Convention Center

[betts]

I walk over to the Myriad Gardens from Deep Deuce with my dog fairly frequently. We walk from there to Joey's Pizza for dinner when the weather is agreeable.

[Rover]

I walk over to the Myriad Gardens from Deep Deuce with my dog fairly frequently. We walk from there to Joey's Pizza for dinner when the weather is agreeable.

Exactly!
This is why I think people get too bent out of shape over EXACTLY what goes where. We need to develop an urban AREA, not an urban block.

[Spartan]

Rover... No, this is an important project. It's on the blvd, on he park, across from the Peake... Come on now.

But I agree with you that I want blocks to be diverse. there are a lot of blocks that aren't as vital as this site.

[Rover]

Rover... No, this is an important project. It's on the blvd, on he park, across from the Peake... Come on now.

But I agree with you that I want blocks to be diverse. there are a lot of blocks that aren't as vital as this site.

I absolutely agree about the relative importance of getting this block right. But on the subject of diversity and mixed use I think the subject gets too myopic sometimes.

Even with the cc on this block (and that isn't still a certainty if they can't arrive at a price), there will be a great deal of night traffic in the area with the Peake and all its activity, the immediate proximity of 4 and possibly 5 fairly major hotels, the Montgomery, Legacy, and the new parking garage/apartments within a couple of blocks, and being a couple of blocks from both Bricktown and Film Row. With the west edge still to be determined and future possibilities with the old Cox center, I think it is way too early to predict the death of MG or the area based on the CC and CC Hotel being placed there.

[Spartan]

I absolutely agree about the relative importance of getting this block right. But on the subject of diversity and mixed use I think the subject gets too myopic sometimes.

Even with the cc on this block (and that isn't still a certainty if they can't arrive at a price), there will be a great deal of night traffic in the area with the Peake and all its activity, the immediate proximity of 4 and possibly 5 fairly major hotels, the Montgomery, Legacy, and the new parking garage/apartments within a couple of blocks, and being a couple of blocks from both Bricktown and Film Row. With the west edge still to be determined and future possibilities with the old Cox center, I think it is way too early to predict the death of MG or the area based on the CC and CC Hotel being placed there.

There is a difference between an area dying and failing to live up to its potential....

[LuccaBrasi]

The City paid Populous and GSB just under $500,000 to properly identify, study, and vet several sites ultimately choosing the "best one". "If" the City and powers that be honestly allowed that process to unfold as it should have, things like enhanced site costs due to the soils conditions, water table and/or environmental issues should have been well known and documented and taken into account from a budgetary standpoint. If any city is truly trying to identify the "best" and most viable site for an important project such as this, there should be few "ut-oh" surprises if the analysis process and due diligence was allowed to take the proper course. Then again, if the answer was known beforehand and the site analysis worked in reverse to validate the answer, then all kinds of issues and ut-oh's can creep into the equation. I'm not saying that's happened here, BUT, if news come out to support the rumors, it certainly would appear the City wasted taxpayer money it paid for a “mirage” report. I think if you looked in any city that's embarked on a large urban project like this that will ultimately change the entire urban dynamics of the city; it's always a mix of politics, money, power, and sensible urban design. I think politics and money usually win out, but not always. Then the best design within that scenario is the result. Which scenario has played out in OKC? Time may tell.........

[betts]

Then again, if the answer was known beforehand and the site analysis worked in reverse to validate the answer, then all kinds of issues and ut-oh's can creep into the equation. I'm not saying that's happened here, BUT, if news come out to support the rumors, it certainly would appear the City wasted taxpayer money it paid for a “mirage” report. I think if you looked in any city that's embarked on a large urban project like this that will ultimately change the entire urban dynamics of the city; it's always a mix of politics, money, power, and sensible urban design. I think politics and money usually win out, but not always. Then the best design within that scenario is the result. Which scenario has played out in OKC? Time may tell.........

When I attended the Populous presentation and looked at their scoring system, my thought certainly was that the "answer" was known beforehand and the site analysis worked in reverse. There were some numbers that made no sense.

[Just the facts]

Back the truck up....

Juel
10:38 a.m.

I am hearing the asking price of the proposed convention center site is cost prohibitive and alternatives are beginning to be considered. Any validity to that.
Steve Lackmeyer
10:39 a.m.

I've asked City Manager Jim Couch last week about whether other sites are getting second look. He denied that the city is doing anything other than proceeding with ttrying to buy he site chosen south of the Myriad Gardens and move forward with designs. But those rumors are out there.


Read more: http://newsok.com/unedited-transcrip...#ixzz24l5ItkZN

Did Steve hear the same rumor last week which prompted his question to Jim Couch?

[soonerguru]

Back the truck up....



Did Steve hear the same rumor last week which prompted his question to Jim Couch?

It should be clear with Couch's comical recent failures in budget planning and project management that ANY figure or projection his office makes should be heavily scrutinized. A ton is riding on this project. It's already the biggest MAPS III albatross.

[king183]

Check out Steve's blog. He just posted two flashback items regarding the convention center. He usually posts these flashback items as a prelude to new information coming out or a renewed debate/discussion occurring.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/

[Just the facts]

I think reality is setting in with the cost. Plus, the Stage Center site coming available, the discussion resulting from the boulevard, and an elementary school being built a block away screams - Mr Nichols, move this convention center.

[G.Walker]

I can't stress enough that if the CC proceeds as planned it will be an utter failure and disappointment to OKC taxpayers. With site acquisition costs, and other undetermined costs will only allow the city to build a mediocre CC, and we will still be in the lower tier in the convention center business.

The best thing they can do is rehabilitate and expand the Cox Center. They already own the land so there is no site acquisition costs, its at a perfect location, and they already have a shell to work with. They just need to gut the The Cox Center and start over. By doing this our $250 million will go a lot further, and could actually have money left over to fund $50 million to lure CC Hotel.

[Pete]

It's been obvious for a very long time that this old Ford site could not be done within the established budget.

To not even consider this while proceeding down a long and expensive road is ridiculous.

[Larry OKC]

I can't stress enough that if the CC proceeds as planned it will be an utter failure and disappointment to OKC taxpayers. With site acquisition costs, and other undetermined costs will only allow the city to build a mediocre CC, and we will still be in the lower tier in the convention center business.

The best thing they can do is rehabilitate and expand the Cox Center. They already own the land so there is no site acquisition costs, its at a perfect location, and they already have a shell to work with. They just need to gut the The Cox Center and start over. By doing this our $250 million will go a lot further, and could actually have money left over to fund $50 million to lure CC Hotel.

It's been obvious for a very long time that this old Ford site could not be done within the established budget.

To not even consider this while proceeding down a long and expensive road is ridiculous.

Over in Steve's blog, Councilman Shadid posted:

In the last convention center subcommittee meeting Mike Carrier indicated that $250 million would not be sufficient to build a convention center which would allow us to reach the next tier of conventions; that shortfall is worsened with the current convention center location selection.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...three-choices/

As far as redoing the Cox center, the Mayor stated (and I don't have any reason to disbelieve him on the point) that it would cost more do so than to just build new. Add into the picture that you would essentially be without a convention center while it is being done or severely limiting it. I presume you are talking about taking out the Arena portion and that means a loss of the side-by-side set up that we have found to be useful. I don't know what gutting cost but am guessing that it might be a wash as far as land acquisition costs? So other than folks agreeing that it is a good site, there are too many other things working against it

[G.Walker]

Locating the CC at that location will have a more negative than positive impact on downtown development.

1) If proceeds as planned, with current budget, it will still be considered a Tier 3 CC.
2) It creates a major super block separating Myriad Gardens/Central Park
3) It takes up prime boulevard frontage that would have promoted major development.
4) It killed the potential of a major mixed-use development proposed by Howard/Hall

[CaptDave]

I still believe the CC needs to be moved south of the arena and eastward where the loading docks back up to the BNSF viaduct. It will get it out of the way of better development, but still be close enough to hotels, Bricktown, and the park to be accessible to them without overwhelming those places.

A OKCTalk member named BG918 posted an excellent CC concept a year ago or longer that would fit perfectly in that footprint.

[dankrutka]

The bigger issue is that if they botch the CC, the least popular MAPS3 item that has curiously been prioritized, they may turn public opinion against future MAPS projects. I'm very worried that the hubris of a few leaders is going to end the public investment that has greatly assisted OKC's renaissance. ;(

[soonerguru]

The bigger issue is that if they botch the CC, the least popular MAPS3 item that has curiously been prioritized, they may turn public opinion against future MAPS projects. I'm very worried that the hubris of a few leaders is going to end the public investment that has greatly assisted OKC's renaissance. ;(

I have it from an insider that the Convention Center polled 7% in my ward, which is Larry McAtee's ward. Amazing to think he's such a sock puppet for developers and the Convention Center mafia. Perhaps he just wants to stay on the cocktail party invite list. I compared the CC polling in my ward to the popularity of Mitt Romney with African-American voters (a recent NBC-Wall Street Journal poll showed Romney garnering 0% -- not a typo -- of the AA vote).

[Rover]

So the Ford dealership was a long standing con job? Interesting accusation.

[SoonerDave]

So the Ford dealership was a long standing con job? Interesting accusation.

Hold the phone, there, Rover. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm pointing out the amazing irony in that the site location just happens to be where I was told it would be years before all the selection process started. I don't know anything about any politics or dealings beyond that. It could well be that it was entirely a coincidence, lucky guess, or misinterpretation of other information. Don't know. Just relaying what I was told, which is obviously hearsay.

[Just the facts]

I'm not buying that last part either SoonerDave. The Ford site has been under the same ownership for a long time and if the intent was to sell it to the city for a huge profit, that might not even happen. However, there is no doubt in my mind that members of CC committee wanted that site so bad they could taste it, and manipulated the process so that it was selected. Alas, I expect Devon to cover the cost difference in exchange for naming rights.

[G.Walker]

So... any takers for a Friends For A Better Convention Center Site?

This is exactly what I was thinking, have they had a public meeting to gather input about the proposed location of the new CC? To hear our comments, and proposals? Unlike the new boulevard, WE are paying for this project, so the average OKC citizen should have some input, not just representatives from the CC Subcommittee.

[Just the facts]

So... any takers for a Friends For A Better Convention Center Site?

You might be on to something here.

I think the east Bricktown location or south of the arena are the two best locations and have no problem with either one. After phase 1 is done they need to demolish the current Cox Center, reinstate the stree grid (which will create nearly one mile of new street frontage), sell the land to developers, and use the profits to builds phase II of the new convention center or payoff any debt from building phase II early.

[jedicurt]

After phase 1 is done they need to demolish the current Cox Center

i don't recall there being an arena in the new CC. if this is the case then i am adamantly opposed to destroying the Cox Center at that time. Having two arenas so close together has been very useful, and dropping down to one (while not impossible) would make a scheduling nightmare for all the events that are being held in both of these facilities. Perhaps in MAPS 4, we will find out what to do with the cox center... perhaps building a small arena in a corner, and destroying everything else, and hopefully there will be enough room to return to street grid at that point

[G.Walker]

Will they have one of these for the new CC design or location?

MAPS 3 Update: 8/20/2012
Public input sought on MAPS 3 Downtown Park design

Everyone is invited to a community meeting to provide information and solicit design and programming ideas for the 70-acre MAPS 3 Downtown Park.

The meeting will be held from 6 – 8:30 p.m. on September 13 in the fourth floor auditorium of the Downtown Library, 300 Park Avenue.

“We want to hear everyone’s ideas on how this iconic park should look and function,” Mayor Mick Cornett said. “Our goal is to design a unique gathering space that will be a frequent destination for residents and set Oklahoma City apart from other cities.”

The $132 million park is made up of a 40-acre upper section and a 30-acre lower section which is connected by Oklahoma City Skydance Bridge. The park is within the boundaries of Hudson to the west, Robinson to the east the Oklahoma City Boulevard to the north and the Oklahoma River on the south.

Land acquisition for the upper park is 95 percent complete and construction is expected to begin in 2013. The meeting will be facilitated by park consultant Hargreaves Associates.