Preftakes Block

[Kerry]

I might get criticized for this, but I also think that their plaza space along Sheridan at the new headquarters is too much. Ideally, the garden wing would abut Sheridan with retail along it. There would still be adequate plaza space directly south of the rotunda and between the tower and the Colcord.

You won't get any critizism from me. It is better than what was there before so it is a step in the right direction. I just hope future projects are more urban in design.

[Rover]

You won't get any critizism from me. It is better than what was there before so it is a step in the right direction. I just hope future projects are more urban in design.

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

[Kerry]

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

Rover, I have gotten out and experienced the rest of the world. Urban buildings define the space around them. It took me some self-education and I suggest you try it as well. As I have recommended to others, go pick up a copy of 101 Things I Learned in Architecture School. The author does a pretty good job of explaining urban design and suburban design and it doesn't have anything to do with what part of town buidlings are in. He also explains positive and negative space which might help you a little. Just because it is downtown doesn't make it an urban design. Let me ask you this, which is more urban - Devon Tower or Transco Tower in Houston?

[MikeOKC]

Rover, I have gotten out and experienced the rest of the world. Urban buildings define the space around them. It took me some self-education and I suggest you try it as well. As I have recommended to others, go pick up a copy of 101 Things I Learned in Architecture School. The author does a pretty good job of explaining urban design and suburban design and it doesn't have anything to do with what part of town buidlings are in. Just because it is downtown doesn't make it an urban design. Let me ask you this, which is more urban - Devon Tower or Transco Tower in Houston?

I know you weren't asking me, but I would definitely say Williams Tower (the old Transco tower). It's always reminded me of a modern Empire State Building - especially that view straight up Westheimer. It's very urban - and in the burbs!

[Kerry]

I know you weren't asking me, but I would definitely say Williams Tower (the old Transco tower). It's always reminded me of a modern Empire State Building - especially that view straight up Westheimer. It's very urban - and in the burbs!

It was trick question. Neither is urban. They are just tall. Urban/Suburban isn't about building height. It is about the ground space around the buildings.

[MikeOKC]

It was trick question. Neither is urban. They are just tall.

Really? I see Williams Tower as very urban. It would not be out of place in Manhattan. Of course, truth be told I don't know a lot about this. What makes that tower not "urban?"

[Kerry]

Really? I see Williams Tower as very urban. It would not be out of place in Manhattan. Of course, truth be told I don't know a lot about this. What makes that tower not "urban?"

Give me a minute. I'll scan a page from the book referenced above and post it. It made it pretty easy for me to understand.

Here we go. These are the pictures and will type in the text myself.

--------------



Figure-ground theory states that the space that results from placing figures
should be considered as carefully as the figures themselves. Space is called
negative space if it is unshaped after the placement of figures. It is positive
space if it has a shape.





We move through negative spaces and dwell in positive spaces. The shape and
qualities of architectural spaces greatly influence human experience and behavior,
for we inhabit the spaces of our built environment and the solid wall, roofs, and
columns that shape it. Positive spaces are almost always preferred by people for
lingering and social interaction. negative spaces tend to promote movement rather
than dwelling in place.





Suburban buildings are freestanding objects in space. Urban buildings are often
shapers of space. When we create buildings today, we frequesntly focus our
efforts on their shapes, with the shapes of outdoor space a rather accidental
leftover. These outdoor spaces, such as those typically found in suburbs, are
negative spaces because the buildings around them are aren't arranged to lend
shape to the spaces in between.

Urban building, however, are often designed under the opposite assumptions:
building shapes can be secondary to the shape of the public space, to the extent
that some urban buildings are almost literally "deformed" so that plazas, courtyards,
and squares that abut them may be given positive shapes.

[mcca7596]

You are kidding, right? Is the only "urban" design something that is boxy and right up to the sidewalk? People need to get out and experience the rest of the world and its cities a little.

I am not arguing that urban buildings cannot incorporate open space and be successful from a design and activity standpoint.

In the context of Oklahoma City's small downtown however, there is ample space already. If the Myriad gardens were right in the middle of the CBD, it would be enough green space by itself (save for trees on sidewalks) until you get south of I-40.

Just my opinion...

It is also just about experiencing a different environment, there are really only two places in the entire state to experience true density. If one needs to constantly have open space, simply go outside the 1/4 mile radius of the CBD.

[HOT ROD]

I hope whatever Devon has in mind it doesn't include plazas, flower beds, and/or fountains.

+1

[Chicken In The Rough]

Back in the early 80s, I think, I saw a television documentary about urban plazas. It cited Fidelity Plaza for its excellent design and its success, and the Murrah Plaza for its complete failure. The different was striking and obvious. Fidelity Plaza was crowded with people at all times during the workday, while the Murrah Plaza was virtually unused. I think small, well-designed plazas are great. They give people a place to sit and eat their lunches. They provide room for street performers, cafes, sidewalk vendors, and other activities. And, they give us a spot for civic art installations. These things give downtown its vibrancy and make it more attractive. I agree with the general consensus here, however. We don't need any more large, sweeping, suburban-style plazas in the downtown area.

[UnFrSaKn]

This project in Tulsa seems similar, at least to how the sites looks now, to the block West of Devon. Or at least what potential there is.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...50822&allcom=1

[Spartan]

!!!

That site is nothing like the Preftakes block. It's almost entirely vacant. It's only building of consequence burned down, which was very sad. The Preftakes block, as you fully know, is full of buildings of consequence that should remain. Must remain.

The buildings there now are more impressive than that proposed One Place development..

[UnFrSaKn]

Yes, I do know. I walked and filmed the entire block. I think I've firmly placed myself in the keep-what-we-have camp of preservationists. That was the whole point of doing the video. By saying "seems similar", they're both on the edge of downtown with proposed new development planned. Keeping the buildings worth saving, what is your perfect vision of what should be done with it, as compared to the artist rendering of what they're doing do theirs in Tulsa? Both are likely to have something shiny and new there are they not?

[Spartan]

Yeah, I know you know what is on the site, and I know how you feel about preservation, I was just hoping you'd extrapolate more on that...

So in terms of relation to downtown, I do certainly see the similarities.

[UnFrSaKn]

In terms of something new being built there, there is not that much room compared to the block in Tulsa, if it's that empty. I don't know how you would build anything new of any impact to the skyline without having to do some surgery.
Here's that block again.





What could go here that could incorporate what's already there, but fit somewhere between the buildings?

[ZYX2]

As you probably know, I'm from Tulsa. That block across from the BOK is truly not worth saving.

[ZYX2]

If you look on Google Earth, you will see that there is only one building there. One....very different from the block across from Devon.

[UnFrSaKn]

Street View

I was just going by the picture. The block is smaller than it looks. I assumed the other buildings further back were in the same block.

[ZYX2]

Yeah, I see where it could be easy to make that mistake.

[UnFrSaKn]

[ZYX2]

Whoa, look at the BOK!

[shane453]

It may look like very little space in those parking lots on the site, but when you compare those to how much space is taken up by Oklahoma Tower or even other buildings on the same site such as the Auto Hotel, it is pretty easy to imagine how some new construction could fit in.

[UnFrSaKn]

From March 16 2011

[Spartan]

Wow. Beautiful photos.

[metro]

Anyone have any pics from when the top of the Hotel Black pictured above had the mini golf on the roof in operation?