Population Growth for OKC

[TheTravellers]

The point is it's not a unique thought or factor. Everywhere thinks their education system sucks.

In reality they're all about the same and home life is the determining factor.

No, they're *not* all about the same, didn't you read the articles? Doesn't matter what people think, facts are facts and the facts above show that some municipalities fund their education systems better than others, and some actively de-fund their education systems.

[fromdust]

So, how much should we spend on education? Does the dollar amount really make a better education? US spends more per student than any other country, I think, $12,800 in 2017. Portugal spends like $8,700 per student, about a grand more than OK, but blows our kids (nation) out of the water in rankings. I don't have a dog in the fight as I do not have kids, but I do care that on the world stage we are woefully behind other developed nations with our greatly funded, but crap education.

[TheTravellers]

So, how much should we spend on education? Does the dollar amount really make a better education? US spends more per student than any other country, I think, $12,800 in 2017. Portugal spends like $8,700 per student, about a grand more than OK, but blows our kids (nation) out of the water in rankings. I don't have a dog in the fight as I do not have kids, but I do care that on the world stage we are woefully behind other developed nations with our greatly funded, but crap education.

I don't have kids either, but we need to spend smarter. Also, politicians need to be *for* education, at every turn, and we need to treat our teachers and school staff as we do our IT staff and stock traders and CEOs, in pay and respect and support. We do none of that here in the US.

[OKCRealtor]

It's almost like we should just scrap the entire secondary education system after a certain point, maybe middle school? It does very little to prepare and teach actual adult/life skills. Not to mention the quality of teachers is very underwhelming as a whole. Of course the requirements/pay have always been minimal so what do we expect. I have a current client that just went under contract yesterday who is a public school teacher and it's unreal to me that this client has a public teaching position here in OK.

[scottk]

It's almost like we should just scrap the entire secondary education system after a certain point, maybe middle school? It does very little to prepare and teach actual adult/life skills. Not to mention the quality of teachers is very underwhelming as a whole. Of course the requirements/pay have always been minimal so what do we expect. I have a current client that just went under contract yesterday who is a public school teacher and it's unreal to me that this client has a public teaching position here in OK.

Shhhhh.....quiet....you may reveal the plan.

I think certain leadership at various levels wants public education to fall flat on its face, place the blame on teachers in the classroom. Makes it easier to bring in a corporation or similar that can run schools like a business.

[Rover]

It amazes me how many people actually prefer to not place a priority on education. The US keeps slipping in many competitive arenas in the world and Oklahoma drags itself to the bottom of the US and seems proud of it. The anti education and anti critical thinking crowd keeps growing here it seems. Being the cheapest is championed over being the most prepared and brightest.

[dcsooner]

It amazes me how many people actually prefer to not place a priority on education. The US keeps slipping in many competitive arenas in the world and Oklahoma drags itself to the bottom of the US and seems proud of it. The anti education and anti critical thinking crowd keeps growing here it seems. Being the cheapest is championed over being the most prepared and brightest.

Yep

[mugofbeer]

I read a rather apalling article on the tremendous bloat in administrative/bureaucratic roles in universities across the country as a major cause of unpayable college costs. Maybe there should be a thorough look at public school systems and administrative bloat? Every school system in OK has administration. Maybe consolidate a few small systems? Eliminate a handful of unneeded administrators and you have a small teacher lay raise. I could name a few other things but trying not to get political.

[Bunty]

I read a rather apalling article on the tremendous bloat in administrative/bureaucratic roles in universities across the country as a major cause of unpayable college costs. Maybe there should be a thorough look at public school systems and administrative bloat? Every school system in OK has administration. Maybe consolidate a few small systems? Eliminate a handful of unneeded administrators and you have a small teacher lay raise. I could name a few other things but trying not to get political.

It doesn't seem politically popular to consolidate the administrations of at least several small neighboring school districts into one. It probably wouldn't do much good to better fund education, since legislators would find it as a convenient way to further cut funding for education. But then I don't see how it's in the best interest of legislators to further cut funding for education under any circumstances, since the agenda with many of them is to pass a law to provide vouchers for private schools. I can't get enthused about such a plan, since I have to pay property taxes so new local public schools can be built to replace old ones, yet legislators want to pass a law for vouchers for private schools to entice students away from new public-school buildings that have cost millions of dollars to build.

[Laramie]

State may want to consider 'extra' funds in the amount of say 5% or 15% (Three year period) for Districts that merge (Consolidate) into one.
Extend it to 20% (Three year period) if they merge with the State's two largest districts (Tulsa and Oklahoma City). Those current
superintendents of districts that merge could become deputy superintendents (Pay - hold harmless) until those individuals retire; then the restructuring could take place.

Tennessee - 141 school districts.
Kansas - 287 school districts.
New Mexico 129 school districts.
Colorado 178 school districts.
Oklahoma 509 school districts.

Oklahoma should set a target to reduce its school districts below 300 by 2030.

Cities MSA the size of Oklahoma City with public school enrollments:

1,566,487 - Milwaukee 78,683
1,448,411 - Raleigh 159,802
1,425,695 - Oklahoma City 31,026
1,336,103 - Memphis 110,780
1,324,062 - Richmond 22,000
1,023,988 - Tulsa 32,569 (Oklahoma's largest district)

Need to determine what would be an optimum number of students for cities of similar size.

[HangryHippo]

Consolidation needs to happen. It’s a huge issue.

[GoGators]

I read a rather apalling article on the tremendous bloat in administrative/bureaucratic roles in universities across the country as a major cause of unpayable college costs. Maybe there should be a thorough look at public school systems and administrative bloat? Every school system in OK has administration. Maybe consolidate a few small systems? Eliminate a handful of unneeded administrators and you have a small teacher lay raise. I could name a few other things but trying not to get political.

Consolidation will never happen because it is a very unpopular proposition in the rural areas of the state and the majority of state lawmakers represent these rural areas. They will not touch this topic.

The consolidation argument is a red herring. It’s a convenient excuse some use for the lack of funding our schools receive. There is a reason why the people who point to consolidation as the answer to our funding problems also have had super majorities in all of state government for 20+ years and have never done anything about it.

Personally, I am not against consolidation, but it’s just not going to happen. Plus, if it were to happen it wouldn’t move the needle at all on the state’s lack of funding for public schools. There’s just not that much money in admin costs to make a difference.

[Laramie]

Spending per student in K-12 public schools: https://usafacts.org/data/topics/peo...SAAEgIM1_D_BwE

[BDP]

The point is it's not a unique thought or factor. Everywhere thinks their education system sucks.

In reality they're all about the same and home life is the determining factor.

If the school systems are all about the same and the varying results of those systems are determined by home life, what are the determining factors of home life that result in those variances?

[chssooner]

I don't think a single, solitary company gives a single crap what states spend on this stuff. I don't think it affects things as much as people on here want it to. Company press releases may say it does, but it all comes down to money given to them (or saved for them).

[BDP]

I don't think a single, solitary company gives a single crap what states spend on this stuff. I don't think it affects things as much as people on here want it to. Company press releases may say it does, but it all comes down to money given to them (or saved for them).

Yes, they don't care what a state spends on "this stuff", but they do care about what the labor pool in a given location has to offer, relevant to their needs. If their product or service requires an educated labor pool, they will look for a market with an educated labor pool, then ask that government for money or savings.

[Rover]

I don't think a single, solitary company gives a single crap what states spend on this stuff. I don't think it affects things as much as people on here want it to. Company press releases may say it does, but it all comes down to money given to them (or saved for them).

If you can’t get workers that make you efficient because they are poorly educated and you can’t get good support staff it doesn’t matter how much money is sent your way. This state needs more educated workers unless all this state wants to have available is laborers. HQs don’t relocate to badly educated areas.

[chssooner]

If you can’t get workers that make you efficient because they are poorly educated and you can’t get good support staff it doesn’t matter how much money is sent your way. This state needs more educated workers unless all this state wants to have available is laborers. HQs don’t relocate to badly educated areas.

Yeah, but high school education does not matter. Oklahoma spends a decent amount per student at the college level. Just not enough in Oklahoma go to college. Nobody cars if you know the pythagorean theorem. Nobody, I promise. Sure, I am not saying Oklahoma does not need to improve its attitude about education, no doubt it needs to improve. But I do not feel it is as high on the reasons why companies don't come here. I think it comes down to tax breaks. Texas kids are just as uneducated as Oklahoma (especially in higher education: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education). But they can offer major a breaks that Oklahoma just can't.

[Laramie]

Thanks for the link Chssooner.

[BDP]

Yeah, but high school education does not matter ... Nobody cars if you know the pythagorean theorem.

If the Pythagorean theorem is part of the high school curriculum, then, yeah, we can do better. lol.

It is definitely not just about gross dollars spent, in either direction. Arbitrarily spending more money can be just as reckless as arbitrarily cutting it.

And having an educated community has obvious intrinsic value. There is a strange tendency to try and boil this down to a single variable equation to be measured against a rigid and narrow standard.

But that may not be surprising if students aren't being introduced to simple multivariable equations, like the Pythagorean theorem, until high school.

So, we can look at what the amounts spent are, but ultimately it's about how that money is being spent.

[Rover]

Yeah, but high school education does not matter. Oklahoma spends a decent amount per student at the college level. Just not enough in Oklahoma go to college. Nobody cars if you know the pythagorean theorem. Nobody, I promise. Sure, I am not saying Oklahoma does not need to improve its attitude about education, no doubt it needs to improve. But I do not feel it is as high on the reasons why companies don't come here. I think it comes down to tax breaks. Texas kids are just as uneducated as Oklahoma (especially in higher education: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ings/education). But they can offer major a breaks that Oklahoma just can't.

This is the ignorance about what is important that is pervasive here. We can draw a few companies that only need basic laborers. But forget about headquarters and tech companies.

If you truly believe it is only incentives that create economic growth, then you should realize we will NEVER win that game. You just can’t tax low paid employees enough to consistently compete. You’ll get a few scraps, but the others dine on the steak.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

If the Pythagorean theorem is part of the high school curriculum, then, yeah, we can do better. lol.

It is definitely not just about gross dollars spent, in either direction. Arbitrarily spending more money can be just as reckless as arbitrarily cutting it.

And having an educated community has obvious intrinsic value. There is a strange tendency to try and boil this down to a single variable equation to be measured against a rigid and narrow standard.

But that may not be surprising if students aren't being introduced to simple multivariable equations, like the Pythagorean theorem, until high school.

So, we can look at what the amounts spent are, but ultimately it's about how that money is being spent.

I find the quadratic equation far more cocktail party useful than the Pythagorean formulae, which is rather pedantic.
I tell most of my students to just add Planck's constant to their equation and that usually holds up well enough for their dissertation oral defense.

[gopokes88]

No, they're *not* all about the same, didn't you read the articles? Doesn't matter what people think, facts are facts and the facts above show that some municipalities fund their education systems better than others, and some actively de-fund their education systems.

I don't have to read an article, I've lived it.

[TheTravellers]

I don't have to read an article, I've lived it.

Personal anecdotes are always so much more valid than actual facts... Not quite sure what you've actually lived through in order to completely discount the fact that some states increase funding for education and others decrease it, which means that education systems are *not* "all about the same". South Dakota increasing 24% is not the same as Oklahoma cutting 2.9%.

[gopokes88]

Personal anecdotes are always so much more valid than actual facts... Not quite sure what you've actually lived through in order to completely discount the fact that some states increase funding for education and others decrease it, which means that education systems are *not* "all about the same". South Dakota increasing 24% is not the same as Oklahoma cutting 2.9%.

i said outcomes and attitudes about education are all pretty much the same.

and i can form my opinions however i choose. NM has extremely high funding per pupil and a far far worse education system than Oklahoma because of their culture towards education. culture matters the most and that starts at home