Enogex to move 400 jobs to dt OKC!

[BoulderSooner]

5 bucks to park downtown is nothing ... in denver several of the central lots charge 15-20 bucks a day of course you can park a couple of block away for 5 bucks or you can park further away and take the lightrail/streetcar somethign that will be coming soon to our downtown

[Rover]

LOL. New York City - $15-65 per day. On an hourly rate it will be from $10-20 an hour. And people walk blocks. Our whole downtown would be considered an easy walk from any downtown lot. Or in a commute, they still have to walk several blocks for a subway unless they are right on the line. People here are spoiled and I think a little lazy.

[BDP]

That said, I take it the Santa Fe garage is in close proximity? Where is Santa Fe garage in relation to the Continental Resources move?

I'll try and be nice, but really, Larry, you're complaining about a parking problem downtown, yet you don't even know where one of the largest parking structures downtown is or its proximity to Continental Resources future location?

Seriously, there is parking all over downtown and I even park on the street all of the time with little problem. Maybe downtown's parking problem is simply that you don't know where to park...

[BDP]

If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.

Maybe. But you can subtract the time it takes you to do a lot of pre and post work errands and you don't have to bring lunch every day to stay within your alloted lunch break time. (and, thanks for the chuckle... "urban jungle"... ha! )

If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria?

This is the laziness factor. I know you are not afflicted with this, but many are and despite the fact that most companies in most major cities would not have to incur the cost and allocation of real estate to supply such parking saturation, here you have to just to make it so that most people can park and get to their office without ever encountering a cross walk, because they would otherwise cry "parking problem!".

Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute.

Whoa... what downtown are we talking about? 20 minutes from Santa Fe to the middle of downtown? Even if that were true, I can guarantee you it wouldn't take 20 minutes to walk from one major garage to another, and that's the real measurement: How far away is the farthest destination from a parking garage. No way it's 20 minutes. I know that I can walk from Park to the Ford Center in about 10 minutes and I'll walk past at least 3 good sized parking garages in that span.

There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.

If we didn't have driveways and there were stores, restaurants, and other services between that garage and my house, I wouldn't mind. In fact, that sounds nice.

It's hilarious because there are places where millions of people live and work where it may take you 45 minutes just to find a parking space within a quarter of a mile of your destination. We have, what, maybe 48 square blocks in our CBD with a small fraction of the city's work force working there with parking within two blocks of every destination and we have a parking problem? You're going to walk AT MOST 5 blocks. That's about 15 minutes max. However, many have parking where they don't even hit a crosswalk on the way to their office.

Now, if people here really think we will have a parking problem downtown until we can eliminate the need to use a crosswalk for every worker on the way to their office and do it for free... well, then I guess we're screwed, because I don't think any city core has ever pulled that off in history. And to do so would probably eliminate just about every advantage urban areas have by using up all the real estate for cars and not people. I think this is just another case where a company compared the advantages of being in the suburbs and being downtown and found that, for them, there are plenty of benefits to being downtown that more than outweigh the possible inconvenience of adding a 10 minute walk to the workers day because of parking.

[Of Sound Mind]

Nice post, BDP.

I work downtown. I love working downtown. I walk two blocks from the parking garage where I park to Leadership Square where I work. It's no big deal. And it certainly doesn't add much time to my daily commute to and from work. From my vantage point, it's a lot of belly-aching based on very little actual experience.

[Larry OKC]

I'll try and be nice, but really, Larry, you're complaining about a parking problem downtown, yet you don't even know where one of the largest parking structures downtown is or its proximity to Continental Resources future location?

Seriously, there is parking all over downtown and I even park on the street all of the time with little problem. Maybe downtown's parking problem is simply that you don't know where to park...

Thank you for taking the effort to be nice. It can be a challenge sometimes (I fall guilty of that temptation myself from time to time). It is because of the fact that whenever I have had a NEED to go downtown I didn't know where to park etc, and the only things you notice are the $5 here $10 there sort of things. That puts me off of wanting to return voluntarily. I know I am not the only one. For those that know all of the in/outs thats great. more power to you. if our relatively "cheap" DT parking fees aren't a detriment to you, again great! More power to you. But they are to others. The fact that it costs even more in other Cities makes me less inclined to move there (along with other higher cost of living items). So I will stay here.

i like many others are used to free parking that is in very close proximity to the place I want to go to. Simple fact. If given a choice, I am going to go where there isn't a similar "parking problem" (also the reason I avoid Malls during the Christmas season unless I absolutely have to, not because of cost but proximity).

[Larry OKC]

LOL. New York City - $15-65 per day. On an hourly rate it will be from $10-20 an hour. And people walk blocks. Our whole downtown would be considered an easy walk from any downtown lot. Or in a commute, they still have to walk several blocks for a subway unless they are right on the line. People here are spoiled and I think a little lazy.

Then it shouldn't be a problem convincing everyone in NYC to move here and live/work DT. Go for it! LOL

[Pete]

Due to the compact nature of downtown, no parking garage is more than .25 miles from any office building (and of course, in most cases it's much closer than that).

The average person walks 3 MPH, so that means the longest possible walk from parking to office is 5 minutes.

[Just the facts]

If only OKC had some kind of transit system that would allow someone to park for free on the edge of downtown and ride it to within 50' of their final destination.

I also wish someone would create a Downtown OKC App for Android and iPhone. They could include a parking feature that shows the parking garages, rates, and location on map. When the new smart parking meters are installed you could even see how much time is left on your meter, pay from your phone, or see where open spaces are (and have your phone route you to it). Then Larry and Bombermwc could launch their app, find a parking spot close to their destination at whatever price point they choose, and problem solved.

[kevinpate]

... The average person walks 3 MPH, so that means the longest possible walk from parking to office is 5 minutes.

You've been gone too long Pete. Some of us don't walk. We still mosey. That five minute walk can consume a solid 20 minutes, or more, when ya mosey. <VBG>

[Rover]

If only OKC had some kind of transit system that would allow someone to park for free on the edge of downtown and ride it to within 50' of their final destination.

I also wish someone would create a Downtown OKC App for Android and iPhone. They could include a parking feature that shows the parking garages, rates, and location on map. When the new smart parking meters are installed you could even see how much time is left on your meter, pay from your phone, or see where open spaces are (and have your phone route you to it). Then Larry and Bombermwc could launch their app, find a parking spot close to their destination at whatever price point they choose, and problem solved.

And, we want it all free and no taxes. All facilities should just appear and be free.

[Larry OKC]

Larry. You are incredibly pessimistic, and you EMBRACE that. It's terrifying. ;]

More of a realist, but ok, if you want to label me that. LOL

[BDP]

OK, guys, you inspired me. I checked online and Sweets and Eats is serving chicken pot pie today, so I decided to "mosey" on downtown with my trusty iPhone stopwatch, clock some walk times and have me some pie. Here's what happened: (I walked as I normally do, could be slower for some and faster for others. However, I did obey every crossing sign, not just the light, but the actual sign that tells me when to cross. Sandridge derailed me with some construction and I took detours to the front doors of locations where applicable, causing a couple of unneeded crossings.)

Times are MM:SS (if you question the accuracy of the time piece used, please feel free to email Steve Jobs (steve.jobs@apple.com). Supposedly, he answers every one.)

00:00 START: Santa Fe Parking Garage (choice south end spot on level 2)
02:56 Current Devon front door (furture Continental Resources Building)
05:19 Sweets and Eats (Good pot pie, bad green beans)
07:41 Leadership Square
09:33 Bank of Oklahoma
11:24 Sandridge Hole
14:17 Another Parking Garage
15:42 Skirvin Hotel
19:20 END: At Car Door in Santa Fe Garage

Cost to park: $2

Now that is about 12, 13 blocks with some uneeded street crossings just to hit a destination. Now, looking at that my main conclusion is that I walk freakin fast and/or our CBD blocks are small. Either way, it does show that a mortal human being can cover much of downtown in under 20 minutes and, seriously, some suits with more important things to do than me passed me on my tour.

At my pace you could get from Santa Fe parking garage to north end of autombobile alley in 20 minutes. Just a couple of minutes more and you can get to the Plaza Court in MidTown. You can get to the Civic Center in less than 15 minutes (and that's on the "other" side of downtown).

Basically, just about every point downtown is walkable from any other given point in less than 25 minutes and most of it is doable in less that 10 minutes. Given the amount of parking locations available downtown (http://www.downtownokc.com/supermap/...?categoryid=92), you can pretty much do it from anywhere under 10 minutes if you just know where to park. And for visitors (like me), when you include street parking (which is free at night and on weekends and almost always available in most of downtown) it is hard to ever argue that there is a downtown parking problem without factoring in some sort of, dare I say it, very extreme laziness or skewed perception of the size and needs of our downtown. It just isn't that big and has a ton of parking options for its size. In fact, imo, the accessibility of downtown by foot from any given parking space should be a SELLING point of our downtown, not something used to discourage businesses from locating there...

I'm hungry again...

[mcca7596]

Nice observations BDP!

[city]

I believe it has been discussed that Sandridge intends to add two parking garages on surface lots they own at 4th and 5th and Broadway as part of their campus master plan.

OH that's a GREAT use for those surface lots... parking garages on Broadway. I wouldn't expect Sandridge to do anything different. I detest that company.

[BDP]

Then it shouldn't be a problem convincing everyone in NYC to move here and live/work DT. Go for it! LOL

But think about why it would be impossible to convince a lot of people from NYC to move here. A lot of it simply has to do with the lack of a lifestyle to which they are accustomed to and desire. The existence of cities like NYC and the trending of populations to cities has a lot to do with that, not to mention the reason that so many companies call those cities home. It sure isn't cost or commute times. The pervasive perception of urban cores as inconvenient by much of the Oklahoma City population that has dominated this city's development since the 40s has created a city that for the most part when people visit many say "how could I live there, there's nothing there". In turn, companies go "why would I locate there, no one wants to live there". This is a big issue really.

Now, I don't want everyone in NYC to move here and, honestly, I don't want to live there. But the country and the world is much more than NYC and it wouldn't take but a FEW companies to begin to recognize that Oklahoma City has something to offer to really make an impact. Increasing the city's living and working options only increases that chance by broadening the corporate demographic to which we can market the city. It's very easy to see that an urban lifestyle is the one option we can't truly offer yet. However, I think some companies close to home are beginning to realize there is something going on which can not only enable them to offer a new lifestyle option for their employees, but can also help them more easily recruit workers who may want that choice.

The reality is that Enogex's move will make more of a positive impact on downtown and the city as a whole than the negative impact it will have on the I-44 / I-35 business corridor. Our suburban office market is plentiful and so well establish that probably the only thing that will really happen is that some brokerage firms will be able to get some more fees from new transactions and, if it really is the most desirable office environment in OKC, they can raise the rates on the next tenant.

In any event, I think we can all agree that new businesses are good for OKC and if a strong urban center is what we need to attract new businesses, then we need to be mindful of making sure that area actually offers what a potential urban customer would want. And the best part is that the vast mass of people here that are repelled by urban living would see little change to their daily lives outside of the benefits associated by living in a city with a growing GDP. And if suburban office space, built to suit, with acres of "front door" parking really is what is needed to attract relocation, then we must already be a bigger national business force than I realized. ; )

[Larry OKC]

Great job BDP, you just spent $2 and spent 20 minutes walking around to to places that are of no interest (well maybe except for the SandRidge "hole", got to love that...LOL).

This was something it took me a while to understand. One of the coupon gurus was talking about buying stuff on sale (at the lowest price point in the typical 12 week cycle) and using a coupon. Most coupon users see it as they are saving the same amount when they use the coupon no matter when they buy. But which is the best deal. When you buy Colgate toothpaste at the full regular price ($2.58 minus the $1 coupon) or when they have it on sale for $1 and you put the $1 coupon on it? Which is better, you are still saving the $1 coupon but in one case you are still paying $1.58 and in the other you are getting it for free.

Now if you need to go to those places and can park that relatively cheap (but still more than "free"), then by all means go for it. I am not here to stop you any more than I am going to try to stop someone from overpaying for something at the grocery store. If you don't think adding 400 more people into the mix isn't going to have an effect, again, it isn't my problem. Enjoy! And if you luck out you can get from one side of DT to the other in nothing flat with our new Streetcar (think it was Councilman White that brought that up awhile back when he was debating the cost effectiveness). Sounds like he could have used your observations as support that we don't even need a DT streetcar at all. Which has led to getting the Streetcar to somewhere besides DT.

Am curious, is the $2 for all day or just the 20 minutes you were there?

[mcca7596]

Larry, you could just as easily walk to Bricktown or other "areas of interest" from the Santa Fe garage.

[BrettM2]

Larry, you could just as easily walk to Bricktown or other "areas of interest" from the Santa Fe garage.

I parked there for every Thunder game I attended the last two years. Easy walk to Bricktown to eat. Real easy walk to the arena in bad weather (skywalk to Cox CC and then only the stretch across the street outside).

This is an argument no one will win because it'll come down to preference. I understand that when I go downtown, I may have to pay. If it is worth it, I do it. If not, I figure something else out. There are plenty of places to park on just about any day. Personal preference on paid parking vs. free/frontage parking vs. short walks will make each person view the situation differently.

[soonerliberal]

Uh... street parking is dang cheap and plentiful in the outskirts of downtown OKC. Easy 10 - 15 min walk max. Anyone think of that?

[BDP]

Great job BDP, you just spent $2 and spent 20 minutes walking around to to places that are of no interest

Well, if you work there they are of interest and it wasn't a bad walk. I highlighted those areas because they are major employers and I thought we were talking about downtown vs. suburban offices. Either way, you could walk around all of bricktown and to the Ford Center in those twenty minutes based on the same distances from the Santa Fe parking garage. I certainly would have ZERO interest in parking at Enogex's current location and walking around it for 20 minutes. I'd have to get a LOT more than $2 to do that. : )

If you don't think adding 400 more people into the mix isn't going to have an effect, again, it isn't my problem.

Tronox (Tronix?) used to occupy the same space, so it's really just getting it back up to capacity, not adding.

Now if you need to go to those places and can park that relatively cheap (but still more than "free"), then by all means go for it.

This is another great point. If you park at a suburban office park, it's free, but you only can go to one place. When you park downtown, you may have to pay, but you have access to dozens of places and "major league" entertainment (just had to do it). Which is the better value? I can leave my car in the country for days and no one would notice, but I wouldn't have much to do.

And just for the record, I NEVER pay more than a few cents in a meter to park downtown and the majority of times I don't pay more than free. Free parking is readily available. Do not park in paid surface lots or garages at night or park in bricktown in the day. If you are capable of walking 10 minutes, then the parking fees are really proximity fees that you elect to pay to get closer.

Am curious, is the $2 for all day or just the 20 minutes you were there?

I was there over an hour, because I at lunch. I just clocked the actual walking time. Someone brought up Santa Fe parking garage, so I decided to clock it all from there. Otherwise, I would have parked in one of the dozen or so empty metered spots I walked by and paid less than a dollar for my time there. If I was going to bricktown, I wouldn't have paid anything.

I am beginning to think that you don't really feel there is a parking problem in downtown. For you, it is simply an interest problem. There's nothing there you want to do. So, obviously, paying anything is expensive if it's not what you're interested in. However, many many many people find urban areas much more interesting than suburban areas. This is why millions of people fill hotel rooms and buy plane tickets to visit urban cities purely for entertainment. This is why college grads are so likely to look for employment in urban centers, often time picking the place before picking the job.

Now, does this in any way mean we should burn the suburbs or that they have no longer have a place in the mix of lifestyle options of any city? Of course not. The issue is that it is ALL we have. We are simply trying to expand our marketability and improve our reach. Maybe this is something you are not interested in either, I don't know, but I think many have the perspective that positive economic growth is a good thing and that portfolio diversification is a prudent way to ensure that. Cultivating a viable urban option for the city is a great way to help diversify living options in the city. Since we have so little of it, any degree is a significant increase in that area which helps bring better ROI. And the best part of it is that people currently living in the suburbs with no intention to ever change it can occasionally enjoy benefits of an urban enclave anytime they please without ever changing the size of their yard, the size of their wal-mart parking lots, or the price per square foot of their model home.

Sounds like he could have used your observations as support that we don't even need a DT streetcar at all. Which has led to getting the Streetcar to somewhere besides DT.

Very true. Hopefully, it is just a start. Honestly, I would love for them to take the trolley's we own and reroute them to some of the inner neighborhoods to increase the reach. I think a walker to western western route serving Heitage Hills/Paseo/Lower Western route would be great and we already own the vehicles. It would be an option for visitors to venture outside of downtown to some of our great inner neighborhoods and would give those residents a way to connect to the streetcar. It could be sort of a destination oriented route that makes infrequent stops at strtegic points with consideration to the number of things walkable from that location. Maybe start at Plaza Court with stops at Overholser/Paseo/and 47th and Western. I would be willing to bet it would get better use than the Meridian trolley did and help make the street car more successful.

Uh... street parking is dang cheap and plentiful in the outskirts of downtown OKC. Easy 10 - 15 min walk max. Anyone think of that?

Use it all the time.

[bluedogok]

That $5+ charge per day is my #1 complaint for any downtown parking. For a good salary employee, it's not a big deal to spend an extra $100 a month if that's where the job is. But for an entry level worker, parking can consist of almost a 1/10 of their take home pay folks. You're talking about the bread and butter of any medium and large size company. It's a HUGE burdon for those people. So, for example, you take the janitor for Enogex. You're now telling that person that they can expect to have a pay cut of $1200 a year just to be able to park at their job compared to free parking before. For those of us with comfortable salaries, we don't really think about it because it's not a big problem for us. But for some people, that is a HUUUUUGE deal.

Unless you take the approach of working out a deal where your employees park for free somewhere and your company absorbs the cost, then you're shafting your employee.

And just for the record, i don't mind walking a few blocks. Remember I'm the one that complains about people driving their car from one store to the next in a strip mall. I walk the 1/2 mile from one end to the other...even with a stroller with 2 kids in it.

If you move downtown, yes there is more of a delay in getting to your desk...that's part of the world of being in an urban jungle. You just have to personally add more time to your commute to make it happen.

My #2 gripe is the availability of spaces. We see crap thrown out from the city about how many spaces there are...blah blah. If we didn't need more spaces, then why did we have a couple of new massive parking garages that were built at Galleria? Did we not need a garage at the county courthouse either. We've added spaces after years of people complaining and the parking authority ignoring it because it would mean more spaces...ie more supply...so they can't justify the cost as much. It's a lame arguement and we just flat don't have enough parking. And a lot of it is in the WRONG place. I don't often see Santa Fe full. Why is that? Because people don't want to park there and then walk halfway across downtown either. That can add another 20 minutes to the commute. There's a difference in adding a few minutes to get a couple blocks and the city saying, "hey we have 1000 spaces 1/4 mile away, just use that". Would you like it if the city put a parking lot in your neighborhood and told everyone to use it rather than their own driveway? I don't think so.

And just by saying there isn't a problem, doesn't make the problem go away. That's the city's role in this fun. Ignore it.

The two times that I have worked in downtown my company either took care of my parking at the Santa Fe garage (TAP when they were at CityPlace,) or I received $45 a month to take care of parking (Dallas) and I could use it any way that I wanted, I found a garage on the other side of Plazas of the Americas that was $55 a month (91-93) and parked there. Friends who work in Downtown Austin also seem to have similar arrangements.

[Just the facts]

After reading the complaints from Larry and others I have concluded the following. Downtown OKC does not have a parking problem; Larry and Bombermwc have a parking problem. I base this conclusion on the fact that the problem follows them where ever THEY go which means the problem is theirs. If it was a downtown problem, then it would be a problem for everyone.

[Rover]

Yes, there are cheap people. And there are lazy people. When cheap people are lazy then parking is a problem. But I don't think that is the class of people downtown will appeal to.

[dankrutka]

I went to 30 Thunder games this year and had no problem parking for free for every single one of them. The only people that should complain about parking should have a disability. Otherwise, you are just lazy and should just stay away from cities at all times.

LarryOKC would complain if he got to design the entire city himself. That's all he does is complain and whine so his opinion is pretty irrelevent at this point...