Convention Center

[bradh]

^

Yes, and if you can step off the train at Santa Fe Station and either hop on the streetcar or merely walk a couple of blocks to the huge majority of office buildings, hotels and reastaurants downtown, that will be another huge inducement.

Both Broadway Extension and I-35 south are getting somewhat congested so running service from downtown Edmond and Norman is starting to make sense.


And I mentioned this before... Since downtown parking is so constrained and starting to get expensive, employers could easily work with COTPA and provide incentives to take mass transit.

When I worked in downtown L.A. almost all companies would pay for your train tickets, even if you didn't get paid parking as a perk of your job.

When I worked in downtown Houston, my employer (El Paso) would not pay for your parking, but would pay for your bus ticket (rode the commuter bus in from Katy).

Not to get sidetracked even more, but a commuter rail that was like Metra in Chicago would be awesome.

[Teo9969]

To sort of frame this discussion on topic, are we seriously concerned about a spike in parking needs for conventions? I would think only between 5% and 20% of the attendance number translates into parked cars. So it would take a fairly large convention to be super taxing on the structure, and by the time the convention center is completed, things will be markedly different downtown (or at least on the precipice of such things).

[Urban Pioneer]

Maybe my earlier point several pages back was too esoteric. Back to the Convention Center specifically. It is probably the most significant publicly subsidized mechanism to bring visitors to our city.

I want them to have the best experience that any visitor can have in our fair city. My opinion is that The Underground is a bad idea for connecting to the CC unless it is for emergency weather conditions or for personelle/service folks. Visitors need a sidewalk level experience and experience true urban vibrancy.

Conversely, the Underground may already affect the level of pedestrian activity and that experience. And regarding visitors, every single minute is valuable. We will be paying dearly for those minutes. Lets make sure that their focus is used wisely.

I advocate for a weather protected, if not indoor, streetcar stop at the Convention Center. One with extra capacity. Streetcars are air conditioned and heated. They should suffice for meaningful connectivity to the Convention Center in lieu of catastrophic weather. Lets keep the Underground access to a minimum and encourage it's use responsibly.

[David]

I thought we had a thread on the underground. I couldn't find it. :/

Check your post, the board's auto-linking function found it for you.

[soonerguru]

While we don't have the most vibrant street life in the CBD, everyone always talks about how awesome Tulsa's downtown is and I've been surprised that it has virtually zero street life. During the week I generally see a pretty decent amount of people on the streets in the OKC CBD, I've been in Tulsa at 5 pm and even when people should be getting off work and walking to their cars, it's a complete ghost town. I think that the more housing we add close to the CBD and AA, the more street life there will be, which will also make retail more viable.


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Tulsa's CBD is in worse shape than ours for street life. It is dead. They have many good things going for their downtown overall, though.

[BoulderSooner]

I just think it's a mistake to continue to expand it. I would prefer it be closed permanently, but I know that won't happen.

Pete how do they do it in virtually every other city in America? They walk outside. In Denver, a lot of people pack a light rain jacket with their work bag. And if it is raining cats and dogs, they go and hide inside of a store for a moment until it clears.

I just don't get our obsession with air condition comfort (or even dependence) with not being able to tolerate weather that is experienced in every other part of the globe.

You can't compare Okc to every city. But with western cities we have far less parking.

Having worked in the Denver CBD I drove in from boulder and depending on the weather parked between 4-6 blocks. Or 1 block. Because the cost was 10 a day 4-6 blocks or 25 for 1 block.

Just about everyone I worked with (that was not high up enough to have access to the company garage) did the same. What daily parking option do we have in the CBD. None This idea that in every city everyone is fine with walking blocks and blocks to work in bad weather simply is not true

[BoulderSooner]

Why is the assumption always that we will maintain a huge parking problem when the paradigm is in the middle of a massive shift where people who work downtown also live downtown. This is a relatively new phenomenon for OKC, and is only going to continue to drastically change. If just 150 people with positions downtown move downtown in the next year and a half, that helps alleviate some of the parking issues.

All of these large scaled apartments come with parking garages to help alleviate the problem. I don't know the numbers, but if right now, for example, we need 1.65 parking spots for every downtown employee, as more housing is built, we'll likely shift to only needing something like 1.25 spots for every employee.

I'm not saying that we don't need to expand parking, but we will be making a massive mistake if we project our future needs through the lens of where we are today.

The majority or my friends that live down town (deep deuce midtown arts ect). And work downtown still drive to work the majority of the time

[BoulderSooner]

What street life?

There is plenty drive down park between 9-5 any week day

[hoya]

We clearly need a combination of all of the above.

If companies are actively looking to leave downtown because of our parking situation, then we need more. Other companies looking to move downtown will find it easier if there are more parking garages and more spaces. So let's build them. Yes, it's the conventional answer, but a lot of companies are run by people who follow such conventional wisdom.

At the same time, commuter rail is absolutely the long-term answer. It may take 10+ years to get this moving, so garages will have to suffice in the interim. But is we expect the type of growth downtown that I hope we expect, then we can make good use of both. Building 3 or 4 more garages won't completely eliminate the need for rail. We'll fill those garages up, and still need more space. We will also be able to connect downtown to the airport, meaning that convention attendees and other visitors will be able to get downtown without needing to take up a parking space.

Finally we'll get lots more housing downtown. With the streetcar, that will enable people who are a 15 minute walk (living in Deep Deuce or Midtown) who are kinda lazy and would rather drive, to leave their car at home.

[PhiAlpha]

Tulsa's CBD is in worse shape than ours for street life. It is dead. They have many good things going for their downtown overall, though.

True, unfortunately there are several things working against their downtown as well. A ton of surface parking and one way streets for starters, but i would kill for their abundance of cool architecture.


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[shawnw]

The majority or my friends that live down town (deep deuce midtown arts ect). And work downtown still drive to work the majority of the time

I learned about this (people who lived downtown but still drove to their garage) recently and was completely astounded.

[shawnw]

There is plenty drive down park between 9-5 any week day

Yeah, I've only lived downtown since July, so it may just recently be getting better or something , but if I go for a walk in the CBD at lunch time or closing time, it seems like a good amount of foot traffic (conversely I've also gone for a walk in the Underground at both lunchtime and at closing time, and the traffic down there is very sparse). It's no New York, or Seattle, etc, but for us it seems okay (compared to what I heard about before I experienced it).

[soonerguru]

I learned about this (people who lived downtown but still drove to their garage) recently and was completely astounded.

I worked and lived downtown for many years. I would usually drive. Why? Because I had to leave the office to attend meetings frequently throughout the day. Obviously, when the meeting was downtown, it was a bonus. If there were days I absolutely knew I wouldn't be leaving the office, I would walk.

[shawnw]

I think your case is understandable (if I worked downtown, and had a dr appt or something, I'd probably drive that day), but I'm certain there are others that simply don't want to walk.

[Urbanized]

I worked and lived downtown for many years. I would usually drive. Why? Because I had to leave the office to attend meetings frequently throughout the day. Obviously, when the meeting was downtown, it was a bonus. If there were days I absolutely knew I wouldn't be leaving the office, I would walk.

This is my experience as well. My situation is also that I may have to without notice race to the zoo, and several times a week make unplanned runs to places like hardware stores, Office Depot, etc.. It is a condition of running a small business and wearing every hat imaginable. I love walking to work but have only done it a few times because of these issues. I do ride a bike occasionally, and VERY often ride either a scooter or a motorcycle, since I can get anywhere in town - especially on the MC - or can quickly get home to grab my car.

Regarding the CC, while I agree that a streetcar stop is needed, once again I feel the need to point out that the streetcar is impractical (actually useless) for moving thousands at one time. It will be perfect for smaller meetings, and during major events will be helpful for moving a small percentage of attendees.

But we're talking what, 150-160 per train? That will only be enough capacity to piss off the thousands who won't fit on board when a large group exits at once, underscoring the need for the CC to be thoughtfully located in the best possible spot for walking to/from.

[Just the facts]

This is why there are services like TimeCar.

[Urbanized]

So now we have satisfied demand for another 20 of the 5000 exiting the building. Now what?

[Just the facts]

No, I am just saying that if people who can walk but choose to drive because they MIGHT have to go somewhere during the day - can just use TimeCar. Or here is a crazy idea - leave 15 minutes earlier and walk home and get your car. Not saying this works for everyone in ever occasion but somehow people around the world do it every day by the millions. An even crazier idea might be to find a local service provider for whatever it is people are leaving downtown for.

OKC is the geographic oddity of the known Universe - nothing that works anywhere else in the world can work there. No matter what the subject is, there is always something unique about OKC that just won't allow 10,000 years of human urban development to work there. The wheel must be reinvented in OKC every time.

[Urbanized]

Sorry, I thought you were suggesting it as a solution for convention attendees headed to lunch.

Yeah, I have considered TimeCar and Uber in my own circumstances. The reason not having a vehicle available is specifically tough when working in downtown OKC and leaving often is that virtually none of the things you are leaving the office for are available within walking distance. That IS a special circumstance here vs. more established urban environments.

For what it's worth, I walk all over downtown once I am at the office. I walk to the CVB for lunch, for meetings, for banking, for haircuts. I walk from Bricktown to and from Thunder games, and to and from home for Thunder games. I use Uber multiple times each week. I keep a bicycle in my office and sometimes ride that.

I'm in no way averse to walking; I'm averse to having an emergency and being 25 minutes away from my car in a city that demands that you get to 98% of its places by auto.

[hoya]

That'll change as time passes and we get more stuff downtown. I'm not saying it will ever go away completely, but it will decrease the average number of trips needed by the average downtown resident. I am sure there are people in Paris and NYC that drive to work everyday because they need access to their car at a moment's notice. It's just it isn't as high a percentage as downtown OKC workers. I'd say 95% of the people who work downtown drive every day. If we could reduce it to 80% we'd be doing great.

More housing equals more people. More people equals more services. A streetcar equals greater mobility without a car. We are getting all the pieces of the puzzle, one by one. But right now those pieces are scattered about, not connected with each other yet. Five years from now things will look a lot different.

[Just the facts]

Sorry, I thought you were suggesting it as a solution for convention attendees headed to lunch.

Yeah, I have considered TimeCar and Uber in my own circumstances. The reason not having a vehicle available is specifically tough when working in downtown OKC and leaving often is that virtually none of the things you are leaving the office for are available within walking distance. That IS a special circumstance here vs. more established urban environments.

For what it's worth, I walk all over downtown once I am at the office. I walk to the CVB for lunch, for meetings, for banking, for haircuts. I walk from Bricktown to and from Thunder games, and to and from home for Thunder games. I use Uber multiple times each week. I keep a bicycle in my office and sometimes ride that.

I'm in no way averse to walking; I'm averse to having an emergency and being 25 minutes away from my car in a city that demands that you get to 98% of its places by auto.

No worries - and obviously TimeCar is not a solution for a convention crowd. How many conventions a year do you think OKC will have that has 5,000 out-of-town daily attendees? Where do 18,000 Thunder fans park?

[Plutonic Panda]

Check your post, the board's auto-linking function found it for you.

omg...... I literally spent about 30 minutes trying to find that and I had no idea. Wow, I feel stupid.....

[David]

omg...... I literally spent about 30 minutes trying to find that and I had no idea. Wow, I feel stupid.....

Heh, I didn't even notice it myself until after I found the thread manually and replied with a link to it, and then noticed the link was already in your post and stealth edited my reply.

[AP]

The majority or my friends that live down town (deep deuce midtown arts ect). And work downtown still drive to work the majority of the time

Wow. That's honestly kind of embarrassing.

My roommate walks to work every day, and I know it's one of the things he enjoys most about living downtown.

[Pete]

omg...... I literally spent about 30 minutes trying to find that and I had no idea. Wow, I feel stupid.....

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