Ersland Trial Begins

[Pete]

You certainly can't tell conclusively from the video but the fact that Ersland felt compelled to lie about what happened was pretty much an admission of guilt.

[Thunder]

Brian, just because both agreed that he could be alive does not make it a fact that he was alive. Jury screwed up big time. I'd like a list of the people on the jury, if that info becomes available, but I am sure some of them come on here. They should be ashamed of themselves. Oklahoma was disgraced by them. My god, how would you feel of being charged with murder for shooting a dead body that was once alive and tried to do harm toward you? Geez. Wake up Jurors, wake up! They probably found him guilty out of fear of being attacked by the black gangs. True that, bet on it.

[SoonerLawyer]

What a travesty of justice. Does nothing more then gives the gangbangers and thugs more reason to rob someones business w/o worrying about the consequences. I could expect a ruling like this in liberal CA or NY but not here. What a sad day.........

How does it give gangbangers and thugs more reason to rob someone? That logic makes absolutely no sense. Business owners still have all the rights they did before this trial (and even moreso now with the new legislation passed this session). However, business owners will never and have never been allowed to murder someone who is not an imminent threat in the name of self-defense. This changes nothing, it simply makes a murderer be accountable for his actions.

[SoonerLawyer]

Brian, just because both agreed that he could be alive does not make it a fact that he was alive. Jury screwed up big time. I'd like a list of the people on the jury, if that info becomes available, but I am sure some of them come on here. They should be ashamed of themselves. Oklahoma was disgraced by them. My god, how would you feel of being charged with murder for shooting a dead body that was once alive and tried to do harm toward you? Geez. Wake up Jurors, wake up! They probably found him guilty out of fear of being attacked by the black gangs. True that, bet on it.

Not sure how the jury should be ashamed of themselves for upholding the letter of the law. Very proud of what they did. That verdict took guts. A non-guilty verdict was the easy way out.

[kevinpate]

Thunder, you are entitled to your own opinion laddie, but when you decide to make up your own facts so you can hang your opinion on it like a poorly constructed failed shop 4 years running hat rack, I simply must completely part company with you.

Ersland wasn't confused on the point. The medical professionals were not confused on that point. Ersland's attorneys and the govt. attorneys are no confused on the point. The jurors rather clearly were not confused on the point, after hearing the evidence. The only one who seems to have any question of whether Parker was alive at the time of the five shots is you.

If you want to say I don't care if he was alive or not, he deserved to be killed, then just stand tall and say that is your opinion. But to dress it up as being based on non-existent facts is just somewhat of a grade school level argument, at best. It'll perhaps float for a South Park episode, but it'll either get laughed at or sighed over in the grownup world.

As to the verdict, I'm not surprised at the outcome. The speed in which it was reached, yeah a little bit.

[Uncle Slayton]

I can't say I didn't see this coming and I knew the quick turn was a guilty. Ersland never was a character for whom you felt sympathy. He came off like he was batsh*t, he looked funny, etc...

I thoroughly appreciate his diligence in removing that piece of human debris from the face of the earth, but he should have aimed that first shot a little better.

[PennyQuilts]

I am surprised that they decided so quickly and expected a lesser charge, like manslaughter. This jury was clearly of a different mind. Did they poll the jury? Can they even do that in Oklahoma (I never practiced criminal law, here)?

[Wambo36]

I'm a little disappointed in the 1st degree Murder verdict which means he will in all likelihood die in prison. Too stiff in my opinion. I had hoped that since they could consider a manslaughter verdict that they would be inclined to do so. I'll be interested to hear why they thought it deserved a life sentence instead of the 4 years.

[Uncle Slayton]

On a side note, maybe some of the attorneys here can help, does Ervin Box ever *win* cases, or just glom onto the stuff that has TV cameras attached?

[kevinpate]

I am surprised that they decided so quickly and expected a lesser charge, like manslaughter. This jury was clearly of a different mind. Did they poll the jury? Can they even do that in Oklahoma (I never practiced criminal law, here)?

They can request the jurors be polled in Oklahoma. I've never heard of a juror disavow his or her verdict at the time of a poll. It can come up from time to time, very rare though, during an investigation during an appeal.

Speaking of which, I wonder who will handle the appeal. Ersland seems to be beyond financially tapped, based on earlier press articles. I suppose maybe Box's team, or someone else, might step out and offer to represent him on appeal without a fee, but that seems rather doubtful. And of course there are the not insignificant record expenses. Probably will end up landing in the county public defender office. Then again, perhaps the appeal was negotiated as part of the overall fee in the event of a conviction (unusual, but it could happen)

[kevinpate]

Uncle Slayton, it's fair to say all attorneys sometimes prevail for their clients, and sometimes they do not. I canna think of any attorney who has a 100% record at either end of the extreme.

[Uncle Slayton]

Uncle Slayton, it's fair to say all attorneys sometimes prevail for their clients, and sometimes they do not. I canna think of any attorney who has a 100% record at either end of the extreme.

I get that, yeah, but the guy called one witness and told a story about how scared you'd be in a robbery attempt if it was you? $5K per day for that?

[Thunder]

I would like for Brian to obtain a copy of the gunshot entrance and exit (if any) hole(s) to the boy's head. Gunshot like this are almost always fatal. I know the Arizona Congresswoman survived, but she had immediate medical attention. Medical assistance wouldn't be able to arrive and save the boy in time. Its a no brainer, folks. That kid was good as dead. Really wish I was picked as a Juror on the case. I'm not saying I approve of the man's lies and afterward actions, it is just that, the kid was basically dead or about to be dead.

[Dana]

I am surprised that they decided so quickly and expected a lesser charge, like manslaughter. This jury was clearly of a different mind. Did they poll the jury? Can they even do that in Oklahoma (I never practiced criminal law, here)?

Irvin did tell Judge Elliott that he would like to poll the jury and Judge Elliott agreed

[Dana]

On a side note, maybe some of the attorneys here can help, does Ervin Box ever *win* cases, or just glom onto the stuff that has TV cameras attached?

Yes Irven Box does win cases sometimes without ever having to even walk into court sometimes all you have to do is hire him and charges are dismissed because of what he does before he ever has to go to trial.

[PennyQuilts]

Yes Irven Box does win cases sometimes without ever having to even walk into court sometimes all you have to do is hire him and charges are dismissed because of what he does before he ever has to go to trial.

That is a perception. In the big cases, which are the ones he takes, charges generally don't go away. I'm not saying they won't plea it down but that's generally on the table, anyway. As for simply dismissing charges because Box is involved, I don't buy it. The cases that are that weak aren't the kind Box is going to be involved in. I personally believe that having money to pay a high powered attorney can make the difference in some cases but the notion that justice is no longer a factor by virtue of a particular attorney being involved is ridiculous.

[PennyQuilts]

I once had a family member who was constantly in and out of jail. The family always hired the same attorney to represent him. He used to tell me that this particular lawyer had all the judges in his backpocket and when you went to see him, he'd tell you that it would cost ##### to have the charges dropped and ##### to go to trial. The way this family member understood it, the lawyer could get them to drop the charges for a certain amount but if you didn't have enough money, you had to go to trial. That always struck me as incredibly corrupt. It wasn't until I became a lawyer that I figured out that my young family member had it all turned around. What was happening was that the lawyer was charging ### for a plea (which in my family friend's case generally meant time served and probation) and #### if the case went to trial - and in this particular case, would generally include some jail time.

Those are the kinds of ignorant rumors that make unsophisticated people believe that all it takes to walk is to have the right lawyer. The underlying facts, some are convinced, are immaterial.

[Dana]

That is a perception. In the big cases, which are the ones he takes, charges generally don't go away. I'm not saying they won't plea it down but that's generally on the table, anyway. As for simply dismissing charges because Box is involved, I don't buy it. The cases that are that weak aren't the kind Box is going to be involved in. I personally believe that having money to pay a high powered attorney can make the difference in some cases but the notion that justice is no longer a factor by virtue of a particular attorney being involved is ridiculous.

That is not what I said you misinterpreted what I mean't so let me explain in a simpler fashion. Irvin Box is very well known in and out of the court house and everybody knows that he knows his stuff (legal knowledge). That is why if in some cases when people know they are being railroaded and it does happen when they hire Irvin he will make sure that his client's rights are upheld. Also he has taken cases that are not high profile many of them to be exact.

[dcsooner]

I can't say I didn't see this coming and I knew the quick turn was a guilty. Ersland never was a character for whom you felt sympathy. He came off like he was batsh*t, he looked funny, etc...

I thoroughly appreciate his diligence in removing that piece of human debris from the face of the earth, but he should have aimed that first shot a little better.

It is truly sad that anyone would characterize any life as debris. I am ALL for protecting your life of your families in obvious self defense, but to accept this mans commission of "murder" by execution is troubling. You need prayer in you life and you appear to have a great deal of hate likely a result of your internal predjudices.

[Dana]

I once had a family member who was constantly in and out of jail. The family always hired the same attorney to represent him. He used to tell me that this particular lawyer had all the judges in his backpocket and when you went to see him, he'd tell you that it would cost ##### to have the charges dropped and ##### to go to trial. The way this family member understood it, the lawyer could get them to drop the charges for a certain amount but if you didn't have enough money, you had to go to trial. That always struck me as incredibly corrupt. It wasn't until I became a lawyer that I figured out that my young family member had it all turned around. What was happening was that the lawyer was charging ### for a plea (which in my family friend's case generally meant time served and probation) and #### if the case went to trial - and in this particular case, would generally include some jail time.

Those are the kinds of ignorant rumors that make unsophisticated people believe that all it takes to walk is to have the right lawyer. The underlying facts, some are convinced, are immaterial.

Plea bargains and dismissals are 2 different things, also I have never met an attorney that does not tell you if I have to go to trial on your case it will cost more that is just simple business for them. In a lot of cases it is not really about guilt or innocense it is about how you can afford to have the charges handled. I am sure with you being a lawyer you know how they operate it always will cost a client more to go to trial it doesn't matter if they are guilty or innocent. Just read this quote from Justice Scalia “What kind of a legal system is this where we're going to design our rules to encourage guilty people to plead - or innocent people to plead guilty? It's crazy.” Justice Scalia

[FRISKY]

Another travesty of justice. A clear case of the court system (I refuse to call it the Justice System.) twisting and corrupting the law and common sense so that the victims are guilty and the criminals are innocent.

Maybe the appeal will get it straightened out.

[Uncle Slayton]

It is truly sad that anyone would characterize any life as debris. I am ALL for protecting your life of your families in obvious self defense, but to accept this mans commission of "murder" by execution is troubling. You need prayer in you life and you appear to have a great deal of hate likely a result of your internal predjudices.

Calls 'em like I sees 'em, chief. As it happens, Speedy Parker or whatever his name was, found out actions have consequences two years before Mr. Ersland did.

I don't really hate or pray, they're the same kind of useless endeavor, but I don't bother with people who simply don't matter, which is the case with the late "Speedy" Parker. Depending on the day, I could have stepped over him and asked if they had my prescription ready.

[dcsooner]

Calls 'em like I sees 'em, chief. As it happens, Speedy Parker or whatever his name was, found out actions have consequences two years before Mr. Ersland did.

I don't really hate or pray, they're the same kind of useless endeavor, but I don't bother with people who simply don't matter, which is the case with the late "Speedy" Parker. Depending on the day, I could have stepped over him and asked if they had my prescription ready.

I call you "ignorant and vile: chief.

[PennyQuilts]

Like I said before, perhaps on another thread - this mother might just as well have shoved that poor kid in there and slammed the door. Doesn't excuse the convicted but wretched parenting results in a lot of good kids losing their future, one way or another. She brought the scumbag b*stard into her son's life who prompted the kid to attempt this robbery. There was a risk involved, prison or otherwise, which is exactly why that coward sent those kids inside instead of going in, himself. When you raise savages and turn them loose on society, as this mother did, is it any wonder that they run into equally savage people or unbalanced people? Doesn't excuse an execution - I am not saying that. But this mother simply dumped her son out into the world of crime. By exposing him to criminals, she guaranteed that he would become a predator or a victim. Horrible.

If the adult coward had simply killed him in a drug deal, we all would have shrugged and said it is terrible - and thought no more about it. We'd have agreed that he deserved the death penalty but thought not much more about it. I think we have all but written off crime in the black community so long as it doesn't cross over the line to involve white people. What a tragic waste. This young man wasn't debris but he certainly was treated like it by his family. And the convicted. To be fair, he was acting like debris when he was killed but he still didn't deserve that. We have laws on the books to deal with that sort of thing once the need for self defense passes.

[positano]

Assuming the judge sentences consistently with the jury recommendation, I would expect new counsel for appeal. Stand by for the IAC claim...