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  1. #1701

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo1 View Post
    What is more significant? A city’s “proper” population, or its MSA?
    I don't think either is more significant than the other. Most people probably look at city population though.

  2. #1702

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    The MSA population is far more important. Just take a look at some of those cities that are "behind" OKC's city proper in population. Atlanta, for example. Now, I love OKC, but do you think anybody seriously thinks of OKC as the "bigger" of those two cities?

    OKC's city proper will keep growing and may very well reach the top 10-15 sometime in our lifetime. The reason is the great annexation blitz and the fact that housing subdivisions way out in the wheat fields are still in OKC proper. Many of the legacy cities were much smaller in geography and have been "built out" for some time, so the growth is in the suburbs. Metro areas are a far more reasonable way to actually compare populations.

  3. #1703

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Definitely MSA. Metro cities feed off each other. I.e. person in Moore shopping in OKC, person working in MWC living in OKC.

    The actual city limit population doesnt show the true effect of the entire city. I.e. if all of the suburbs didnt exist, but OKC stayed the same size. What would OKC's economy look like?

  4. #1704

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    MSA definitely bears more significant weight.

    At the time the NBA approved OKC for NBA Supersonics' relocation; our MSA was 1.2 million in 2008. General rule: 1 million per big league sport (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL); OKC has been comfortable with its support of the Thunder; 414 consecutive sellouts since 2010.

    Feel we are ready to get on the radar for Major League Soccer (MLS).

    There were no major league professional franchise in our area are state. The nearest city was Dallas 200+ miles away.

  5. #1705

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisHayes View Post
    I don't think either is more significant than the other. Most people probably look at city population though.
    I feel the opposite on both of these points. I feel the MSA is far more significant. I always look at MSAs and know the top 50 off the top of my head, but have no clue about city data except maybe the top 5.

  6. #1706

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    MSA's are far more important.

    Some cities have very small boundaries and huge MSA's.

  7. #1707

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    MSA's are far more important.

    Some cities have very small boundaries and huge MSA's.
    St. Louis

  8. #1708

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    MSA's are far more important.

    Some cities have very small boundaries and huge MSA's.
    St Louis for example; city has a little over 300,000, MSA is 2.8M.

  9. #1709

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Indeed, St. Louis is the perfect example. The city proper is tiny. It’s boundaries were set in the 1800s. It was built out by 1940. There is no possible way it could grow. Except, except: some successful cities are growing because they are increasing density.

  10. #1710

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    For STL to grow it would have to have a sustained period where the myriad 4-family and 8-family and 16-family apartment buildings were replaced with buildings of 32 or 64 or 108 units. Right now that’s not happening: on the contrary, gentrification is causing things to move in the opposite direction.

  11. #1711

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    The huge discussion in STL right now, on internet boards, in random coffee shops, etc where people might be wringing hands at population loss: is population itself actually that important? Are you better off with 300K or 900K in the same footprint? You would think 900K or more, right? Well, that made sense long ago. It might still make sense if the schools, utilities, infrastructure was ready for it.

    It’s a TOTALLY different conversation than cities where you just randomly plat subdivisions and the population grows. As if by accident.

  12. #1712

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    While I agree MSA is more significant, being a top 25 city by population allow Okc to continue to build on its urban core and downtown development to attract significantly more people to live downtown.

  13. #1713

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Jax is the most equal to OKC. Both have big footprints. I think OKC has bigger MSA area potential though.

    I like smart growth meaning don’t grow too fast just grow steady.

  14. #1714

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Itís so weird that how close Jax is to OKC to size and population. Jax is naturally a bit more dense I would assume where development exists due to the swamps and marshes everywhere that render much land protected or not developable.

    When I have visited Jacksonville in the past, it was more impressive to me in terms of its infrastructure as well as the vibrancy it seemed to have had that OKC doesnít sometimes. It also has better shopping developments I wonder how much of that simply comes from being in the middle of a corridor that connects Miami to the NE and the entire easy coast. So far Jacksonville has been the only east coast city Iíve visited, strangely enough.

  15. #1715

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    It’s so weird that how close Jax is to OKC to size and population. Jax is naturally a bit more dense I would assume where development exists due to the swamps and marshes everywhere that render much land protected or not developable.

    When I have visited Jacksonville in the past, it was more impressive to me in terms of its infrastructure as well as the vibrancy it seemed to have had that OKC doesn’t sometimes. It also has better shopping developments I wonder how much of that simply comes from being in the middle of a corridor that connects Miami to the NE and the entire easy coast. So far Jacksonville has been the only east coast city I’ve visited, strangely enough.
    Jax has ocean and the St Johns river. Lots of Navy/military. But the pulp mill smell at times just wafts into the air its a bad smell. I remember when one of the large car dealerships had their lot swallowed up by sinkhole. Years ago they implemented an impact fee for all new house construction to pay for increased infrastructure demand. And a big advantage their roads don’t go bad like here since weather is more stable. They get around 8 freezing nights per year and its not much below 32 at that.

  16. #1716

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    I still find it super humorous that the NFL bet big on Jacksonville over San Antonio back in the 90s. For those that don’t know, the city to get one of the expansion teams at the time came down to San Antonio and Jacksonville. The NFL felt Jacksonville had a brighter future and awarded them the team. I’m sure the Cowboys played a part of it as wel, I’m sure Jerry did his best to argue giving it to Jacksonville, but I know they saw more potential in Jacksonville. Well, that didn’t play out the way they thought... lol

  17. Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    I kept up with population a lot in the mid 2000s and I think the thing that really blew my mind back then was learning that Miami didn't even make the Top 50 (I think) and then learning the city only has like 48 square miles of land.

  18. #1718

    Default Re: Population Growth for OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    I kept up with population a lot in the mid 2000s and I think the thing that really blew my mind back then was learning that Miami didn't even make the Top 50 (I think) and then learning the city only has like 48 square miles of land.
    Yeah, Miami the city is very small, but Miami the metro is pretty darn big.

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