES OKLAHOMA CITY MOORE from Marriott Top Hotels in Oklahoma City | Marriott OKC Hotels for example, where the metro area then specific city is noted.

[soonerguru]

Wow, that Choctaw resort in Durant looks spectacular.

[brianinok]

oh wow, I didn't realize Lawton dropped below 100K where they've long been. But I can sort of see Lawton as a metro area esp when combined with Wichita Falls.

Just to shed some light on Lawton, in some very broad brushstrokes, Lawton's economy has been tied to Ft. Sill for most of its history. It never hit 100k in population in the city itself in its most recent peak, but it's been in the 90s for quite some time. I would not say it has suburbs, but definitely has bedroom communities within 10-15 minutes whose citizens rely on Lawton for jobs and shopping, such as Elgin, Cache, Walters, and others. When counting these the metro area of Lawton is well over 100k. Lawton has done a poor job of either diversifying significantly or recruiting significant contractors that would bring in a lot of high paying jobs complimentary to Ft. Sill. It's certainly played a part in Lawton's stagnation over the last decade-plus. I think current leadership there is working hard to change that.

[Plutonic Panda]

Some pretty interesting stats about population migration in OKC

https://kfor.com/news/where-are-new-...y-coming-from/

[PoliSciGuy]

Genuinely and pleasantly surprised at the net migration being *into* OKC from places like Dallas, Houston, Austin and Denver.

[SouthOfTheVillage]

Genuinely and pleasantly surprised at the net migration being *into* OKC from places like Dallas, Houston, Austin and Denver.

It’s getting too expensive in those places, we’re actually starting to get some decent restaurants and bars, and a lot of folks can now work from just about anywhere.

Wouldn’t hate it if OKC started to offer some incentives to remote workers, a la Tulsa.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Makes sense. Even with no income tax, housing is so expensive in DFW plus the super high property tax force some out of the market. Housing is still pretty good here in the OKC metro including decent schools. Most of my family in the DFW area had kids in private school only.

[mugofbeer]

It’s getting too expensive in those places, we’re actually starting to get some decent restaurants and bars, and a lot of folks can now work from just about anywhere.

Wouldn’t hate it if OKC started to offer some incentives to remote workers, a la Tulsa.

My house in Denver has now tripled in 20 years but we can't afford to move in Denver because some parts are 10x or more due to gentrification.

[soonerguru]

Some pretty interesting stats about population migration in OKC

https://kfor.com/news/where-are-new-...y-coming-from/

Very interesting, but 2018 data is ancient history at this point.