Population Growth for OKC

[Rover]

What do we believe the net migration effect of these social issues is vs. just not having a quality educational system and enough jobs for college grads?

[bchris02]

What do we believe the net migration effect of these social issues is vs. just not having a quality educational system and enough jobs for college grads?

I think for most people, the social issues are probably a secondary factor that may influence people's decision one way or another, if they are a factor at all. But for some people, they matter more.

[DenverPoke]

How would you compare Denver with KC? It's on my list of retirement locations. Looking for KC input.

We like KC pretty well. We went out to dinner during our first week in town and our server had moved from Ft Collins to KC, we asked him how he liked KC and he said KC had a lot more soul than Denver. I would agree with this, it does have a more organic feel than Denver and the civic pride is obvious. From an urban and growth perspective, KC reminds me of Denver in about 2008-2009, just before the boom. The downtown core has started to revitalize and development is ramping up (nowhere near Denver levels though).

Pros: Traffic (lots of interstates) is a breeze, the people are more friendly, slower pace, more trees/greenery, more affordable homes, easier drive to other urban centers, better architecture
Cons: Bugs, humidity, weather, other than housing not much difference in cost of living (higher property taxes, insurance, groceries (strange) in KC)

We were fortunate and bought a home in Denver (City Park area) before the prices skyrocketed and still own that home, we will probably move back to Denver someday for retirement. KC is a nice city though, no real complaints.

[OKC Guy]

This is a great link to see the cost/salary to purchase a home. OKC comes in at 43 cheapest and most of Cali cities were in top 10 most expensive. OKC median home price is $161,000 and takes $41,335 in salary to afford. On the flip side #9 Denver median home price is $438,300 and needs a salary of $91,672 to afford. You can see the methodology in link plus all the other cities. For grins the most expensive was San Jose median home price is $1,250,000 and needs a salary of $254,836 to afford.

Mapped: The Salary Needed To Buy A Home In 50 U.S. Metro Areas

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...us-metro-areas

[josh]

I'd probably take KC over any city in Texas.

Reading that statement leads me to believe you haven’t been to many Texas cities.

[Plutonic Panda]

Exactly. This dude has barely lived here and gets all his information from an online message board. Trying to tell lifelong citizens they don't know their own city.

I spent 18 years of my life in OKC. I am 25.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

So as another poster said and I’ll use his/her words against you, your experience invalidates mine and makes it laughable. Okay gotcha.

So the underlying premise here that makes you right and me wrong is a few things: 1) I don’t know OKC 2) I don’t live there and you do which by default means you know more about the city than I do 3) you’re connoisseur who knows anything and everything arts and diversity in OKC and since you’ve traveled the world other be damned should they disagree with your take of OKC’s art scene 4) OKC’s art scene is geared towards white old families. Did I hit the nail on the head with that one?

Either way, you can have the last word. The only comment geared towards you in my original post was calling you out in making it about race which is such a cheap shot. The rest of what I wrote was providing opposing viewpoints as an attempt to counter Catch 22’s among the various other comments criticizing OKC. I’m always down to criticize OKC. I respect your opinion of OKC. I disagree with it and I think you don’t know what you’re talking about, and I am suspect of many of your claims. But whatever. Again, have the last word. Cheers!

[LocoAko]

One other thing I want to point out about OKC is that the LGBT scene is an absolute joke for a city this size. I'm not talking about LGBT-friendliness as much as activities available for gay people to meet other people other than bars or phone apps. The 39th St strip is neglected and depressing and desperately needs some investment to bring it out of the 1980s. It needs to be integrated into the urban fabric of the city like gayborhoods are in just about every other small and major city in 2019. Living here really feels like living in a small town stuck in the past in that respect.

I don't disagree, but as a counterpoint to some of the discussion in this thread (while recognizing this is singularly anecdotal) -- I have never had a problem in OKC at any bars I visited with my boyfriend. We tend to visit the hip, younger, and more liberal places, so I'm not surprised. But the one time I went to a bar in Dallas (haven't gone much in my seven years here, lol), my friend got called a f*ggot on the street. It may have a bigger, more integrated gay scene, but that alone sure didn't make me feel more welcome in the city as a whole. *shrug*

[bchris02]

I don't disagree, but as a counterpoint to some of the discussion in this thread (while recognizing this is singularly anecdotal) -- I have never had a problem in OKC at any bars I visited with my boyfriend. We tend to visit the hip, younger, and more liberal places, so I'm not surprised. But the one time I went to a bar in Dallas (haven't gone much in my seven years here, lol), my friend got called a f*ggot on the street. It may have a bigger, more integrated gay scene, but that alone sure didn't make me feel more welcome in the city as a whole. *shrug*

Yeah central OKC is a welcoming, gay friendly place. I would say the Plaza District, the Paseo, and Uptown are the most. Bricktown is a little less so in my opinion but that's because its more heavily patronized by people who drive in from the suburbs and rural Oklahoma. What is better in Dallas is the scene. Not just the gay nightlife but also avenues other than bars to meet other people. In OKC, it's pretty much the bars, which these days are pretty sad, or phone apps.

But honestly for me, I've figured out that if OKC was as urban as Paris and as gay friendly as San Francisco, I would still need to leave. I have a past here I just need to leave to move on from.

[OKCRT]

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And I mean always,right?

There must be something about Dallas that I am missing because I don't see the big draw other than maybe jobs. I wouldn't live in Dallas over OKC unless I had to.

[Rover]

I don't disagree, but as a counterpoint to some of the discussion in this thread (while recognizing this is singularly anecdotal) -- I have never had a problem in OKC at any bars I visited with my boyfriend. We tend to visit the hip, younger, and more liberal places, so I'm not surprised. But the one time I went to a bar in Dallas (haven't gone much in my seven years here, lol), my friend got called a f*ggot on the street. It may have a bigger, more integrated gay scene, but that alone sure didn't make me feel more welcome in the city as a whole. *shrug*

Outside of the redneck bars, all of OKc, Edmond, Norman are pretty friendly. But even heterosexuals get hassled by drunks in redneck bars. Lol.

[dankrutka]

Reading that statement leads me to believe you haven’t been to many Texas cities.

Lol. I live in DFW. I've been to all the Texas cities many times over.

[HOT ROD]

Bchris:

let me know if I'm digging way too personal, but it seems to me that there are much deeper reasons why you have issues with OKC well beyond the development or social standards we mostly talk about. I'd take a guess it might have to do with when/if/how you came out and were maybe traumatized - seeing the familiar OKC sites may be reminders of those tragic times.

If this is true then I understand how you feel. BUT, I also think it is only fair for you to site that as your reason for needing to leave rather than what OKC is lacking or not urban or whatever. As you said, even if OKC was as LGBT embracing as SF you'd still have an issue here. But I'm sure you wouldn't have those same issue in SF, right?

You were traumatized in OKC in the past by whomever to where still being here, albeit in your words much better feeling in the central city - you still have those feelings just being here. I think it is clear to make that distinction - again, completely understandable - and separate out things where OKC can truly improve.

I like your ideas of the 39th Street district (streetscape - which I think is coming, gay themed fixtures - which probably CAN happen today, and more businesses to the district not just nightlife) all of these CAN happen in today's 2019 OKC. Again, I think we just need the leadership to come up with the vision and development map of the district then lean on the new politicians of the city as well as residents such as yourself who want these amenities to make it all happen.

Think about this, every gayborhood had to start from something and somewhere. People in the LGBT community should step up and seize the opportunity.

While I'm not a member of the LGBT community, I do want to see OKC succeed and embrace everyone, and LGBT hasn't been a focus but the bones are there and I believe the time is now to move it forward.

[mugofbeer]

Outside of the redneck bars, all of OKc, Edmond, Norman are pretty friendly. But even heterosexuals get hassled by drunks in redneck bars. Lol.

Lol, and don't leave out Texans.

[GoGators]

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/c...osable-suburbs

Interesting read today about the problems with the type of growth happening in in the metroplex. Relevant to the majority of sprawling growth we are seeing in okc.

[Bunty]

I would fully agree with this if this were the only reason I was considering moving. However, my reasons are many.

In regards to the gayborhood, I think a new streetscape would be a great start. Interest in 39th needs to be revived. This would probably be very controversial but I'd like to see ornamental streetlights and public art/murals in the area. There needs to be more going on to keep the community in OKC on the weekends instead of so many people going to Dallas. It would be nice to see LGBT-oriented businesses there that aren't bars. There used to be some but most of them are gone now. It would be nice to see Angles renovated, turned into a modern dance club, and reopened. There's so much potential up there but as it stands now, its about where Bricktown was in the early '90s.

You are right though. I think the future of OKC is currently brighter than ever. If there was ever a time where these kind of changes were most likely to come to fruition, it's now.

Interesting now with a gay city councilor, whose area includes the 39th area, how a couple of streets that run by the Habana got repaved with asphalt. I think 39th had long bottomed out and is finally trying to move up from there. The success of the Boom from the drag shows being packed on weekend nights has helped the area. It will further help, though, if the new owners of the Habana do more than a band-aid approach in trying to update or improve it. Enclosing at least one of the swimming pools for year round use would be cool.

[bchris02]

The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. And I mean always,right?

There must be something about Dallas that I am missing because I don't see the big draw other than maybe jobs. I wouldn't live in Dallas over OKC unless I had to.

I just got back from a weekend in Dallas and I absolutely loved it. While the city isn't my first choice I do believe I could happily live there and it is my fallback plan. But that is my own perspective. Dallas and OKC are very different types of places. Because of that, it's also absurd to compare OKC to Dallas like people often do.

Bchris:

let me know if I'm digging way too personal, but it seems to me that there are much deeper reasons why you have issues with OKC well beyond the development or social standards we mostly talk about. I'd take a guess it might have to do with when/if/how you came out and were maybe traumatized - seeing the familiar OKC sites may be reminders of those tragic times.

You are more or less correct. I have a pretty good life here in OKC actually, by any objective standpoint. The city is a little smaller than my preference, the dominant culture isn't really a culture I resonate with, and I absolutely can't stand the climate (one of the worst negatives for me), but being that I am well established here and I like the central city alright, part of me feels like I'm crazy for moving. And OKC offers just enough to do that I'm not bored and desperate to leave. And it's becoming better all the time. Most of the complaints I used to have about OKC aren't really issues anymore.

But, you are right. It bothers me just to be here because of some things that happened in my past. I have to get out of here to put that past behind me and I think I'm going to use the opportunity to move to a city that I feel would be a better fit. Right now, my top choices are Denver or Phoenix, with Dallas as a backup plan. I have to get out of here though. Been thinking about some other options if I wanted to be more "risky."

[soonerguru]

I've reread the last several pages and it's weird that people are still arguing about this. For starters, all of the people commenting clearly love our city and participate in this forum because they want our city to continue to evolve and improve. It has improved an incredible amount in the last few years, but as some have noted, some cities are improving faster.

I've reread bchris's comments and EBAH's comments and they can be summed up very simply. As for bchris, he likes OKC's improvement and appreciates many things happening, but would be more comfortable in a larger city with more options, and an improved LGBTQ scene. He also has many bad memories haunting him from his upbringing here and desires a clean break elsewhere. Who could argue with that?

As for EBAH, he is an avid participant in the city's renaissance and its arts and music scene. But in his particular career, there are few if any advancement opportunities. He rightly criticized the cloying conservatism of our city's business and arts culture. No shocker there. I remember hearing years ago that Polly Nichols was bashing a museum for having nude paintings. Nothing EBAH said about our art or theatre scene is not true. And for those saying, "be the change," the guy has lived here his whole life and participated in everything he can be a part of. Finally, there are people suggesting he ply his trade in the HVAC industry. What? What an absurd, if well intended, suggestion. The city does not have many product design jobs, his industry, so we suck in that area. If you're an OU fan, it's like our defensive line. They need to get better. Well, OKC needs to get its collective head out of Harold Hamm's ass and build a 21st Century economy. There is no reason to just throw up our hands and say, well, good luck in LA. No. We need to get these fat oilies out of the boardroom of the Chamber and get busy and compete. Because if we don't, we will die. It's pretty simple.

If you guys hate these honest responses, then get off your ass even more than you already do and make our city better. OKC is not a finished product by a long shot.

[bchris02]

I've reread the last several pages and it's weird that people are still arguing about this. For starters, all of the people commenting clearly love our city and participate in this forum because they want our city to continue to evolve and improve. It has improved an incredible amount in the last few years, but as some have noted, some cities are improving faster.

I've reread bchris's comments and EBAH's comments and they can be summed up very simply. As for bchris, he likes OKC's improvement and appreciates many things happening, but would be more comfortable in a larger city with more options, and an improved LGBTQ scene. He also has many bad memories haunting him from his upbringing here and desires a clean break elsewhere. Who could argue with that?

As for EBAH, he is an avid participant in the city's renaissance and its arts and music scene. But in his particular career, there are few if any advancement opportunities. He rightly criticized the cloying conservatism of our city's business and arts culture. No shocker there. I remember hearing years ago that Polly Nichols was bashing a museum for having nude paintings. Nothing EBAH said about our art or theatre scene is not true. And for those saying, "be the change," the guy has lived here his whole life and participated in everything he can be a part of. Finally, there are people suggesting he ply his trade in the HVAC industry. What? What an absurd, if well intended, suggestion. The city does not have many product design jobs, his industry, so we suck in that area. If you're an OU fan, it's like our defensive line. They need to get better. Well, OKC needs to get its collective head out of Harold Hamm's ass and build a 21st Century economy. There is no reason to just throw up our hands and say, well, good luck in LA. No. We need to get these fat oilies out of the boardroom of the Chamber and get busy and compete. Because if we don't, we will die. It's pretty simple.

If you guys hate these honest responses, then get off your ass even more than you already do and make our city better. OKC is not a finished product by a long shot.

Excellent post and thanks.

I think what OKC really needs is a more progressive corporate culture. I was going to nitpick some stuff but I'll just sum it up by saying the big money based here is mostly very conservative and that gets reflected in what gets funded and what doesn't. I mean, the 39th Street strip is a perfect example of that.

But how does the city get a more progressive corporate culture? It either has to happen organically or the city has to snag a major corporate relocation and it has to be a company with a progressive-oriented culture. For either to be a possibility, the city has to invest in quality of life improvements.

[HangryHippo]

OKC with George Kaiser would be kicking tremendous ass.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Bchris, Just a quick post of encouragement. I wish I was your age again as I would do so many things differently. One is recognizing that youth is the time to go out on the edge and see the country (or the world!). I think you know what you need to do. I completely understand the need to get away from ghosts, too. Old hauntings, with memories everywhere, can do a number on your psyche. A fresh start sometimes is the clear choice, and especially when you are young.

[Mike_M]

Excellent post and thanks.
But how does the city get a more progressive corporate culture? It either has to happen organically or the city has to snag a major corporate relocation and it has to be a company with a progressive-oriented culture. For either to be a possibility, the city has to invest in quality of life improvements.

I think more than snagging a big ticket relocation, it would be better for the city to fund a strong startup culture or entice mid-sized companies to relocate here. This would allow the city to responsibly allocate funds and create realistic incentives that benefit both parties rather than giving away $100 million to build a small city that will just end up deserted the next time the economy dips.

[Laramie]

Fresh starts are good; however if you allow yourself to fall into the same trap you found yourself in OKC; no city (Phoenix, Denver, or Dallas) will be large enough for you to hide.

Spent four years in the Fort Worth-Arlington area; kept running into some of the same people I thought were left behind in OKC--felt like the Twilight Zone.

Best of luck Bchris, you deserve happiness...

[Rover]

The problem here is venture capital...there is very little here. Last year, nationally, 3/4 of all venture capital money went to 3 states.... California, New York and Massachusetts. Primarily, Bay Area, NYC and Boston. The rest was spread across the US, with secondary successes in Columbus, St. Louis, Atlanta, Denver, and some others. Comparable to OKC in the top 10 was Charlotte, Columbus and Portland.

If there isn't much venture capital and start-ups are bootstrapping, they need a big population so they can market themselves locally until they are healthy enough to go wider. There are some exception in tech because of the internet.

Biotech is a big start-up catalyst, but OKC has only a fledgling market in that, and when someone succeeds they get bought out and absorbed somewhere else.

Sometimes it takes someone special to really kick off things that then balloon. Look what Dell did for Austin, which is now a big tech center.

Instead of the sniping I see on here about companies like Pay Com, we need to leverage those developers, etc., that leave there and encourage them to start their own competing companies. We have talent here but we need more initiatives.

[Rover]

BTW, judging best places to start a business is dependant on the criteria. According to Fortune Magazine in an article a year ago, OKC was the TOP large US city to start a business in. #2 was Austin. Business environment and costs was great... "Access to Resources" (read "capital") was poor.