Convention Center

[Just the facts]

I see the San Antonio Chamber, or where ever those numbers came from, are as good at double counting as the OKC Chamber is because those 6 industries total up to $133 billion, but the entire San Antonio-New Braunfels metro area only had a $82 billion GDP in 2010. A $51 billion increase in 1 year is pretty darn good - and not likely.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...metro0211b.pdf

Don't take this as knock on you Josh, I am just pointing out how local Chambers make stuff up (cough cough OKC Convention Center projections cough cough).

[josh]

I see the San Antonio Chamber, or where ever those numbers came from, are as good at double counting as the OKC Chamber is because those 6 industries total up to $133 billion, but the entire San Antonio-New Braunfels metro area only had a $82 billion GDP in 2010. A $51 billion increase in 1 year is pretty darn good - and not likely.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...metro0211b.pdf

Don't take this as knock on you Josh, I am just pointing out how local Chambers make stuff up (cough cough OKC Convention Center projections cough cough).

I believe you are going about calculating the GDP incorrectly. Economic impact /= GDP. It's an entirely different formula.

Economic impact studies are done every few years (atleast in San Antonio's case) and usually by different agencies or organizations. The military economic impact study was actually done by the military and department of defense.

Also , the San Antonio GDP was $91 billion in 2012.

[Just the facts]

How can the sum of industry specific economic impact be greater than the sum of all economic activity? Answer, the economic impacts are done by using assumptions and multipliers that aren't founded in reality. The Chambers own study they just released is proof of that. If you go to the Convention Center and spend $20 instead of going to the movies in Bricktown and spending the same $20 the Chamber says the Convention Center generated $20 of economic activity which is I horse-****. It even get more ludicrous because they then use a multiplier to show how that $20 flows through the local economy and then contributes all of that activity to the convention center also - which is horse-****^2. At the same time every industry in a given area is make the exact same claim. The Zoo does it, Bricktown does it, the American Indian Cultural Center does it, the Cowboy Hall of Fames does it, the Airport does it.... but when you add them all up it is more than the total economic activity taking place. Total smoke and mirrors operation.

Now having said that, I am not opposed to a new convention center and really not that opposed to the location any more so long as they can make it with good urbanism on all 4 sides. I just wish they would stop insulting us with the ridiculous revenue projection that everyone knows isn't going to happen. If I tried to use Chamber math at work I would be laughed at - and then fired.

[OKVision4U]

It doesn't drive the bus or even shotgun the bus.



You yourself should do a little research. Let's start with this, you're incredibly wrong. I'll blame it on ignorance but telling people to go research something means giving you the benefit of the doubt with ignorance may be pushing it. Additional to this all is the way you write. Capitalizing words that don't need it. I can either take it you're not all there or you're very young or a combination.

Bottom line, these are the facts:

The tourism/hospitality industry has an economic impact of $12 billion, as of 2012.

Let's compare this with other industries in San Antonio.

• The healthcare industry has an economic impact of $30 billion, as of 2011.
• The military has an economic impact of $28 billion, as of 2011.
• The financial industry has an economic impact of $27 billion, as of 2011.
• The manufacturing industry has an economic impact of $23 billion, as of 2011.
• The IT industry has an economic impact of $13 billion as of 2012.

That's five industries with larger impacts on the San Antonio economy than tourism/hospitality.

Their economy today is thriving based on the Tourism they have embraced & capitalized on in the lst 15 years. SA was a stagnant city in the early 90's and Tourism / Hospitality / Conventions is what brought it out of a "sinking" economy.

[OKVision4U]

That may be what you meant, but it isn't what you said. Words are important; so are grammar, sentence structure, and coherence in laying out an argument.

...This is not an argument, this is the history of San Antonio and how they are thriving.

[josh]

Their economy today is thriving based on the Tourism they have embraced & capitalized on in the lst 15 years. SA was a stagnant city in the early 90's and Tourism / Hospitality / Conventions is what brought it out of a "sinking" economy.

What in the ever loving heck are you talking about?

Last 15 years? Wut!?

Early 90's stagnant? Wut!?

In the early 90's the health care industry was taking off. SBC (now AT&T) relocated to San Antonio from St. Louis.

The economy wasn't stagnant in the early 90's.

I can now see why different posters were telling me to put you on ignore.

[OKVision4U]

This whole debate could have been totally avoided if the Chamber had been honest in the first place and just called it a quality of life project. How could anyone argue with that because you are right, the current COX is very dated and the land could be freed up for more development that would benefit the community, especially with a regional rail hub across the street.

Also, good point about Shadid playing up the $200 million price because anything that comes in less than that will be seen as a plus. Of course Shadid could plan on pulling a HH type deal and say that without him it would have cost $200 million.

JFT, I agree. ....we need a new Convention Center that adds excitement to our guests. Unless you are Orlando or Miami, the convention center at best may break even....but we need it any way.

[josh]

Their economy today is thriving based on the Tourism they have embraced & capitalized on in the lst 15 years. SA was a stagnant city in the early 90's and Tourism / Hospitality / Conventions is what brought it out of a "sinking" economy.

Btw, San Antonio's economy is thriving today because of the initiatives put in place and the steps taken in the 80s and 90s regarding the healthcare industry and the IT industry, which includes cyber security. San Antonio, during the 80s, was TOO dependent on tourism.

Being dependent on tourism is a bad thing. Tourism provides low paying jobs.

Today, our current Mayor is putting in place the incentives and initiatives and is growing a green technology and energy industry for the city.

[josh]

JFT, I agree. ....we need a new Convention Center that adds excitement to our guests. Unless you are Orlando or Miami, the convention center at best may break even....but we need it any way.

Miami? Wut?

Did you mean Las Vegas?

[OKVision4U]

Btw, San Antonio's economy is thriving today because of the initiatives put in place and the steps taken in the 80s and 90s regarding the healthcare industry and the IT industry, which includes cyber security. San Antonio, during the 80s, was TOO dependent on tourism.

Being dependable on tourism is a bad thing. Tourism provides low paying jobs.

Today, our current Mayor is putting in place the incentives and initiatives and is growing a green technology and energy industry for the city.

...are you just looking at a number and making an assumption? ...San Antonio is the model & inspiration (OKC) used for the revitalization of Bricktown & MAPS.

[josh]

...are you just looking at a number and making an assumption? ...San Antonio is the model & inspiration (OKC) used for the revitalization of Bricktown & MAPS.

Huh? That's great, but what exactly did I say that wasn't true?

If you don't have other industries to rely on or to build up your city and just depend on tourism and hospitality, then you become Reno, Nevada. Las Vegas can somewhat et away with it because it's the exception to the rule. However, outside of the strip and outside the gated communities, Las Vegas is a pretty depressed place.

Hospitality provides jobs, but low paying jobs. It doesn't build a middle class.

[OKVision4U]

Miami? Wut?

Did you mean Las Vegas?

Josh, I will let you in on a little secret, if I typed Las Vegas, I would have meant Vegas. I chose (2) NON-Gaming destination cities.... Orlando / Miami that have thriving conventin attendance.

Have you ever been to these locations? (for a convention, not to ride the "It's A Small World After All" attraction at WD Orlando).

[josh]

Josh, I will let you in on a little secret, if I typed Las Vegas, I would have meant Vegas. I chose (2) NON-Gaming destination cities.... Orlando / Miami that have thriving conventin attendance.

Have you ever been to these locations? (for a convention, not to ride the "It's A Small World After All" attraction at WD Orlando).

I've never been Orlando or Miami for a convention, but I doubt you have either. However, I have been to Miami.

But why are you using Miami and Orlando? They have major draws that bring people to their cities irregardless of a convention center. Orlando with the theme parks (Disney, Universal, Nickelodeon, Sea World, etc). Miami with the beach, cruise ships, south beach, night life, etc. Those things, aside from being national draws, are also draws for convention goers.

What exactly would bring in people to Oklahoma
city on a national level?

[OKVision4U]

I've never been Orlando or Miami for a convention, but I doubt you have either. However, I have been to Miami.

But why are you using Miami and Orlando? They have major draws that bring people to their cities irregardless of a convention center. Orlando with the theme parks (Disney, Universal, Nickelodeon, Sea World, etc). Miami with the beach, cruise ships, south beach, night life, etc. Those things, aside from being national draws, are also draws for convention goers.

What exactly would bring in people to Oklahoma
city on a national level?

Josh, I'm glad you asked.... For Oklahoma City to be a "destination" point, we must have something that is (Unique to us and Marketable) to others.

Yes, again, you would be wrong.... I have been to the Miami South Beach Convention (2) times and Orlando (+6) and many other Chi / LV / LA / SF / SD/ ATL / San Antonio ( many times ) / Houston / Dallas / NYC .... and a few others in between. In so many ways, this may be how a Corporation visits a city, endulges in the culture and may even decide to expand an office / operations there. That is a by-product of Tourism, this is how San Antonio built their economy.

[josh]

Josh, I'm glad you asked.... For Oklahoma City to be a "destination" point, we must have something that is (Unique to us and Marketable) to others.

Yes, again, you would be wrong.... I have been to the Miami South Beach Convention (2) times and Orlando (+6) and many other Chi / LV / LA / SF / SD/ ATL / San Antonio ( many times ) / Houston / Dallas / NYC .... and a few others in between. In so many ways, this may be how a Corporation visits a city, endulges in the culture and may even decide to expand an office / operations there. That is a by-product of Tourism, this is how San Antonio built their economy.

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

[OKVision4U]

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

I stated the how.... THey are "Introduced" to a city, their culture by visiting during a convention.

[warreng88]

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

You are not going to win this argument. OKVision is never wrong and will never admit that he is wrong. It is just easier to put him on ignore.

[josh]

I stated the how.... THey are "Introduced" to a city, their culture by visiting during a convention.

That doesn't mean anything. No ceo or board is going to expand into a city because they liked the city while on a convention. What delusional world do you occupy space in?

I apologize to the rest of the board for being baited into this ridiculous argument. I'm obviously dealing with a "charcter" reminesent to a troll.

[OKVision4U]

That doesn't mean anything. No ceo or board is going to expand into a city because they liked the city while on a convention. What delusional world do you occupy space in?

I apologize to the rest of the board for being baited into this ridiculous argument. I'm obviously dealing with a "charcter" reminesent to a troll.

Your right, large corporate is foreign to me. ....clueless on that one. I can't help those that have their eyes closed. ...or are "anchored into the OKIE small mind" mentality. This is the WHY we are Passed Over and at times I don't blame them.

Until we shake this attitude, our statement to others will be "WE CANT". ( I'm speaking to all the visitors that look at this forum but do not post ). This is our challenge.

I think someone referred to our convention center as "Our LIving Room" to out of town guests. Josh, you may not understand the value of our Image to others, but it is huge. This is the time we build something we will be proud of, ...or not build it at all and save the money.

[josh]

Your right, large corporate is foreign to me. ....clueless on that one. I can't help those that have their eyes closed. ...or are "anchored into the OKIE small mind" mentality. This is the WHY we are Passed Over and at times I don't blame them.

Until we shake this attitude, our statement to others will be "WE CANT". ( I'm speaking to all the visitors that look at this forum but do not post ). This is our challenge.

I think someone referred to our convention center as "Our LIving Room" to out of town guests. Josh, you may not understand the value of our Image to others, but it is huge. This is the time we build something we will be proud of, ...or not build it at all and save the money.

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

[warreng88]

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

Seriously, put him on ignore. If we all do that, he will eventually go away.

[OkieNate]

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Besides that, Thanks for your outside input!

[josh]

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Just to clarify why I used "Wut".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wut

3. A remark most commonly used after a party has told a ridiculous/unbelievable story or comment. after a pause the listener responds "wut" or "lol wut"

It's just the internets way of responding to something dumb with something dumb.

[Plutonic Panda]

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

Josh, just remember every time you respond to this guy, you are arguing with someone who thinks the olympics is coming to OKC.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Besides that, Thanks for your outside input!

Dude, literally every single time okvision posts something, it is nearly unbearable to read due to the improper grammar and sentence structuring.