Preftakes Block

[UnFrSaKn]

Will this be the demolition technique?

[Village]

Will this be the demolition technique?

Just wearing this makes me want to put on a hardhat,
How would that even be possible?

(And yes the red brick building was the one with finger prints under the handle, i'll try to get close and snap some of it later.)

[UnFrSaKn]

July 7 1975



August 7 1951, Terminal Building in middle.

[UnFrSaKn]

May 22 1980

"The 50 year old Black Hotel awaits construction work that will change it into a modern office condominium."

[Pete]

Wow. Thanks, Will.

Cool and depressing at the same time.

[UnFrSaKn]

June 7 1978

Photo by Doug Hoke.

"Broken windows mark early morning fire at old Black Hotel."

[shawnw]

I never realized how much the Hotel Black sign looked like the bus station sign (or was it vice versa), why didn't we save THAT sign during the reno for future use?

[Pete]

Ben Felder of the Gazette is tweeting live for the Board of Adjustment hearing on the fate of the bus station:

https://twitter.com/benfelder_okg

[Pete]

Board of Adjustment just voted 4-1 to uphold the decision of the DDRC to allow the demolition of the bus station.

OKC remains perfect in their demolition record (or perhaps perfectly awful).


Shadid & Co. will now take the matter to district court.

[Spartan]

Again, I am glad for Shadid's valiant effort here. He is obviously wasting his time and energy, but at least the history books will remember 1 solitary person who tried to do something about this.

I really wish he would instead invest his time (and now legal resources) to make changes to OKC's code. I would argue that the code is more sufficient for HP than its interpretation, but evidently we have some holes that need to be more clear.

It would also be more beneficial to direct this energy toward the mayor and city manager. DDRC has literally purged pro-HP members recently. That comes from the top, not from within, where the rank and file have gotten the message loud and clear to NOT stand for HP.

[OKCRT]

I guess it just doesn't make financial sense to save the bus station and turn it into a diner. Sounds cool but big money has other ideas. That seems to be a perfect spot for a real diner but maybe I'm wrong.

[bombermwc]

Again, I am glad for Shadid's valiant effort here. He is obviously wasting his time and energy, but at least the history books will remember 1 solitary person who tried to do something about this.

I really wish he would instead invest his time (and now legal resources) to make changes to OKC's code. I would argue that the code is more sufficient for HP than its interpretation, but evidently we have some holes that need to be more clear.

It would also be more beneficial to direct this energy toward the mayor and city manager. DDRC has literally purged pro-HP members recently. That comes from the top, not from within, where the rank and file have gotten the message loud and clear to NOT stand for HP.

I definitely agree in most situations. But I don't really understand the hubbub about the bus station. I don't have a HP background or anything so this is all totally just opinion, but the bus station always seemed like a very ugly design that didn't even serve it's intended purpose very well. It's always felt like a crappy structure to me that could do with a good dozing. The historic elements are so lightly sprinkled in the structure, it just doesn't seem like it has what it would need to qualify to be preserved, not to mention that we didn't have any major historical thing happen there. The Walnut bridge had more history than the bus station, but we rebuilt it without much fluff (granted there's more to that story....but there's also a lot more to the bridge's story in terms of Deep Deuce's history).

So maybe I've missed something major here??? If so, could someone enlighten me? And I don't mean that sarcastically, I honestly don't understand the significance of the bus station....and I would bet there are plenty more like me here.

[Pete]

I think the point is to at least slow down the express train of demolitions.

As it stands now, there is absolutely zero resistance to demolishing any structure in OKC. Lots of hand-wringing and talk, but in the end the approval rate is 100%.

This Preftakes Block just demonstrates how the collective will has been broken. We are talking about NINE historic buildings to be scraped all at once and:

1. Our own planning department only recommends saving ONE of them
2. The Chamber hands out flyers and a petition to destroy at a mayor's speech
3. The only real argument in favor is that the buildings 'aren't economically feasible', yet the owners themselves were responsible for running out tenants and the buildings into the ground, never even tried to get grants or TIF funds... And that was viewed as a completely acceptable reason
4. The DDRC approves 30 days after filing
5. Preservation Oklahoma -- the group which very existence is to save such buildings -- doesn't even bother to appeal to the BOA
6. The BOA upholds as they always do, and it wasn't even a close vote


If not for Shadid, nine historic buildings would likely be coming down only 30 DAYS after the idea was first proposed!

Things have been getting easier and easier and at least now with Shadid, developers have to consider the fact that there will be a fight and likely long delays.

That's a pretty big thing, even though this building in particular will almost certainly not be saved.

[gopokes88]

I gotta echo bombers sentiment here. It seems like every building that's old = historic. Seems to me were demoshling a bunch of old buildings for a new tower. Is it becoming a we've lost so many building already we have to try and save everything from now on historic or not? Save it because it's old mentality?

[bchris02]

I gotta echo bombers sentiment here. It seems like every building that's old = historic. Seems to me were demoshling a bunch of old buildings for a new tower. Is it becoming a we've lost so many building already we have to try and save everything from now on historic or not? Save it because it's old mentality?

First, there is a lot of potential in these old buildings. Go to most other cities and their coolest, hippest districts are at least partially comprised of revitalized older building stock. Second, its not like OKC has a lack of empty land in its core to build on. There is no reason when there is surface parking or even a grass lot a block or two away.

[BDP]

First, there is a lot of potential in these old buildings. Go to most other cities and their coolest, hippest districts are at least partially comprised of revitalized older building stock. Second, its not like OKC has a lack of empty land in its core to build on. There is no reason when there is surface parking or even a grass lot a block or two away.

And third, the majority of these buildings are not being torn down for a tower. They are being torn down for parking garages.

[baralheia]

And third, the majority of these buildings are not being torn down for a tower. They are being torn down for parking garages.

Yeah, that's the most difficult part of this for me to swallow. I could handle that bitter pill if demolishing those buildings paved the way for a higher and better use, like a multi-tower development. But no, they want to destroy history for freaking parking garages. :P

[bchris02]

Yeah, that's the most difficult part of this for me to swallow. I could handle that bitter pill if demolishing those buildings paved the way for a higher and better use, like a multi-tower development. But no, they want to destroy history for freaking parking garages. :P

Exactly. In any other city, they could integrate the parking into the tower. By doing that, they could actually save the entire block AND add a bit of height to the tower to appease height junkies and have a greater impact on the skyline.

[soondoc]

Is it too late as in game over for them to modify this tower and garages? Could they still add in the parking into the tower and thus allow more development on this block? Anyone who knows I would love to hear if that is possible. I am so tired of these city officials and what is going on these days. I thought all my frustrations were at the Capitol and how they are holding the city back from reaching its potential because of their stupid laws, but our city leaders are giving them a run for their money lately and its a bit disgusting.

[dankrutka]

As others have said, once renovated into a Republic Gastropub (which was discussed) or something similar, this could have been an incredible spot that generated actual street activity. Many of the coolest spots in OKC are in buildings that had waaaayyyyy less going for them than the bus station (see 9th street, Pump Bar, etc). Instead, this new proposal will fill the area with parking garages pretty much guaranteeing it will be a dead area for OKC during non-working hours for maybe the next 50 years. This part of OKC is making a commitment to choosing cars over people at a time when all data indicates trends moving in the other direction. Furthermore, I'd actually argue that even old average buildings add to the urban fabric in valuable ways, especially in areas with lots of new construction. This area will feel sterile and generic when it's completed. A place that could be anywhere. And people will drive their cars in and out of the parking garages without interacting with the area. The bus station could have been a place for community. That combined with losing the other buildings that all added character results in OKC's CBD becoming a bit more generic and lifeless.

[UnFrSaKn]

Most people who frequent this board are pretty familiar about the iconic buildings that have been lost to urban renewal and the question tends to pop up, "How could they ever do such a thing!?" Well absolutely nothing has changed in this city despite many of the people involved decades ago are dead now or in their later years. The disposable mentality hasn't and probably won't ever change. Just look at what's happening with this block and their reasoning for doing what they are. Perhaps when the 20-30 somethings who appreciate this type of thing decide to get involved in city politics and make their voices heard it will be different. Start buying up properties and preserving them. Don't rely on corporations wih big money to care about what the public wants.

[rte66man]

As others have said, once renovated into a Republic Gastropub (which was discussed) or something similar, this could have been an incredible spot that generated actual street activity. Many of the coolest spots in OKC are in buildings that had waaaayyyyy less going for them than the bus station (see 9th street, Pump Bar, etc). Instead, this new proposal will fill the area with parking garages pretty much guaranteeing it will be a dead area for OKC during non-working hours for maybe the next 50 years. This part of OKC is making a commitment to choosing cars over people at a time when all data indicates trends moving in the other direction. Furthermore, I'd actually argue that even old average buildings add to the urban fabric in valuable ways, especially in areas with lots of new construction. This area will feel sterile and generic when it's completed. A place that could be anywhere. And people will drive their cars in and out of the parking garages without interacting with the area. The bus station could have been a place for community. That combined with losing the other buildings that all added character results in OKC's CBD becoming a bit more generic and lifeless.

THIS is the explanation that makes sense to me. Unfortunately, not being a resident of OKC (I live in a suburb) means my voice would likely be ignored at City Hall. However, I am motivated to lobby my OKC friends to become aware and GET INVOLVED!

[Canoe]

Never mind please delete Pete.

[Spartan]

If not for Shadid, nine historic buildings would likely be coming down only 30 DAYS after the idea was first proposed!

Things have been getting easier and easier and at least now with Shadid, developers have to consider the fact that there will be a fight and likely long delays.

That's a pretty big thing, even though this building in particular will almost certainly not be saved.

Holy crap, that just blows my mind. I give you hell when we disagree (but only because of the leadership role you serve for OKC), and most of the time your most salient points go under-appreciated. I just wanted to point out that the simple fact that 9 buildings were to come down within just 30 days really underscores what kind of "process" we are upholding in OKC. Where most cities have "planning" we've got the Chamber express lane.

Also keep in mind it's not even Preservation Oklahoma, but rather Ed Shadid - the Council Champion of lost causes.

Look at the big picture, never just one specific scenario. The big picture is pretty disappointing, because we are no longer taking two steps forward and just one backward, like we used to lament. This is just becoming a shuffle and I don't think we're going to come out ahead, per se.