Originally Posted by josh
Gotcha! Just kind of strange to me, to see someone call someone else out, for something they also did! Sarcasm is hard to judge on here :/
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
Gotcha! Just kind of strange to me, to see someone call someone else out, for something they also did! Sarcasm is hard to judge on here :/
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
I wasn't sticking up for him, the message was, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Josh's sarcasm was lost in translation. Its all good!
Banned
Re: Convention Center
Don't throw stones regardless of housing situation.
Re: Convention Center
Our image is our future!
“We believe the convention center plays a vital role in the development of the visitor industry and in the development of downtown,” said David Thompson, chamber chairman. “This study tells us clearly that our current center is not large enough, nor does it boast the amenities we need to be competitive. It is time for us to make an investment in this industry or recognize that we are slowly going out of business as far as conventions are concerned.”
“There is an element out there who questions should we really try to do something more?” Williams said. “Part of that is cultural — are we good enough, big enough, savvy enough to step out there on the edge? The best consultants in the U.S. say ‘You sure are. You have the product. When you did MAPS, you built a new city and created a new experience, a unique product.’ But it’s not something you can leave alone, you have to improve it.”
John Kaatz, author of the study released Tuesday, reported the Cox Center’s exhibit space also is the smallest offered among more than a dozen competing cities including Tulsa, Fort Worth, Texas, and Austin. He said planners interviewed who had been to the city gave it a very favorable rating, but 41 percent of them said they will need more space for future meetings.
Flashback: Development of Conference Hotel Needed With New Convention Center | News OK
Banned
Re: Convention Center
RE: Grammar, well it is not worthy of my time....spell check, not so much either. But those of you that are "still in school / just got out of HS / in college", will know that I have been out for some time and my time is more valuable than that.
Now, back to the topic at hand. The Convention Center. This is a must for OKC. Our city is not identifiable as a convention city and it needs to be. This is why the CC Must Make an impact in Design & Scale and not mediocre in any way.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
That's right Panda, my Vision for OKC is one of unlimited success and being better than we are today.
What is your vision of OKC? ...more of the same? ...ugly metal buildings? .....luck warm mediocrity? ...fly-over city? ....anything?
Banned
Re: Convention Center
There's nothing wrong with being a city booster and having unabashed civic pride but do all that in a realm of realty. The more rational you are, the more sane you will come off.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
In a professional environment, grammar is always important. Even on a message board, if you intend for the reader to be convinced by the power of your arguments, you want to appear intelligent and well-educated. Good grammar doesn't really take any longer to type than bad grammar. If your arguments are unconvincing because your posts are full of spelling errors, then in fact you have wasted your "valuable" time.
I will agree with you that we don't have any sort of impressive convention center. We need one. It's the front door to many businesses from out of state.Now, back to the topic at hand. The Convention Center. This is a must for OKC. Our city is not identifiable as a convention city and it needs to be. This is why the CC Must Make an impact in Design & Scale and not mediocre in any way.
OKC spent many decades following a "philosophy of cheap". If possible, spend no money. As a result we had a very low cost of living, but we also had nothing fun to do. Right now my goal for the city is for us to judiciously use our resources to build a fun and healthy city. That doesn't mean spending a billion dollars to create a top of the line convention center (which is what you'd have to spend to get the best). But we do need a new one, and I'm very comfortable with the city spending $250 million to build it.
My vision for OKC is that over the next 20 years, we're going to build affordable amenities that the city can really use. The MAPS projects have provided excellent value for their cost. None of the things we've built have been the "nicest in the world", but they're all great improvements to OKC. Things I want? I want a light rail system that connects Edmond to Norman, and Midwest City to Will Rogers. I want a streetcar system downtown that is about 5 times bigger than our current plan. I want a large stadium for Major League Soccer that can (just in case) be upgraded for some other sport that might be played on a big green rectangular field. I want river improvements that stretch farther to the east. I want a boardwalk that follows the north side of the river for a mile or two with fun things to do, and that big Ferris Wheel. I want to fill in all the gaps downtown, with thriving businesses and a walkable environment, all the way from the Capitol building to the shore of the river, across into Capitol Hill, over to the Farmer's Market and down into Stockyard City.
We aren't going to turn into Manhattan. But we can be a much better version of Oklahoma City.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
Josh, Thanks for the coaching tips. I'm not running for office, so I'm not that concerned with losing a few opinions on this forum. I'm for pushing the envelope of the standard "typical way doing business" and moving OKC off high center for economic development.
...now, what's a Texan on here for?
Banned
Re: Convention Center
Aside from the occasional dialogue with other posters on this forum, I maintain a San Antonio-centric thread on the forum.
http://www.okctalk.com/other-communi...p-heart-3.html
Guest
Re: Convention Center
You're not losing a few opinions. You basically have never had anyone supporting any of your opinions from the day you started posting. Post away though.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
I represent that silent majority that doesn't post ( too busy w/ normal lives ) that are tired of things going down the same path, and ending up with the Okie standard.
The group that is tired of our ODOT Engineering ( Cloverleafs ) & ( Piling Dirt ) instead of better designed layouts, the On-Off ramps we have that have only 200ft to manage your families life at 65 mph. / The Exit ramps off major interstates when traveling at 70 mph and hit the corner at 20 mph. ???? / The goup that is tired of hearing "we caint afford it" or "we ben do'n it for 50 years". / The group that says "does every building have to have metal siding on it"? / The group that is tired of having to ask "why don't we have that too"...why do I have to buy it in Texas?" ... you know, that group.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
....and the group that wants the Convention Center to be an Iconic Facility that makes us so proud, we want all our out-of-towners to use it on their next convention.
Re: Convention Center
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
If this does come to a vote, how is the Chamber and the city going to sell the CC to voters? Are we going to get the high-flown rhetoric or should they sell it as a city gathering place? Personally, I would show videos of the Cox in all its glory and remind people that without a new CC we'll be using it for the next 20+ years. We know Ed is going to use all the Sanders conclusions (I'm not going to call it data until I see some).The city will either have to have good data to counter it or go a completely different direction and leave Ed with an irrelevant argument.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
Actually I advocated for the Olympics on this board about it possibly coming to Tulsa and I quickly found out the reality of the situation.
It just seems you sometimes start on an idea and you won't let go no matter how much debt it puts you, no matter if the market would support it or not, no matter if it is truly in the better interest of the city, you just want it done now.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
Ok, now I couldn't agree more with you on this. Now, we are on the same page with these issues.
BTW, the metal siding issue is quickly changing.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
I like OKVision4U's enthusiasm. If everyone in OKC shared it, developers wouldn't be able to get by with half the things they get by with in this town. However, enthusiasm also need to go together with realism. The Summer Olympics isn't happening in OKC in our lifetime, but a very attractive Tier 2 convention center tied to a four-diamond hotel is a very real possibility if politics doesn't screw it up.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
Yes, these things bother / affect ALL of us.
Banned
Re: Convention Center
Thank you. We may never reach that goal of the Summer Olymics in OKC in my lifetime, but I would like to have us on that path where we can have that as an option and OKC would be in a great position even to considered a candidate.
That should be our goal.
Re: Convention Center
The problem is that Sanders shows tons of data. The economic calculus doesn't make a good case for a $250 convention center in OKC. Sorry.
I think if you build not just an argument but also a facility around the premise of a great gathering space, you've done the best you can. This CC isn't doomed yet but snatching victory from the jaws of defeat will require more adept leadership and rethinking the early 2000s model convention complex. What will be successful in 2020!??
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
Of course he shows tons of data. But, the ONLY thing he's evaluating is profit relative to cost in a very general sense. He doesn't look at age of convention centers, he doesn't look at how they were financed, he doesn't ever give specific data on associated income, he never discusses intangible benefits, he only looks at convention centers relative to national conventions and he downplays any local or regional uses. His assumption from the start is that no one needs a new convention center. I've shown that he grossly exaggerates hotel data and BDP showed an instance of sloppy evaluation in Las Vegas. My mother-in-law once told me, "Don't believe the people who always say never or always." Her corollary was "Never say never, never say always". I think this is one of the only wise things she ever said, but I think it applies to both Sanders and the convention center consultants.
As I said in the other thread, the danger is that by promoting something by exaggeration, people move 180 degrees away. Like the Chamber people who swallow the CC data because it tells them what they want to believe, those people who think spending money on city projects is inherently evil or wasteful are just as happy to swallow Sanders data without examining it.
Re: Convention Center
There are other cities building convention centers that don't have near as much going on as OKC. Voters approved this as a part of the MAPS III initiative. You mean to tell me that Oklahoma City is now contemplating to become a 'CAN'T DO' city? ''
This will be a travesty of progress if we allow someone like Dr. Ed 'Slick' Shadid to use the convention center or any voter approved MAPS project as a 'pawn' to prompt up his platform for mayor.
Oklahoma City has progressed as a result of our previous MAPS' referendums. Cities leaders have made good on what was promised to the voters who approved these projects.
The 'pay as you go' or 'build as you collect' the sales taxes has made OKC the envy of many American cities.
Hampton Roads, VA: Unity In Hampton Roads Is Just A Matter Of Time, Development Expert Believes - Daily Press
Watch as these cities (Albuquerque, NM, Richmond, VA, Wichita, KS, Lexington & Louisville, Kentucky) attempt to duplicate some form of OKC's success.
"The original Metropolitan Area Projects has become the talk of the country, and to date, more than 24 civic delegations have traveled to Oklahoma City to determine how this success story can be replicated in their hometowns."--Cities come to Oklahoma City learn from MAPS experience | News OK
"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
Let's not pretend that if we vote to roll back MAPS we will get a cheaper convention center or a Cox remodel. The truth is we will get nothing. We will have the Cox Center as our convention center and city gathering center indefinitely. Because the people who don't want a new convention center for $250 million by and large don't want one for $150 million, or don't want to spend $150 to renovate the Cox Center. Nor would the city be able to roll out a MAPS 4 immediately with a convention center included.
The other ghastly alternative would be if they found a legal way to build it anyway, gutting other MAPS projects. MAPS would then basically go down in flames and publicly funded city improvements would stop dead. No money for transit. No money for anything we want outside of the basics.
Just food for thought.
Participating Member
Re: Convention Center
I'm posting some pictures of convention centers from cities that we would consider beneath us (Omaha, Des Moines), cities that are fairly arguable as peer cities (albuquerque, memphis, salt lake city) and cities that are not out of the reach of aspiration (portland, sacramento) just for comparison.
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