Population Growth for OKC

[EBAH]

Yeaaaaaaaah I’m usually the first to criticize OKC but as someone who doesn’t want to live there I am still calling bull on many of the claims made agains the city. It’s a matter of opinion of course, but after having been to many art museums and cultural attractions as I get more involved with it in LA, I see OKC has some pretty good museums and amenities. Obviously they compare to what a cosmopolitan city can offer but how many cities of OKC’s size does? Tulsa is incredibly lucky to have something like the Gilcrease Museum. I often here many in LA community complain that our museums are lacking even with having a museum like The Getty.

As far as some of the other criticisms like “the city is geared for old white people,” what a quick way to instantly ruin any credibility you had. Mayor Holt even just came out and said he is making seeking a more diverse voice for the city one of his main objectives. Quit living in the past. OKC is a very diverse city. Almost every time I’m in the core I always here a chatter of about 2-3 foreign languages and I constantly meet foreigners who have settled down there and love it. My entire family is Persian and Brazilian and they love OKC. No issue with “amenities geared towards white old people.”

Wait you don't even live here? and dude I live "in the core" hahahaha omg

[Mike_M]

Okay this has spun out of control, and I'll admit some fault on that.

I just want to clarify that I don't think that this is a racist place. That is not what I or EBAH are insinuating. I've enjoyed my entire time in Oklahoma as a person of color. Outside of general ignorance, I've never experienced real racism.

What we are saying is that the vast majority of consumers, leaders, and politicians in Oklahoma are caucasian. By no fault of their own or the businesses that serve them, everything here is catered to that majority in a very obvious way. It is likely not a big deal to most people, but it is frustrating that people who do not drink the Kool-Aid that Oklahoma is on the cutting edge are dismissed. There are a lot of us who, while we appreciate the strides OKC has made, based on what we have experienced elsewhere, there are other cities who just do what OKC does better. Some of us don't have 5-10 years to just wait for it to maybe get where we want it to be. Some of us don't have time or resources to "do it ourselves". It's just a fact that there are people in this city/state who have lifestyle preferences that don't line up with what it offers. I don't think it's fair to just assume we haven't Oklahoma'd correctly.

And Dallas doesn't count in my opinion. I feel like I'm driving through a giant mall when I'm there. It feels so inorganically grown because they literally just bring every store, every brand, every restaurant, every amenity and put it on every corner. It's like the Dubai of America.

[Plutonic Panda]

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.

Sorry dude but when you use a stupid term like “geared towards old white people” you loose credibility.

Have a seat and join the travelers but because he/she can bond with you over your opinions that my tone is condescending. I really could care less what you think.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wait you don't even live here? and dude I live "in the core" hahahaha omg

I am not sure why you find that funny but no, I live in Los Angeles. I was born in OKC and raised in Dallas in my early teen years and OKC my later Years.

[GoGators]

The reason I have chosen to move to, and stay in Oklahoma City is because of the opportunity be a part of building something.

I kind of look at it like a job. Living in NYC or Seattle etc is like working for Google. Well established, stable, you will get all the perks that come with that but (most people) are not going to have any real say in the direction the company goes.

Living in OKC is kind of like joining a startup company. Not nearly as many perks, and the pay isnt as good. The start up may never truly be successful or make it big. But you can jump in and have an actual say in how things get done. There is access to get involved more and maybe become a decision maker. And since you are in on the ground floor, if the start up does make it big you will reap a much larger reward.

That's just how I have come to look at it. I definitely understand the pull of the major city and i have lived in several different ones including Dallas, and Dallas ain't it. Dallas is greatly overrated. You get all of the hassles of a major city with almost zero perks. Besides the job market being hot, Ive never understood the pull Dallas has.

[Jeepnokc]

But you can jump in and have an actual say in how things get done. There is access to get involved more and maybe become a decision maker. And since you are in on the ground floor, if the start up does make it big you will reap a much larger reward.
.

Very true as shown by the recent elections for City Council and Mayor. Lots of young new blood which is great.

[oklip955]

I'm going to jump in on this. One of the reasons why I'm here/still here is because of the cheap cost of living and because I know the area. As you get older its harder to just pick up and move some place new when you have no connections to it. I'm retired on a state pension. The state does give decent tax break to pensions. ($10K exemption of retirement income) Yah I know some states have no state income tax but they have to make it up some how. Texas has high property tax. Now how is that a savings??? At least with the cap you know how much your property tax is going up each year. When you are on a fixed income and I mean fix since we have had no colas in 11 years and everything like health insurrance, auto and food etc continues to climb. Oh but you can get another job and go back to work. Not if your health doesn't allow you much. I saw that this state ie Okc and Tulsa is not a bad place if you are retired. Now rural areas with doctor shortages and hospital closings is another issue. For the 2 metro areas I say overall the medical situations is not too awful. Add in the lower cost of housing and outdoor things to do, and cheap groceries and more of the larger stores coming or have come here. Not too bad after all for those of us retired.

[EBAH]

I am not sure why you find that funny but no, I live in Los Angeles. I was born in OKC and raised in Dallas in my early teen years and OKC my later Years.

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

[Mike_M]

Well, it's not really funny, I'm just saying you're jumping on me saying my art museums are adequate, there are plenty of things to do, there are plenty of good amenities, it's diverse enough, yadda yadda, and like, man, I LIVE here, and have every year of the last 38, 2-3 miles outside of the very center, I ride my bike through this city every day, I make art here, I spend my money here, I entertain myself here. And yes, the large institutions are mostly targeted at white middle class families and as an actual citizen of this city 24 hours a day, I experience that. It's not funny that you don't live here, it's laughable at your supposed expertise in MY home.

Exactly. This dude has barely lived here and gets all his information from an online message board. Trying to tell lifelong citizens they don't know their own city.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City & Tulsa are the state's most populated cities. Just amazed how both communities have strategic plans for change. True, it's a slow and methodical process--these cities don't have room for mistakes.

We are seeing 'change' in Oklahoma that will chart its future; especially in the areas of liquor & marijuana laws, straight & gay, whites & non whites, young & old along with families & singles.

OKC is becoming more diverse with communities & districts like Asian, Capitol Hill, Stockyards City, Plaza, Paseo Arts, Bricktown, Midtown & Northeast with well planned vibrant commerce districts with community input.

OKC reflects a sampling of the virtues & vices of big cities; so with that said, we need to plan & manage our growth.

[bchris02]

There are a lot of us who, while we appreciate the strides OKC has made, based on what we have experienced elsewhere, there are other cities who just do what OKC does better. Some of us don't have 5-10 years to just wait for it to maybe get where we want it to be. Some of us don't have time or resources to "do it ourselves". It's just a fact that there are people in this city/state who have lifestyle preferences that don't line up with what it offers. I don't think it's fair to just assume we haven't Oklahoma'd correctly.

This is me 100%. I'll probably be in OKC one more year, unless something unexpected happens. After that my current plan is to move even if I have to pick a city and just go. I'm currently working on saving enough so that I have a cushion in case it takes me some time to find employment. The last thing I'd want to do is leave and end up back here broke and unemployed. But I've also reached the point in my life where it's getting time to "crap or get off the pot" as they say. I either need to move somewhere that I feel is a better fit or I just need to accept living in OKC long-term and buy a house here.

And Dallas doesn't count in my opinion. I feel like I'm driving through a giant mall when I'm there. It feels so inorganically grown because they literally just bring every store, every brand, every restaurant, every amenity and put it on every corner. It's like the Dubai of America.

As a last resort I may end up moving to Dallas, but it's not my favorite city and there are others I'd rather move to. However, as a single gay mid-30s man, I think I'd be happier in Dallas than in OKC, despite its drawbacks like traffic and sprawl. I can see myself living there and liking it.

I've tried everything I know how to do to force myself to be happy in OKC because after all, it would be so much easier for me to just stay here and put down roots than to move.

[bchris02]

But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much.

Yes, OKC is the buckle of the Bible Belt and is proud of it. As somebody who has experienced a lot of religious trauma in my life, including ex-gay conversion therapy, this specific issue makes it hard for me to live in OKC even though the urban core is more liberal and more secular. In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

[hoya]

I mean, man, it's fine if you disagree, and I get you may have different tastes, but really, I've lived here for 38 years, I also travel VERY extensively, I do go to other museums, I do take in a lot of other places and a lot of the available things here. Also, for the thousanth time, dude all I Was commenting on really was that we don't have a diverse enough labor market for me to find a job here doing what I do that pays what I cost. It's as simple as that, we don't have tech, we don't have consumer products companies. We just don't have the jobs, and my original post was that yeah I find a lot of the amenities lacking, but the art I make with friends and the scene I'm in here makes up for that. But, we don't have jobs for me. But really, yes, this is a city that puts all of it's weight and capital in making itself a family friendly, christian friendly kind of place, and as neither a christian or a "family man" a lot of the mainstream places don't appear to me as much. I mean dude, I went to a fabulous Jean Arp exhibition at the Nasher a month or so ago in Dallas, across from the retrospective on American Precisionism at DMA, a little while prior to that I went to the Stuart Davis retrospective at Crystal Bridges, and on and on and on, these are all actually super softball, wide audience kind of traveling exhibits and still massively better than the bible exhibits and paper dress exhibits that the OKCMOA get (I mean we have an impressionism exhibit coming up, but godamn man, its not the 60's). I do actually know what I'm talking about and I find your tone pretty condescending. I don't hate this city at all, but it IS geared to middle class families from the suburbs for the most part because that's who pays the bills. Fact is if youre like me and are 38 and dont have kids around here and haven't moved to Moore or Edmond, you're weird and this city isn't really made for you. But really, I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's my home, born and raised and I enjoy it too, I just always wish it could grow out of it's comfy little niche and be a little more edgy, a little more exciting.

I'll tell you the same thing I told bchris02. If you're one of those people whose happiness requires something Oklahoma just doesn't have, then this probably isn't the place for you.

If your dream is to be a deep sea fisherman, then you need to go somewhere next to an ocean. If you want to look out your window and see the Statue of Liberty, well we don't have that here. You're not going to be able to train for the Olympic snowskiing team here in a state with no big mountains and no snow. Oklahoma has a lot of great amenities for a lot of different people, but if you want something super-specialized, we very well may not have it. I don't think most cities our size are going to have the things you desire. If you're only gonna be happy in a city of 10 million people, then by all means follow your dreams.

But I think you may have a hard time finding a city with tons of ultra specialized art galleries, operas, ballets, and is majority non-white and non-Christian and also is within your price range. Every city on Earth is a compromise to some degree.

[David]

In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

Even coming from a different perspective (non-gay, none of those experiences), I understand where you are coming from with this and agree to a large degree. I would probably not still be here either without the more liberal and secular urban core growing and doing its thing.

[jonny d]

Yes, OKC is the buckle of the Bible Belt and is proud of it. As somebody who has experienced a lot of religious trauma in my life, including ex-gay conversion therapy, this specific issue makes it hard for me to live in OKC even though the urban core is more liberal and more secular. In fact, living in the urban core is the only thing that has made this place tolerable for me at all. I'm sure I'll take some heat for saying this.

While I agree with you that OKC is in the Bible Belt, calling it the buckle is asinine. You are just used to seeing the stuff here. Texas is probably worse, and I am sure there are states east of Texas much worse than Oklahoma.

[hoya]

Larger cities will generally have larger subcultures. If you are a gay asian man who reenacts Klingon operas, then you might have a hard time finding a large group of like-minded people in OKC. I'm sure Los Angeles will have a dozen chapters of the gay asian Klingon opera club, but they've got a lot more people than we do.

I truly believe that most people can be very happy here in OKC. The people here are laid back and friendly, and there's a hell of a lot more stuff to do than there used to be. We've still got a ways to go before we're competitive with other 2nd tier cities, but we've made tremendous progress very quickly. OKC is like an older neighborhood where people are fixing up all the houses. Buy now because in 10 years you won't be able to afford it.

Now maybe you're one of those handful of people who just can't find what they're looking for here. That's okay, different people want different things. But you can't blame OKC for not being San Francisco or Manhattan.

[EBAH]

Larger cities will generally have larger subcultures. If you are a gay asian man who reenacts Klingon operas, then you might have a hard time finding a large group of like-minded people in OKC. I'm sure Los Angeles will have a dozen chapters of the gay asian Klingon opera club, but they've got a lot more people than we do.

I truly believe that most people can be very happy here in OKC. The people here are laid back and friendly, and there's a hell of a lot more stuff to do than there used to be. We've still got a ways to go before we're competitive with other 2nd tier cities, but we've made tremendous progress very quickly. OKC is like an older neighborhood where people are fixing up all the houses. Buy now because in 10 years you won't be able to afford it.

Now maybe you're one of those handful of people who just can't find what they're looking for here. That's okay, different people want different things. But you can't blame OKC for not being San Francisco or Manhattan.

Yeah I mean like I've said numerous times in this thread, I'M HAPPY HERE, THERE IS JUST NO JOB MARKET FOR ME. And I'm not comparing it to Manhattan or LA, I'm comparing it to Louisville, Kansas City, etc who have a more diverse economy and more arts and culture amenities. I'm totally fine living here and appreciate the scale and comfort of this place. But, when I start looking for a job again, there just literally aren't almost any options. This city has made a lot of progress and I've been here for it and been an active part of it, but I am a bit disappointed that our economy hasn't diversified very much over the same period. I can live with the amenities and still find loads of fun things to do.

[EBAH]

And to the point of the art museum, they had a show a couple of years ago of art made by people born after the capitalization of China, it was actually maybe the best touring exhibit our museum has had in a long time, and we haven't had anything of that caliber since. But a very good illustration of how the people funding our institutions affect the content of a place like that and how it influences what gets to come through here were the signs warning you more than once of "objectionable content" in the exhibit. When I asked the desk attendant what the objectionable content was, having just gone through the exhibit and not being able to figure it out, I was told it was a video installation of several 17-20 boys partying in an apartment in their underwear. Basically because it could have been maybe seen as vaguely gay in nature. That's not a good art museum.

[Jeepnokc]

Yeah I mean like I've said numerous times in this thread, I'M HAPPY HERE, THERE IS JUST NO JOB MARKET FOR ME. And I'm not comparing it to Manhattan or LA, I'm comparing it to Louisville, Kansas City, etc who have a more diverse economy and more arts and culture amenities. I'm totally fine living here and appreciate the scale and comfort of this place. But, when I start looking for a job again, there just literally aren't almost any options. This city has made a lot of progress and I've been here for it and been an active part of it, but I am a bit disappointed that our economy hasn't diversified very much over the same period. I can live with the amenities and still find loads of fun things to do.

I am curious as to what job you are looking for that isn't in OKC? ( I realize we don't offer every job like Hoya's reference to deep sea fisherman).

[GoGators]

Even coming from a different perspective (non-gay, none of those experiences), I understand where you are coming from with this and agree to a large degree. I would probably not still be here either without the more liberal and secular urban core growing and doing its thing.

I’ve lived in the urban core for years. I have a fairly large base of friends who live in the core and I maybe know 1 to 2 people who are even remotely religious. But I’ve never really ran into that problem anywhere I’ve been in Oklahoma. I even grew up in rural western Oklahoma and went to school at OSU and in both places the vast majority of the people I knew and interacted with weren’t religious. Of course this could be a unique experience of mine and people of like mind usually find each other. The “Bible Belt” thing about Oklahoma has just never been a problem for me.

[EBAH]

I am curious as to what job you are looking for that isn't in OKC? ( I realize we don't offer every job like Hoya's reference to deep sea fisherman).

I'm a designer and product developer. There are a few jobs like that in Oklahoma City, I have had a couple. But when you reach the higher level (I've been a product designer for 10+ years) we have only kind of two types, either one for a cool tiny company that pays hilariously low, or one for an oil related company or like insurance company that pays well but offers very little exciting work. I could always freelance, but again, not a lot of clients here so it'd likely still mean working out of state for the most part. This is a pretty awful market to look for real design or tech jobs in, even Omaha is better, then when you get to the level of KC or Minneapolis it gets like worlds better, and then of course LA/SF/NYC are on a whole other planet.

[bchris02]

But a very good illustration of how the people funding our institutions affect the content of a place like that and how it influences what gets to come through here were the signs warning you more than once of "objectionable content" in the exhibit. When I asked the desk attendant what the objectionable content was, having just gone through the exhibit and not being able to figure it out, I was told it was a video installation of several 17-20 boys partying in an apartment in their underwear. Basically because it could have been maybe seen as vaguely gay in nature. That's not a good art museum.

This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I criticize the Bible Belt mentality of OKC. I maybe shouldn't have said this is the buckle because that can be argued until the end of the world, but fundamentalism runs deep in the dominant culture here. And when I say dominant culture, I'm talking Edmond and far NW OKC culture because that's where most of the money is.

Like I've said though, the urban core of OKC is a liberal, tolerant, open-minded, and progressive oasis, but it's also small.

[hoya]

I was told it was a video installation of several 17-20 boys partying in an apartment in their underwear. Basically because it could have been maybe seen as vaguely gay in nature.

If some of the subjects are teenagers, I could see people finding it objectionable because some of them are underage. But I will agree that OKC will generally choose the safe, family friendly option if they've got a choice.

[EBAH]

This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about when I criticize the Bible Belt mentality of OKC. I maybe shouldn't have said this is the buckle because that can be argued until the end of the world, but fundamentalism runs deep in the dominant culture here.

Like I've said though, the urban core of OKC is a liberal, tolerant, open-minded, and progressive oasis, but it's also small.

Oh completely agreed, the core of okc is chill, my wife and I joke that we try not to leave "the box" as we call the area between I235, I44, I40 and like 63rdish street, except to go to the inner south side which I also like just fine. I feel comfortable in the box, I like the box

[EBAH]

If some of the subjects are teenagers, I could see people finding it objectionable because some of them are underage. But I will agree that OKC will generally choose the safe, family friendly option if they've got a choice.

oh yeah I can understand some people being shocked by it, but there was nothing of a sexual nature going on in the video and I'd be willing to bet $100 that if those boys had been in a football locker room no one would have thought anything of it at all