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  1. #176
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    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    North Carolina benefits from being an outlier of major population centers. The cost of living and doing business is lower than the bigger urban areas but shipping and transportation costs to access the larger populations are still low enough to make location in NC a net benefit. And, with all due respect to the zealot new urbanists, many choose to live the lifestyle vs crowded and expensive cities. With modern technology and transportation, it isn't necessary to be in NYC or Chicago to be efficient.

    The triangle grows because it values education and provides a high quality educated work force for high paying jobs. Charlotte has banking, and access to capital is a major growth catalyst. Those are things OKC needs to emphasize..education at all levels as a priority and availability of investment capital. We need to leverage our natural resources while we have them and invest back into growth....not keep cutting as per tea partiests. There is a time to save and a time to invest. This is a time in OK and OKCs history we need to invest so we can save when we really need to.

  2. #177

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Completely agree Rover. Developing a strong urban core is important but not everyone prefers that type of living. Many people want to live in a house with a yard. Charlotte has a very strong urban core but also has significant sprawl. The Research Triangle leans heavily toward suburban living. North Carolina is a more balanced state politically also. It leans conservative, but the Charlotte metro is pretty moderate and the Research Triangle is very liberal. I worry about the effect the extreme tea party conservatism is going to have on growth potential in Oklahoma, especially in the long term.

  3. #178

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    North Carolina benefits from being an outlier of major population centers. The cost of living and doing business is lower than the bigger urban areas but shipping and transportation costs to access the larger populations are still low enough to make location in NC a net benefit. And, with all due respect to the zealot new urbanists, many choose to live the lifestyle vs crowded and expensive cities. With modern technology and transportation, it isn't necessary to be in NYC or Chicago to be efficient.

    The triangle grows because it values education and provides a high quality educated work force for high paying jobs. Charlotte has banking, and access to capital is a major growth catalyst. Those are things OKC needs to emphasize..education at all levels as a priority and availability of investment capital. We need to leverage our natural resources while we have them and invest back into growth....not keep cutting as per tea partiests. There is a time to save and a time to invest. This is a time in OK and OKCs history we need to invest so we can save when we really need to.
    It's really astonishing and sad that all of our public services are being starved while our state is having a significant energy boom and low unemployment. OKC's economy is one of the best in the nation and Tulsa is not far behind, but our leadership insists on a poverty mentality for our education system. If this is how they approach things when times are good, I shudder to think how bad it could get here in the next economic hiccup.

    Common education is not being invested in. Higher education is being cut off from state funding, forcing students to pay disproportionately compared to what previous generations paid to attain a basic college degree.

    I've crunched numbers on the "tax cut" that has been passed by our governor, and it's chump change to me (and I am relatively high paid compared to most Oklahomans). This tax cut, which won't even take effect for two years, will create a future revenue crisis for Oklahoma.

    Oklahomans need to think long and hard if this is the direction we want to continue as a state. We need new leadership.

  4. #179

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    It's really astonishing and sad that all of our public services are being starved while our state is having a significant energy boom and low unemployment. OKC's economy is one of the best in the nation and Tulsa is not far behind, but our leadership insists on a poverty mentality for our education system. If this is how they approach things when times are good, I shudder to think how bad it could get here in the next economic hiccup.

    Common education is not being invested in. Higher education is being cut off from state funding, forcing students to pay disproportionately compared to what previous generations paid to attain a basic college degree.

    I've crunched numbers on the "tax cut" that has been passed by our governor, and it's chump change to me (and I am relatively high paid compared to most Oklahomans). This tax cut, which won't even take effect for two years, will create a future revenue crisis for Oklahoma.

    Oklahomans need to think long and hard if this is the direction we want to continue as a state. We need new leadership.
    Honestly our only threat to the progress we've made is ourselves at this point. We need to rise up and kick these monkeys we call the governor and legislators out. Nostreetville is 'that' way.

  5. #180

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Honestly our only threat to the progress we've made is ourselves at this point. We need to rise up and kick these monkeys we call the governor and legislators out. Nostreetville is 'that' way.
    I know that in this falls midterm gubernatorial election I'll be voting Democrat for only the second time in my life. I can't support the extreme positions of the state GOP.

  6. #181

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Using that Wikipedia chart, OKC was 10th in growth percentage wise with metros with a million or more people.
    1. Austin +9.72%
    2. Raleigh +7.43%
    3. Houston +6.63%
    4. San Antonio +6.30%
    5. Orlando +6.25%
    6. Denver +6.05%
    7. Dallas-Fort Worth +5.99%
    8. Washington DC +5.56%
    9. Charlotte +5.34%
    10. Oklahoma City +5.32%

  7. #182

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Oklahoma has about $500 million its rainy day fund coffers. Does it have to be raining to tap the fund & fix the state capitol building and complete construction of the American Indian Cultural Center Museum in OKC--the state owns this project & should finish it. We're in jeopardy of losing the $40 million in private donations & pledges already collected to match the state's portions. It's costly to let this center remain unfinished as costs to secure the site accumulates each year.

    American Indian Cultural Center & Museum (AICCM)
    Oklahoma City


    Our city is experiencing an important phase of growth; this is not the time to stagnate that growth.

    The rainy day fund has accumulated as a result of cuts, shifts, exchanges & transfers over the years to valuable programs like education. A percentage of funds the state receives from the state lottery & the Indian gaming casinos goes toward education. Once the Indian casinos & state lottery were approved; Oklahoma cut the general education funds earmarked for education replacing some of it with revenue taxes collected from the casinos & the state lottery. Does anyone know where we rank in this region (Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, Texas, Arkansas, New Mexico) among states in per pupil funding for education?

    Compare States Education Spending for 2014 - Charts


    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  8. #183

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Laramie View Post
    Oklahoma has about $500 million its rainy day fund coffers. Does it have to be raining to tap the fund & fix the state capitol building and complete construction of the American Indian Cultural Center Museum in OKC--the state owns this project & should finish it. We're in jeopardy of losing the $40 million in private donations & pledges already collected to match the state's portions. It's costly to let this center remain unfinished as costs to secure the site accumulates each year.

    American Indian Cultural Center & Museum (AICCM)
    Oklahoma City


    Our city is experiencing an important phase of growth; this is not the time to stagnate that growth.

    The rainy day fund has accumulated as a result of cuts, shifts, exchanges & transfers over the years to valuable programs like education. A percentage of funds the state receives from the state lottery & the Indian gaming casinos goes toward education. Once the Indian casinos & state lottery were approved; Oklahoma cut the general education funds earmarked for education replacing some of it with revenue taxes collected from the casinos & the state lottery. Does anyone know where we rank in this region (Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, Texas, Arkansas, New Mexico) among states in per pupil funding for education?

    Compare States Education Spending for 2014 - Charts


    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.
    I think we are 49th in spending. In an economic energy boom! I know "throwing money at education" is not "the" answer, but that argument has become stale and hollow. You get what you pay for. You prioritize what's important. Paying educators is not a priority of our leadership; if it were, they would work just as hard for teachers and students as they do the oil titans they reward with ridiculous tax incentives. This oil and gas is our God-given resource. If we were like North Dakota, we could tax people to extract our resources to pay for our quality of life. And it wouldn't affect their willingness to drill or frac one iota.

    And policy wise, we are not moving in the right direction. Barresi's "my way or the highway" approach probably sounds great to angry conservative activists, but it is a disaster in practice. Yesterday's testing debacle, the second in two consecutive years, is unacceptable. I understand that occasionally outsourcing government services is wise and efficient, but is the GOP's answer to everything "privatize?" As with the military, it often costs more to privatize government services and contracts. We're paying that stupid testing company multimillions and they are bungling the job. I don't know about most of you, but I grew up in this state and our standardized testing was seamless. A couple of sharpened number 2 pencils was all that was required.

    How did things get this bad this fast?

    One other note on edit: Our state's voters passed a constitutional amendment many years ago that makes it nearly impossible to raise taxes. That's why any tax cutting should be seriously debated up front. What value are we going to receive for a 1/4% income tax cut? What are we sacrificing? The fact is that whether or not we cut income taxes we have to fund services; we cannot run a deficit like the Feds. So in the end, we'll end up paying more for our tires, being taxed to put solar panels on our homes, paying more for our car tags, and other forms of regressive taxation that disproportionately impact those of us who have to work for a living. This is a phantom tax cut, because they'll make up the revenue somehow, some way, and it won't be in our best interest, while we continue to strangle the budgets for education, corrections, and roads.

    I've never self identified as a "conservative," obviously, but we have had many great Republican leaders in Oklahoma over the years. We have one running our city right now. But the ALEC-funded, Koch Brothers, religiously dogmatic government we have in Oklahoma is not in any way conservative. Reactionary would be a better description. Because I'm not a Republican I have no impact on what happens in that party, but for those of you who are, please nominate responsible leaders for office. Win or lose, we need statesmen / women running our government, regardless of party. We are seriously lacking in that area right now and the state's legislature is the worst I've ever seen it, and I cannot think of a worse governor than what we have right now.

  9. #184

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    soonergugu:

    True, you've brought up some good points.

    We can't throw funds at education then look for immediate results; it takes time. The state's funding system is flawed; yet we continue to give tax breaks/incentives to companies who pay very little in taxes.

    School bonds & millage elections are hitting the aging property owners who no longer have a stake in public education because their children are grown. Funds need to grow in proportion with the growth of education. Oklahoma wants to do away with state income taxes--they believe that this will put them on a more level playing field to compete with Texas for jobs.

    Salute MAPS II for Kids which helped with renovations and several new school buildings (capital improvements) in the Oklahoma City metropolitan areas. An environment that's conducive to learning is a start. Schools use other sources (candy money, vending machines, fund-raising) to supplement the individual school's general fund accounts.

    If we want to attract & maintain teachers; bottom line, you're going to have to pay them or they will relocate. There are separate fund sources the state allocates for capital improvements & teacher salaries.

    The investment in an individual's higher education has skyrocketed. The average college student invests nearly $15,000 per semester--leaving a four year degree program with debts in the neighborhood of $125,000. Out-of-state tuition & fees are much higher. These government & private student loans have to be repaid.


    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  10. #185

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    And then there's this. No, I didn't write this article.

    Oklahoma faces budget crisis despite economic boom | News OK

  11. #186

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    And then there's this. No, I didn't write this article.

    Oklahoma faces budget crisis despite economic boom | News OK
    I tried to start an article with this because we've been discussing it. Just a damn shame. This type of nonsense is going to hurt Oklahoma.

  12. #187

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by TaurusNYC View Post
    I agree, Mary Fallin is an embarassment. But I wanted to comment on the population charts. Clicking the link to newgeography, I found that all metropolitan areas listed except for one (Philadelaphia at -0.01%) have experienced popultion growth from 2010 to 2013. For example, New York has gained 400,000 residents since 2010. Think about that. New York City has absorbed nearly as many residents as the entire population of OKC - in three years. American cities and suburbs are growing, because the entire population of the country is growing. We have one of the higher birth rates in the developed world, we have a lot of immigrants, and domestically people are leaving small towns for big cities. We imagine that people are leaving New York, Chicago, Cleveland, and St. Louis, and Buffalo, but in fact all of those metropoliltan areas are growing.
    Rust Belt cities are great on foreign migration. That said, I don't think it's that bad to be in a list with New York, Chicago, Cleveland, St Louis, Buffalo, and Providence. Those are great cities with high quality of life. Austria, Denmark, and Sweden are also losing population.

  13. #188

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    And then there's this. No, I didn't write this article.

    Oklahoma faces budget crisis despite economic boom | News OK
    Good reporting by the Oklahoman's Sean Murphy.

    This approach is an important way to stimulate the economy, create jobs and help middle class families, Fallin said defending her plan.
    Mary Fallin stood up against the Republican controlled legislature when she was lieutenant governor; as governor, she reminds me of a puppet on a string.

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  14. #189

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    I'm so sick of Fallin, Inhofe, Kern, Shannon, and these other dumb retreads. We need a modern government to run this state, not a bunch of corrupt hayseeds. Come on millenials, help move us into the 21st Century.

    Please put down the artisan porters and IPAs long enough to register and vote!

  15. #190

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Guru - great post, what exactly does a corrupt hayseed look like?

  16. #191

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Here ya go, Sparty.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	OTg4ZDI0NWNmMSMvaHNyZkx5bDM3ZHh3UGRFZmhWLVBWZS1jNDRRPS85eDk6NDcwMngyOTcwLzg0MHg1MzAvczMuYW1hem9u.jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	56.9 KB 
ID:	7600

    When you click on the image you notice the strange, grimacing faces of Bobby Jindal and that other dude behind her. By the looks on their faces it's as if she allowed a rancid flatulence to escape.

  17. #192

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Here ya go, Sparty.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	OTg4ZDI0NWNmMSMvaHNyZkx5bDM3ZHh3UGRFZmhWLVBWZS1jNDRRPS85eDk6NDcwMngyOTcwLzg0MHg1MzAvczMuYW1hem9u.jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	56.9 KB 
ID:	7600

    When you click on the image you notice the strange, grimacing faces of Bobby Jindal and that other dude behind her. By the looks on their faces it's as if she allowed a rancid flatulence to escape.
    Escape? Thank goodness that her sphincter muscle allowed for it to seep out or she would have blown the top off Mount Manitoba.

    She does look as though she cut some cheese or expelled some lethal gas. Could have saved the state some money on the upcoming executions; the poor guy behind her looks faint. Governor Jindal appears stunned.

    "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

  18. #193

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    ^ Lol. You guys are a gas!

  19. #194
    MFracas84 Guest

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    The city population estimates for 2013 are supposed to be released in May. Well it is the 20th so it should be any time. Also, unless we had a serious downturn in our economy in the last year, we should surpass the 600,000 mark in 2013.

  20. #195

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    I am also awaiting the revised projections. We are closing in on Memphis and Jacksonville

  21. #196

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    My guess is around 612,000!

    ^Memphis is still quite a bit larger by about 55,000 people, and OKC trails Jacksonville by about 237,000 people.

    OKC is closing in on Louisville, however. Portland would be a contender as well but that's a tough call. Portland and OKC grew at exactly the same rate from 2010-2012 and Portland was larger by about 4,000 people.

    I'm also going to guess that Louisville falls 2 spots from #27 to #29, while OKC and Portland move up a spot each to #28 and #27 respectively. San Jose is very close to 1,000,000 and Austin to 900,000.

  22. #197

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    We all know its ultimately metro area population that really matters. I would definitely not consider Portland, Oregon a peer city of OKC despite city populations being relatively close. Their metro population is almost double plus their is the boutique factor so there is nothing in OKC that can remotely compare to Portland.

  23. #198

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    We all know its ultimately metro area population that really matters. I would definitely not consider Portland, Oregon a peer city of OKC despite city populations being relatively close. Their metro population is almost double plus their is the boutique factor so there is nothing in OKC that can remotely compare to Portland.
    I usually stay out of the comparison discussions, but was that last line really necessary? People are talking about city populations here, nothing more. Don't worry, we don't have enough hubris to think we compare to Portland in anything but city population. But, we're improving faster than they are. Portland had its leap out of obscurity a couple of decades ago. We're doing that now. In addition, Portland has no Tulsa equivalent to compete with for population. The state of Oregon has about the same population as Oklahoma. So it's no surprise their metro population is bigger.

  24. #199

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    We all know its ultimately metro area population that really matters. I would definitely not consider Portland, Oregon a peer city of OKC despite city populations being relatively close. Their metro population is almost double plus their is the boutique factor so there is nothing in OKC that can remotely compare to Portland.
    Are you serious? Literally nothing you said changes the fact that OKC proper and Portland proper are close in population. That's all anyone was saying. No one said "peer city" or "metro area" in any of the posts above you. Give it a rest, man.

  25. Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    We all know its ultimately metro area population that really matters. I would definitely not consider Portland, Oregon a peer city of OKC despite city populations being relatively close. Their metro population is almost double plus their is the boutique factor so there is nothing in OKC that can remotely compare to Portland.
    Absolutely correct, Portland has more short and stubby office towers compared to OKC.

    And the Trailblazers are not as good as the Thunder.

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