County Jail

[citywokchinesefood]

Has there ever been a study or reporting done on how much damage, or any kind of personal harm has occurred in the blocks surrounding the current jail (or any other jail, just to get data points) by escapees?

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...9%29-Final.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25067409

https://frw.studenttheses.ub.rug.nl/..._-_23_ap_1.pdf

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-li...ding-community

[jn1780]

Has there ever been a study or reporting done on how much damage, or any kind of personal harm has occurred in the blocks surrounding the current jail (or any other jail, just to get data points) by escapees?

I would also like to see the data on inmates who immediately commit crimes 'immediately' after being released. That crime to get them back in could happen anywhere in the city within a few days of release. In terms of property damage, I bet it is slim to none.

[TheTravellers]

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...9%29-Final.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25067409

https://frw.studenttheses.ub.rug.nl/..._-_23_ap_1.pdf

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-li...ding-community

Thanks for those!

So here's the TL;DR for 3 of them (haven't read/downloaded the jstor one, have to log in to the library to do that, it looks like):

5 detention facilities in NY have not had observable impact on property values or crime rates

Houses within a 300 meter radius of a regular prison had a 3% decrease in property values short-term in The Netherlands

Escapees do not significantly increase the community's crime rate and crimes by visitors were also insignificant, property values may go down short-term, but other factors are more important long-term, prisons do not have a significant economic impact on the communities in which they're sited (7 prisons nationwide studied, I believe), except sometimes possibly helping the economy due to the prison needing workers.

[jn1780]

Thanks for those!

So here's the TL;DR for 3 of them (haven't read/downloaded the jstor one, have to log in to the library to do that, it looks like):

5 detention facilities in NY have not had observable impact on property values or crime rates

Houses within a 300 meter radius of a regular prison had a 3% decrease in property values short-term in The Netherlands

Escapees do not significantly increase the community's crime rate and crimes by visitors were also insignificant, property values may go down short-term, but other factors are more important long-term, prisons do not have a significant economic impact on the communities in which they're sited (7 prisons nationwide studied, I believe), except sometimes possibly helping the economy due to the prison needing workers.

The last three are involving prisons and not jails. If what Bomber is stating is happening in large numbers, then I would want there to be some more visibility on the issue so that these people can get the help they need. Another reason to not put the jail in the middle of nowhere.

[bombermwc]

And that's a very important distinction. A Jail and a Prison are not the same thing. You would need to find studies on jails. Prisons are long term. These folks have already been sentenced and are serving their time. Think of their state as more "stable" in that they know what's going on. The county jail is a transition facility (or that's what it's SUPPOSED to be) while people wait for their court date. That's a MUCH more frequent revolving door.

[TornadoKegan]

Looks like the Design Proposal is out
https://www.news9.com/story/65df262e...sed-on-tuesday

[cinnamonjock]

People also serve their sentence in the county jail if it is for less than a year, fwiw.

[jn1780]

I guess News9 fired the proof reader in favor of new storm chaser vehicles....

The Citizen's Bond Oversight Committee discussed plans for the new Oklahoma County Detention Center at a meeting on Tuesday.
Documents from the meeting show construction of the jail could begin as soon as June 2025.
The documents say that the behavioral care center will be partially paid for with ARPA funds that are subject to a deadline.
Designers said the goal is to begin building the center by the end of 2024
Committee members approved these initial plans and will send them to county commissioners.
Last week, County Commissioners voted to build the new jail on East Grand Boulevard near Del City.

I'm assuming its this summer, right?

[barrettd]

I guess News9 fired the proof reader in favor of new storm chaser vehicles....



I'm assuming its this summer, right?

Seems like they're talking about 2 facilities. The jail, and a behavioral care center.

[Midtowner]

I lived across the street from the current jail for 5 years. I never had an issue or even heard of someone having an issue. They'll be fine.

Re the zoning, I don't believe a municipality can tell a superior political division, whether it's the state, federal government, or county, what it can build or whether it can build on city land. This will likely be a boon to the area. There will be bail bondsmen and attorneys office wanting to be close by. It's very unfortunate that they're not at least relocating some of the criminal courts to this land. If it was just the in-custody arraignment courts or preliminary hearing judges, they could save a small fortune.

[TheTravellers]

...
Re the zoning, I don't believe a municipality can tell a superior political division, whether it's the state, federal government, or county, what it can build or whether it can build on city land. ...

Dillon's Rule, right?

[jn1780]

Seems like they're talking about 2 facilities. The jail, and a behavioral care center.

My bad. Didn't read carefully.

[Midtowner]

Dillon's Rule, right?

I'm sure I've heard it called that at some point.. but don't recall it, though I did take a course in law school on state and local government.

[barrettd]

My bad. Didn't read carefully.

It was poorly written, though.

[bombermwc]

Its so much more expensive to do these sprawling one level facilities. That's really short sighted of them. The construction expense alone for exterior materials is so much more.

[Midtowner]

Its so much more expensive to do these sprawling one level facilities. That's really short sighted of them. The construction expense alone for exterior materials is so much more.

I guess it comes down to the elevator cost and the time delays with the elevators? Maybe? I can tell you, no matter what I want to do with clients at the jail, it seems to take eons to bring someone down to the meeting rooms.

That said, it's not going to be better when you have a sprawling campus 20 years from now and have to walk the prisoners 1/4 mile to see their attorney.

[DoctorTaco]

I guess it comes down to the elevator cost and the time delays with the elevators? Maybe? I can tell you, no matter what I want to do with clients at the jail, it seems to take eons to bring someone down to the meeting rooms.

That said, it's not going to be better when you have a sprawling campus 20 years from now and have to walk the prisoners 1/4 mile to see their attorney.

The one-story nature of the new facility is completely intentional. Having things on one level makes it easier to have (multiple?) fully-enclosed outdoor spaces. At present the jail allows for no recreation/exercise/fresh air whatsoever which is wildly inhumane.

[RGSR]

The one-story nature of the new facility is completely intentional. Having things on one level makes it easier to have (multiple?) fully-enclosed outdoor spaces. At present the jail allows for no recreation/exercise/fresh air whatsoever which is wildly inhumane.

A new jail will not change anything. It will be a new facility that will abused and vandalized by inmates. Routine maintenance will be ignored by the folks in charge. A big city county jail isnÂ’t meant to be a sprawling prison, itÂ’s a jail. Name another county government that gets only 32 years out of a brand new jail. They will continue to have the same understaffing problems until they pay employees accordingly. The same inmates in poor health will be at the new jail. A new problem will arise that some prisons have and that is contraband being dropped from drones or thrown over the fence! Also there will be some escaped attempts since they donÂ’t have to scale down a tower! Good luck, what a wast of public funds!

[bison34]

A new jail will not change anything. It will be a new facility that will abused and vandalized by inmates. Routine maintenance will be ignored by the folks in charge. A big city county jail isnÂ’t meant to be a sprawling prison, itÂ’s a jail. Name another county government that gets only 32 years out of a brand new jail. They will continue to have the same understaffing problems until they pay employees accordingly. The same inmates in poor health will be at the new jail. A new problem will arise that some prisons have and that is contraband being dropped from drones or thrown over the fence! Also there will be some escaped attempts since they donÂ’t have to scale down a tower! Good luck, what a wast of public funds!

Man, so basically no Public funds should be used for anything, given your logic. Why even try.

[TheTravellers]

A new jail will not change anything. It will be a new facility that will abused and vandalized by inmates. Routine maintenance will be ignored by the folks in charge. A big city county jail isnÂ’t meant to be a sprawling prison, itÂ’s a jail. Name another county government that gets only 32 years out of a brand new jail. They will continue to have the same understaffing problems until they pay employees accordingly. The same inmates in poor health will be at the new jail. A new problem will arise that some prisons have and that is contraband being dropped from drones or thrown over the fence! Also there will be some escaped attempts since they donÂ’t have to scale down a tower! Good luck, what a wast of public funds!

[RGSR]

That’s not what I said! Read it!

[RGSR]

I said it’s a waste of money, period!

[TheTravellers]

I said it’s a waste of money, period!

There is no choice, it's pretty much build a new jail or have the federal government take it over and do whatever they need to do with it. Not even going to waste my time and address your other arguments because even though you have a couple of relevant points, you don't seem to grasp the whole situation.

[jn1780]

The jail was poorly built from day 1. The discussion should be how do they make sure it doesn't happen again.

[TheTravellers]

The jail was poorly built from day 1. The discussion should be how do they make sure it doesn't happen again.

Step 1 - hire an architectural firm that has actually built jails before and do due diligence on all the jails they've built to make sure they're the right firm.
Step 2 - allocate permanent maintenance funds that are enough to cover costs (virtually) forever.
Step 3 - hire enough competent personnel to run it.

Just do the right thing, free of corruption, kickbacks, political favors, etc. and spend enough money to do it all right.