24th Annual Gay Pride Events and Parade

[Thunder]

Yes they are -of the three sons of my significant other - two are gay and one is straight. And one of their cousins is also gay. Genetics - ya think?
If the heat will diminish, I may go to parade. I understand historical significance but I sure wish Pride Week would be in September!

That is totally amazing. I have tried to figure out if it was really genetic or not, but I could not determine anyone else in the family, both sides, to be gay. My brother, I'm sure he is at least Bisexual, but his actions been declaring him straight, especially with this bad girlfriend he has living with us now. Really wish mom had more kids... I would rather let one of them to come "out" to test the water, before I drop the huge bombshell.

[PennyQuilts]

Thunder, my dad was a man's man, hunter (until he decided he didn't want to kill, anymore), sports fan, beer drinker, you get the picture. He was stunned but supportive when his step son came out of the closet many decades ago. When my brother told him (like we didn't already know), my dad shocked him by being totally supportive of him and his partner at the time - his only request (and this makes this relevant to this post) is that my brother never march in a gay pride parade while he was living. My brother could have taken offense but he didn't. He just laughed and promised. Not only did he keep his word, but beginning the year after my dad was gone, he started marching every year. He felt like my dad would understand and get a laugh out of it. I think he would have, too. We had one of the good ones and neither he or my brothers let garbage get in the way of the love they had for each other.

[mrktguy29]

I'll be at the parade! I just read this entire thread in one sitting and amazed at the support, and non-support that its received. I mainly follow the development posts here and decided to take a step into civic issues. This thread was first up and so glad it was.

First I loved Doug's article. Well researched and written.

2, Being from the 'right' politically I am an outcast to the LGBT community. The rare breed of gay republicans is not an accepted trait by most. I feel my job is to 'teach' the gay community that we have to accept each other before asking for others to accept who we are.

There are a lot of statements that were made that are very stereotypical but I must say 'hit the nail on the head'. Most dress for the weather (what anyone would do) others showing off (lady gaga lovers, yes I stereotype), drag queens, leather daddies and 'kinks' that were mentioned. I must say though that those 'crazy' outfits are few a far between.

If you don't support it fine, I respect your views. I ask that you respect mine. This event brings people in from all over the state and some from out of state to celebrate a time to be free and have a good time. It brings money to the great city and that is good for everyone. Denver had their celebration this weekend and hosted over 100k people who attended. I have been to 2 Dallas celebrations in the past and they are massive events. The parade can stretch on for 2-3 hours, thousands of people line the half-mile parade route and end at the park for booths, food, etc. Tulsa's was not at all good this year, lots of things to blame.

If you want to learn more about the history and world-wide issues there was a great documentary called "Beyond Gay: The Politics of Pride"

Maybe next year we can all join as float for the site and the 'haters' can pull the float?

[USG'60]

Thunder, I used to know a man and his 2 sons, all 3 of whom were gay. It isn't common but it happens.

[Thunder]

:-O @ USG :-O

mrktguy29, I'm a Republican, too!!!

[Thunder]

Meeting that guy >>> mrktguy29 <<< so we will see how it goes. If I'm not back after that, then ya'all know I'm dead, so call on all the search 'n rescue teams and stuff like that. LOL Joking.. :-P Okay, I will try to have videos or pictures? I dunno... Lets see if Sprint push out the 2.3 Gingerbread for the Epic for awesome battery life (defeats iPhone).

[Doug Loudenback]

I've now all but finished the "Oklahoma City" section of my article and I'll post it here, but without formatting, embedded links or associated graphics, as follows:

Oklahoma City. The Oklahoma City part of this section might well be called, "To ban(ner) or not to ban(ner), that is the question."

Much of the research I've done consists of reviewing the on-line Oklahoman's archives from 1980, although I'll reference other sources, as well. To read an Oklahoman article mentioned, click on the date-link, such as this one: March 20, 1991 ... and, by the way if you've been reading from the beginning, this is tip #2 ... no, it's not Ron Norick. You can also read, print, or save all articles. To see the articles as thumbnails, click here. To see the articles in a larger view, something like a slideshow, click here. The photo at right was taken by Oklahoman photographer Paul Hellstern, published June 2, 2004.

But let's begin a bit earlier than that with the city's first such parade, on June 19, 1988. The brief June 16 Oklahoman article didn't say much except when and where it would begin and end and identified a speaker who the article merely described as "Levi." The June 20 article after the parade was much larger, it saying that about 400 were in attendance. Apparently, the Ku Klux Klan had threatened opposition and at least implied violence but that did not occur. Jeff Levi, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, was the speaker, he having flown here from Stockholm, Sweden, to attend the event. Andy Southam, local group leader, said, "Here in Oklahoma, because it is the buckle of the Bible Belt, the gay rights movement has been very slow. We're hoping that with this first march people's thinking will start to move forward," and he also noted that city officials had been completely cooperative during the process.

Annual parades since then also seem to have gone off without a hitch as to the parade and associated events themselves. See these articles: June 10, 1989; June 19, 1989, the latter estimating parade attendance at 1,000. The Oklahoman didn't include much coverage in 1990, but what it did provide was enough to generate a smile from this reader: In a June 12 blurb it was said that state house speaker and gubernatorial candidate Steve Lewis (D- Shawnee) would be attending, however Mr. Lewis was apparently quick to say, "No, not me!" since a June 13 snippet, "Setting It Straight," reported that, in fact, Mr. Lewis had declined the group's invitation. I could locate no Oklahoman articles mentioning the annual event in 1991 or 1992. A June 28 article reported on the parade in 1993, it noting that Sgt. Jose Zuniga, the 6th US Army's Soldier or the Year and Desert Storm hero, but discharged from the military because he was gay, was a featured speaker, and local entertainer, Peggy Johnson, discharged from the navy because she was a lesbian, spoke as well. No Oklahoman articles appeared in 1994, almost none in 1995, and nothing showed up in the Oklahoman from 1996 through 2000 that I could locate.

An interesting story did appear in 2001. A anonymous letter had apparently found its way to Ward 1 voters that Mick Cornett, then city council candidate for that ward, had been endorsed by the Cimarron Alliance. In fact, the Alliance had endorsed Cornett against Frosty Peak, but it denied sending the letter. Cornett's ungracious response to the anonymous letter was to offer "a $500 reward to anyone who can offer proof of who sent the letter," the March 17, 2001, article said. "When Bashline heard that Cornett had spoken against gay rights, he said it made him reconsider the group's endorsement, but he said it was too late."

Mostly, though, 2001 was notable for the reason that Kirk Humphreys, mayor, proposed that the city's light-pole-banner policy be changed. The city began the banner program in 1989 as part of 1889 Land Run Centennial activities and the policy was broad enough to permit Cimarron Alliance's banner request. In this July 11 article, Jack Money reported that banners on 44 poles along Classen Boulevard featuring a torch with a rainbow flame over the name of Cimarron Alliance Foundation, placed there after being granted a city permit, had been been taken down after "city leaders" received complaints. After attorneys representing the foundation threatened litigation, the city put the banners back up. In that context, the article reported that,

Humphreys said he believes the city's banner policy should prohibit all that don't contain "positive" community messages.
* * *
[quoting Humphreys] "They (homosexuals) have a right to behave that way if they want to — although quite frankly some aspects of it are illegal, quite frankly," he said. "But I don't think they have the right to advance their philosophy for the same reasons that Neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan and religious groups don't."

In its July 17 editorial, the Oklahoman basically said, "Three cheers to the mayor!"

A homosexual activist group insists that banners promoting "gay and lesbian pride" are protected by free speech. This is nonsense.
* * *
The homosexual activists may succeed in doing away with the banner program altogether. This would be a shame, as the colorful banners are eye-catching and appealing. Mayor Kirk Humphreys likes the banners but dislikes using the banner program to promote a political "irrelegious" agenda. He's right.

The Oklahoman's editorial position was rejoined by Bill Rodgers, chairman of the Cimarron Alliance Foundation in Oklahoma City, in a June 21 letter to the editor which, to its credit, the Oklahoman chose to publish.

But, what action would the city council take? It was a hot potato with lots of possible legal possible (as well as other types of) ramifications. Jack Money's August 15 Oklahoman article reported that the following policy was given authorization to be considered by city council 8-0, even though with misgivings expressed by some council members. Money reported that,

The policy states that banners and bus bench advertising would be limited to items that would "promote or celebrate the city, its civic institutions, or public activities or events in the City of Oklahoma City and ... otherwise (would) promote the corporate interests and welfare of the city."

Once again, the editorial position of the Oklahoman weighed in. In its August 20 editorial, the Oklahoman chimed in and opined as follows:

Unless members of the Oklahoma City Council are prepared to vote on the content of every banner or bus bench slogan that comes along, they should accept the proposed policy banning advocacy messages on the benches and banners. Yes, the policy would prohibit some messages that few would find objectionable, such as anti-drug appeals.
* * *
* * * Based on the words of some council members last week when the policy was introduced for discussion, it's clear that there is some resistance to the proposal. Unfortunately, the city can't exclude some social advocacy positions while condoning others. The only way around the policy is to require council members to vote on individual messages as they're proposed. That's not practical.
* * * The homosexual activist group forced this issue to the forefront with its banners. It will not accept being excluded while more popular advocacy positions are condoned.

More than 100 years ago in 1907, the blacks in our city weren't embraced or condoned by the mainstream white community or by the Oklahoman either, though they then had no voice or mainstream spokesperson. It is perhaps forgotten by many, but the Daily Oklahoman's position with regard to the civil liberties of our black citizens and not only in that time immediately slaps me in the face. Click the Oklahoman September 13, 1907, graphic at right to see its front page on that day. The headline's sub-headline read, "Negro Must Be Made to Know His Place — Should Have Equal Privileges But Entirely Separate." So, as far as civil liberties are concerned, since when has "more popular" been the test? I almost hate to show this since it so blatantly vile, and as to that conclusion certainly almost all of us would today agree. But I will show it since coming from the mouth of the Oklahoman it reflects at least some part the Oklahoman's civil liberties history much more than any one of us would doubtless care to remember. My point is that the Oklahoman has no legitimate basis to claim a morally superior position or that it has ever been on the forefront of promoting civil liberties of any minority group that I'm aware. I'll also say that I've done no research into the women's suffrage movement as yet, so I'll add that qualification.

Anyway, back to topic. What happened with Mayor Humphrey's 2001 initiative? Shortly before it was set to come before city council, on August 25, Jack Money wrote another article focusing upon former council member Eric Grove's thoughts that the measure would not withstand the test of legal challenge. Be that as it may, the proposed ordinance passed city council on August 29, 2001, and Jack Money's August 30 article gives the story. By a 6-3 vote, the proposed ordinance was adopted by city council, members Amy Brooks, Ann Simank, and Willa Johnson voting "No." Once again, the Oklahoman's editorial commentary gave its hearty, "Hoo-ahh."

But, that was not the end of it. After the council's action, the Alliance applied for a banner license for 2002, and the same was denied, which denial was upheld by City Manager Jim Couch. In response, federal court action was promised in October by the Alliance, and on November 30, it came. This time, Oklahoman reporter Jack Money was off the case and reporter Ed Godfrey gave his December 1 report of the litigation. 9-10 months later, federal judge Robin J. Cauthron ruled against the city, as reported by this David Zizzo September 17, 2002, article. But, that was still not the end of the 2001 story.

The question of damages in the federal litigation remained. How much had the Cimarron Alliance been damaged by the city's 2001 action led by Mayor Humphreys? Following the above decision, the city council voted 8-1 to accept the federal judge's ruling, per this October 17, 2002, article. According to that article, the city would be required to pay "nominal damages" of $3.00 to the Alliance, plus attorneys fees. Eventually, the city did settle, with the mayor paying $1 dollar of damages.

"But, wait — that's not all — there is more!" as Ron Popeil says. Indeed there was. The federal court decision could not have prohibited the city council from considering a revised ordinance. Oklahoman Reporter Steve Lackmeyer reported on the ordinance changes then pending in a January 14, 2003, article — even with the above history, the council simply did not know what to do with this hot potato.

As reported by Steve Lackmeyer on February 5, 2003, the first response of city council was to pass the buck to OG&E, owner of the light poles, and let it deal with the problem. The vote was 6-3, Mayor Humphreys and council members Jerry Foshee, MickCornett, Larry McAtee, Brent Rinehart, and Guy Liebmann voting yes; Willa Johnson, Ann Simank, and Amy Brooks voting no. OG&E was given until July 5 to accept that status, but it promptly said, "No, not me," more quickly than that. Finally, on June 17, 2003, the city council unanimously approved a policy permitting banners without regard to without any restriction on sponsor's messages. Steve Lackmeyer's June 18 article said,

Bill Rogers, past president of the Cimarron Alliance which sued the city over its previous policy, said he was surprised by the lack of debate over the new policy. "It's a turnaround," Rogers said. "I think it's a real victory for the city."

After that decision, the issue of banners went away, and the Oklahoman resumed coverage of the parade which has been increasingly good since that time. The map shown here was part of a June 21, 2003, article by Ann DeFrange, and another in 2003 showing color photos from the parade. For other Oklahoman articles, see June 2, 2004; June 28, 2004; June 22, 2005; a series of articles by Judy Gibbs Robinson — June 28, 2004, June 22, 2005, June 27, 2005, June 29, 2005, February 2, 2006, June 22, 2006, and June 26, 2006. The Oklahoman even began carrying related articles like this June 23, 2006, article on gay marriage. It was in 2006 that Carrie Coppernoll began covering the events for the Oklahoman, and, in fact, one might say that she has become a favorite of the event hosts themselves, she having been an event judge in 2009 and 2010. In her June 27, 2006, article, she said, about her 1st attendance at the parade,

When I first walked up, I was nervous. I was in the minority. Would people look at me funny? I felt uncomfortable for a minute, like I didn't belong and didn't fit in. I felt a little shy. ¶ Do many of the people at the parade feel like that every day? How daunting. How intimidating. I hope I never make someone feel uncomfortable for his or her sexuality the way I felt uncomfortable about mine.

Other Oklahoman articles came to have a sensitive and perhaps approving tone. John David Sutter's June 17, 2007, article provides such an example. In it, he said,

Many in attendance took a moment on this anniversary, the 20th year of gay pride events here, to talk about how much more responsive the city has become to gay culture. While many still see the event as controversial, attendees said, the death threats and protesters are gone.
[Paul] Thompson said the city has become much more accepting of gay life. He once received death threats by telephone for being an advocate of gay rights, he said. Now, Thompson fees that Oklahoma City is beginning to accept gay culture. ¶ "Oklahoma City is going to have to wake up and get with this century, or it's going to have to be a quaint, Western kind of cow town," he said. ¶Margaret Cox, 68, a board member of the Cimarron Alliance Foundation, a gay rights group, said that the transition has already happened. People in the city "know that a vibrant city also has a vibrant gay community," she said.
* * *
The event is meant to be an inclusive celebration for anyone to take part in, attendee Jay Hollenbeck said. "I think they (people in Oklahoma City) realize that we are not trying to become more separate. We're trying to become more integrated into the city," said Hollenbeck, 42. "We have a lot to offer."

To round out the decade, other articles also appeared: June 25, 2007, showing a pair of paraders; June 22, 2008, showing some protesters; June 30, 2009, finding favor at the White House; July 2, 2009, and June 29, 2010, Carrie Coppernoll writing the last pair of articles.

All that said, does the city and state have a long way to go in respecting the rights of the LGBT community? Of course they/we do. Oklahoma laws on marriage and adoption, discussed previously, almost singularly mark our state as one of a kind in this country. We've got pip-squeaks, small minded people who are in positions of authority, such as Sally Kern, Republican member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives, shown at right and below. She represents a west-center Oklahoma City state district, near Bethany. She maintains that homosexuals are a greater threat to this country than are Islamic extremists (such as those who destroyed the twin towers in New York City, above left).

As long as the likes of Sally Kern are in positions of authority, and as long as the majority of citizens in this state persist in imposing upon others their narrow view of what the world should be, there is a problem. In this March 11, 2008, article, the local, state, and national furor she sparked brought ridicule on the city and state from around the world. Listen for yourself, when she didn't thinking others were listening. Well, they were. Worry about your 2-year olds, she says ...
... and she is right about that.

But about what should we worry? About our children being taught that blacks, women, or gay people are inferior to white non-religiously conservative people like she is and represents? Deja vu, I'm thinking, to what we heard in Germany during World War II. You figure out what you should be most worried about. If Ms. Kern has a saving grace, it is that her views are so extreme as to embarrass even her fellow Republicans in the Republican-controlled state legislature, so much so that she was recently reprimanded by the state House of Representatives for her untoward remarks about blacks and women as being lazy by a vote of 76-16. See the official vote.

[Roadhawg]

Good article

[Jersey Boss]

Thanks for the contribution, Doug.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thanks, Roadhawg & Jersey Boss. I keep tweaking the article ... most recently added, here are Ward 2 City Council member Ed Shadid's remarks made at the City Council meeting yesterday. Sam Bowman, his predecessor, was supportive of these events, and it's plain to see that Shadid is also, perhaps in spades.

[Thunder]

Why am I not drunk. :-(

Instant headache for all that booze. NO FUN!!! I'd like to be drunk and not remember what the hell I was doing. *sighs*

[Jim Kyle]

But about what should we worry? About our children being taught that blacks, women, or gay people are inferior to white non-religiously conservative people like she is and represents?

Those two sentences are worth an entire editorial in themselves, Doug! Made me realize that I've left something out of a piece I'm working on, too. But how can one attack "reverse racism" without sounding racist themselves?

[kevinpate]

... I'd like to be drunk and not remember what the hell I was doing. *sighs*

Laddie, reading that wants me to thrash you with a switch, and not in some dungeony chains and leather way, just a good old fashioned switching like adults used to give younguns when they was being ignurnt well below even minimal expectations.

I know you're a grown man, and I know I'm probably going to end up wishing I had hit delete instead of send, but what you've written is just the most idiotic thing I've ever seen your write. And laddie, let's face it, that is saying something cause you can get out there from time to time. Some of it's not intentional and some of it is and that's fine.

You know what they call young girls who take or get talked into that attitude? Check into the teen mom bleah series on mtv and elsewhere. You know what else they call totally wasted drinkers, male or female? Victims.

Getting tanked, loaded, totally wasted, passed off barf faced drunk is not something to aspire too. It's gross for one, and most importantly, it is flat out dangerous, even if you are in your own home, but especially if you are out and about.

For all your conservatism spiels from time to time, do you really think someone who favors strong stances on personal responsibility ought to be wishing you were so freaking drunk you don't know or remember what the hell you're doing, or where, or when, or how you got there, or with whom, or with how many whoms?

You are smarter than that, better than that and you deserve to treat yourself better than that. I hope you will. But if not, make your peace with your momma now, because you create stronger odds than she might bury you instead of you bury her. And laddie, that's a real pile to lay on your momma's heart.

[Doug Loudenback]

Kevin, my sweet grandmother called 'em "limber switches," and we sometimes had to get our own. Guess that doesn't happen anymore.

[kevinpate]

Kevin, my sweet grandmother called 'em "limber switches," and we sometimes had to get our own. Guess that doesn't happen anymore.

Yep. The going and gettin' was just as big a part of the process as the rest of it, courtesy of the frettin' over if ya picked too puny a switch for your offense. May not of enjoyed it then, but I do admit it was not ineffective.

[USG'60]

Thunder, ol' buddy, father Kevin just layed some wise councel on you and I hope you pay attention. I know it was your way of saying Lord, I wish it were all easier, but, in fact, it ain't. It may be in the future but for now you have to deal with NOW.

Regarding switches, ya'll, a friend once told me that his mom, too, made him go get a switch of the tree in the back yard. So one day he was sent out and all the ones he could reach were gone so he picked up a rock, went inside and said Here, hit me with this. She laughed so hard she let him off. He didn't say how it was dealt with after that.

Thunder, shape up or ship out. :-P

[Lauri101]

Guys - you said it all to Thunder but I'm going to lay a bit of "mama thought" into it - losing a child is the most miserable thing that can happen to a parent. Thunder - please don't do that again! Some of us actually care about your welfare!

[Thunder]

Wait... What's wrong with drinking and having fun? I don't understand that part. I was just saying that I'd rather experience the drunken part and not always skipping that to pre-hangover-headache. I think you guys are misunderstanding something or...I dunno.

Took my friend to COPA last night, The place was packed. The areas was packed. We waited in a long line to enter COPA. First time I've ever had to wait in line. Anyway, my friend wanted to dance. I told him I don't dance. I go to club simply to sit, relax, chat, drink, smoke, blah blah blah. lol This is a friend that I once fell in love with, but he wasn't ready (at the time, he recently got out of a relationship where his ex-bf cheated on him). Yeah, I'm over the "in love" part and consider him a friend/brother. So...anyway, he wanted me to dance, but I didn't feel like it. I thought that maybe by drinking, I'll get drunk and loose my mind on the dance floor. That didn't happen. *sighs* I hanged around with him until he got comfortable and started dancing, then I went to other areas, drank, and talked to some guys. I dunno about ya'all opinion, but I just don't think its right to dance with a friend/brother, but basically want to give him space where guys can approach him (if I was staying with him, people may assume we be together). He really wanted me to dance, so the booze didn't put that effect on me to "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" so I just ended up talking to guys (notepad on phone). All in all, we had fun. He had fun, at least I hope so. lol Just not really experienced, and not everyone go to a club for dancing (some watch and chat with others). Yeah, not like I always drink...no. Just wanted to at least, hope to get drunk, then maybe that fear of dancing among strangers would go away...didn't happen. So...many...people. My gawd, the strippers...guys in underwears only...omg. Okay.. lol Anyway, don't get overboard on me drinking for that night out of pure fun..enjoyment. Not like I was going to die or anything.

[Doug Loudenback]

Those two sentences are worth an entire editorial in themselves, Doug! Made me realize that I've left something out of a piece I'm working on, too. But how can one attack "reverse racism" without sounding racist themselves?

That is done by respecting the right of speech that is foul from where ever it comes and regardless of one's perspective. It's tough, but it's doable.

This is a not a particularly good but is a flawed analogous example, but is nonetheless illustrative. Several years back, I worked in the same office as did a then state representative who I will call "Joe." The "flawed analogous example" part is that Joe never once in my presence made a racist or sexist (including gays/lesbians) untoward remark about anyone who disagreed with his political and/or religious views, and, of course, that differentiates him from Sally Kern for sure. Even died-in-the-wool liberals that knew (know) him called him a gentleman, through and through, even if being 180 degrees different when coming down to notions of belief or particular pieces of legislation. He is one of the most decent human beings that I have ever known.

The office we worked in together was a loosely put-together office sharing arrangement. As a legislator, he persuaded the House & Senate to pass a bill concerning home schooling.

I am quick to say to you how much Joe loved (and doubtless loves) the Constitution ... he had pieces of the original constitution in framed images all around his office ... while we differed about interpretations, we not only tolerated each others' points of view, we liked each other, and do, still.

Politically, we were almost poles apart ... in my estimation, he was the consummate ultra conservative ... he was, I think, more based in the constitution that are some of his present-day kindred ... and I was the moderate but always opened minded liberal who favored (and still does) the individual rights of all citizens, whoever they are. I've been that way, though with less development, since I was a young child who was taught by my Ohio-emigrant grandmother (a republican ... yes, the one who had me get my limber switches) to respect the party of Lincoln and of all people, generally. (I would add, today, however, that was a long time ago -- in my estimation, the party of Lincoln has since flushed that heritage down its crapper.)

Later, during post-divorce litigation, the issue of home schooling arose in a case that Joe was handling. He represented the "home schooler" ex-wife. The Oklahoma County judge hearing the case basically said on the record to that client (and I'm paraphrasing), "figure out which is most important to you, child custody or home schooling," since the judge didn't agree that home schooling was appropriate for whatever reason that I don't recall. I don't exactly recall the decision, but it was sufficient to give rise to an appeal to the Oklahoma Supreme Court, so the judge must have changed custody for that reason.

Joe and I were going down the building elevator one day and I asked him how his home-schooling litigation was going. To my amazement, he said that the ACLU had asked to participate as a friend of the court in the appeal; that they did; and were most supportive. The home schooler won the appeal, with the help of the ACLU.

What a country! As I said, the above does not present an analogous example of what I'm saying here about "bad speech," since Joe had, in my hearing, never said anything even close to what Sally Kern has said. But it it does illustrate how people who have very different points of view can be and remain good friends, and that remains the case as far as I'm concerned to this day. It's a matter of mutual respect for the persons involved, and for their rights to think for themselves and speak their minds.

The teaching point is that everyone's right to speak/advocate/whatever should be respected, even by those who have a point of view that would throttle our own right to speak/advocate/whatever, and that does get tough to stomach, and in those times those who advocate "free speech" find their own test. Stepping back a layer, though, that's part of the magnificence of our country ... even when the "bad" speech might come from those who would strip liberties from some of the rest.

Saying that, of course, does not for one second mean that one must "like" the narrow-minded pip-squeaks who would pass laws that narrow the liberties of others who disagree with them, even if their intent is not reciprocated. When I was about 7 or 8, I did an 8" x 10" finger painting which most likely matched my older middle brother's description of the same (I am the baby of 3 brothers). I showed it to him and asked what he thought of it. He said, "It looks like grunt," that being slang for feces in those days. That critique, even if accurate, probably marked the end of my potential career as an artist, since I still remember it today.

Silly example? Sure. Teaching point: permit ugly speech, develop a thick skin, and live on in America. About my damn brother ... if he wasn't so nice these days, I'd probably want to get even ... but as it has developed, I just love him to pieces. And I probably wasn't much of an artist, anyway.

In a family, time can heal all wounds and one might be loving the be-Jesus out of someone that was earlier considered to be mean. On the other hand, I've got other stories about my middle brother ... but, whoops, that takes me way off topic, the point being:

We are a family. One attacks "reverse racism" without sounding racist themselves by acceptance of the other, even if they don't accept you. And, I think, that is the point of the Gay Pride events.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thunder, I think that you are really telling us more detail than we want to know and you really ought to look over your shoulder for a switching from your mom of grandmother. Your personal business is yours alone, if you catch my drift, and I hope that before the evening was though you hashed all of the personal stuff out and concluded, "I'm glad that I went." Of course, that is for you to say.

[USG'60]

I have danced a million times with lady friends with whom I wasn't in love. But your respect for his having a chance with another guy was admirable. Glad things were OK in the end. It was kinda neat to see how you chatted there. I pictured your whippin' out a Big Chief tablet and passing it back and forth. Sometimes technology really does helps. Did you go to the parade?

[Thunder]

No, not going to the parade. Been working with rooting and theming the phone.

[Larry OKC]

Wait... What's wrong with drinking and having fun? I don't understand that part. I was just saying that I'd rather experience the drunken part and not always skipping that to pre-hangover-headache. I think you guys are misunderstanding something or...I dunno. ...

Thunder, I think it was this that prompted their concern & responses:

Why am I not drunk. :-(

Instant headache for all that booze. NO FUN!!! I'd like to be drunk and not remember what the hell I was doing. *sighs*

That is different than having a couple of drinks to "loosen up". I personally have never understood those that say they didn't have a good time if they can remember what happened. But I am a non-drinker (nothing against it per se, when it done responsibly, just never acquired the taste for it).

[Architect2010]

Welp, PRIDE is over. And it was amazing. Don't know if anyone else knew, but there was a random 35+ people pool party at the Hyatt around 2 in the morning tonight. An underwear only pool party.

Gotta love it.

[rcjunkie]

Welp, PRIDE is over. And it was amazing. Don't know if anyone else knew, but there was a random 35+ people pool party at the Hyatt around 2 in the morning tonight. An underwear only pool party.Gotta love it.

Now if the doesn't make your Momma proud, I don't don't know what will!!!!