Widgets Magazine
Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 8910111213
Results 301 to 324 of 324

Thread: County Jail

  1. #301

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I wonder what those in Deer Creek will be thinking when it comes to law enforcement protection. For several years Whetsel made sure those in DC were covered, now I just don’t see how the SO can truly sustain adequate field operations to truly patrol areas.

    Got to be some residents thinking thst annexing into Edmond (keeping their existing fire dept, schools, and water service) may be the better long term move...
    I'm not sure if Edmond would be willing to take that on. They can barely fund high priority projects needed to alleviate congestion, expand the trails, and build desired downtown projects like the Performing Arts Center. Traffic is increasing out there and road widenings are needed soon, and a new police substation would be a must.

  2. #302

    Default Re: County Jail

    Those who bought homes in the Deer Creek area placed a higher value on schools than public safety. Neither the City of OKC nor Edmond is going to provide police protection without a revenue commitment. Deer Creek isn't incorporated, so that discussion isn't possible.

  3. #303

    Default Re: County Jail

    None of our metro area cities should take on that kind of maintenance for people who specifically and knowingly decided to live outside of them. They made that bed themselves and could have chosen differently.

  4. #304

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    None of our metro area cities should take on that kind of maintenance for people who specifically and knowingly decided to live outside of them. They made that bed themselves and could have chosen differently.
    That's your opinion and many cities think differently. This is part of the metro area and there is no reason modern, city like infrastructure can't be built here. Before long this area will hardly be considered the fringes of the metro. Areas outside of Cashion, Okarche, Shawnee, Purcell are slowly but surely becoming the fringes of the city. The previous ones like Jones and El Reno and Guthrie will be swallowing up by sprawl and to me that is an exciting prospect to the dismay of those here like no1club and GoGators or pretty much a large majority of this forum I am guessing.

    Clark County(NV) has built its own freeways. Many other counties can build adequate infrastructure. I am not suggesting Edmond takes this area on, but they have their own problems and went from a mayor who supported growth in Edmond to almost the complete opposite. Like him or not he is the status quo of endless strip malls and cookie cutter development, which I appreciate for what it is worth but would like more unique and more dense developments.

    Unfortunately as shown Oklahoma no longer can even plan in the future for new freeways and extensions of existing ones(SW EXT) let alone thinking down the line with ROW and light-rail lines.

  5. #305

    Default Re: County Jail

    This discussion is a little off-topic with regard to the jail, but very interesting with regard to urban planning, sprawl, providing services, etc.

    For "modern, city like infrastructure" to be built in an unincorporated area, that area would have to be incorporated (think Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, Nichols Hills, etc.) in order to contract and pay for streets & utilities. Not just the capital cost, but the perpetual obligation for maintenance. A governmental taxing authority would be necessary to guarantee a revenue source through water bills, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Otherwise, you'd be asking OKC or Edmond to annex that area, which won't happen. We learned our lesson in the mid-20th century with Stanley Draper's unrestrained annexation which gave us 600+ square miles which our population base can't adequately fund as it is.

    They wanted to live in the country. That means rough roads, well water, septic systems, rural electricity and the like.

  6. #306

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    This discussion is a little off-topic with regard to the jail, but very interesting with regard to urban planning, sprawl, providing services, etc.

    For "modern, city like infrastructure" to be built in an unincorporated area, that area would have to be incorporated (think Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, Nichols Hills, etc.) in order to contract and pay for streets & utilities. Not just the capital cost, but the perpetual obligation for maintenance. A governmental taxing authority would be necessary to guarantee a revenue source through water bills, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Otherwise, you'd be asking OKC or Edmond to annex that area, which won't happen. We learned our lesson in the mid-20th century with Stanley Draper's unrestrained annexation which gave us 600+ square miles which our population base can't adequately fund as it is.

    They wanted to live in the country. That means rough roads, well water, septic systems, rural electricity and the like.
    This is not correct.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1137.../data=!3m1!1e3

    That is unincorporated and still has infrastructure better than many parts of OKC proper and many other cities.

    Maps of unincorporated Clark County: http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/CCCompla...CCcompMap.aspx

    I believe such examples exists in counties around DFW and I know Maricopa(AZ) and many counties in SoCal are the same. How they get that done? I don't know. My knowledge of urban planning doesn't go this far... yet. Now that I think about it, it is likely something I'll research over the weekend.

    Saying "they wanted to live in country" might be true and some wanted to live in an area with good schools, newer homes, and a better part of the metro overall. Those that want the country life ought to be ready and willing to move further out if they wish the constantly live on the fringe of the metro. That is part of the compromise one should make, especially in America(increasingly other countries where suburban sprawl is becoming prominent even in Europe), knowing that the benefits of country living and being close to a large metro is the inevitable fact the farmland around your tract housing will be turned into more tract housing and strip malls.

  7. #307

  8. #308

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    This is not correct.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1137.../data=!3m1!1e3

    That is unincorporated and still has infrastructure better than many parts of OKC proper and many other cities.

    Maps of unincorporated Clark County: http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/CCCompla...CCcompMap.aspx

    I believe such examples exists in counties around DFW and I know Maricopa(AZ) and many counties in SoCal are the same. How they get that done? I don't know. My knowledge of urban planning doesn't go this far... yet. Now that I think about it, it is likely something I'll research over the weekend.

    Saying "they wanted to live in country" might be true and some wanted to live in an area with good schools, newer homes, and a better part of the metro overall. Those that want the country life ought to be ready and willing to move further out if they wish the constantly live on the fringe of the metro. That is part of the compromise one should make, especially in America(increasingly other countries where suburban sprawl is becoming prominent even in Europe), knowing that the benefits of country living and being close to a large metro is the inevitable fact the farmland around your tract housing will be turned into more tract housing and strip malls.
    No, I AM correct. If you want infrastructure like a city, you need a city to provide them. You can find outliers around the country where quality is good, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule. We're talking Oklahoma County here, and it doesn't have the money to provide those services, and adjacent cities (OKC, Edmond) aren't going to provide them.

  9. #309

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    No, I AM correct. If you want infrastructure like a city, you need a city to provide them. You can find outliers around the country where quality is good, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule. We're talking Oklahoma County here, and it doesn't have the money to provide those services, and adjacent cities (OKC, Edmond) aren't going to provide them.
    I just gave examples that disprove your theory. Examples of unincorporated areas right next to cities that are developed and booming need to be taken into account. These are only examples I know of. I also believe Miami and Orlando have areas like that as well. Just because Oklahoma County doesn't have money in no way means it can't turn that around. Oklahoma needs higher taxes and more revenue. Oklahoma needs to get off the cheap train.

  10. #310

    Default Re: County Jail

    Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.

    Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.

  11. #311

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.
    I'm not so sure it is an exception though. I don't know enough to know whether this is a rule or exception, but from my experience, there are many unincorporated areas that have expansive infrastructure pieces just like you would see in major cities. Six lane roads and such. Now Clark County building its own freeways is certainly an exception and I'll admit that. OK County should do the same. There are ways to get it done and excuses why it can't be done. I would pick the former.

  12. #312

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.
    They sure didn't mind expanding every road in NW OKC.

    My opinion: Oklahoma is a state that is cheap. I am generalizing that and I'll readily admit it is nothing more than my opinion.

  13. #313

    Default Re: County Jail

    Why would Edmond not want to annex Deer Creek? I thought sprawl was good and made cities money? Why wouldn't Deer Creek make Edmond more money? Wouldn't annexing Deer Creek create a ton of new revenue and subsidize the downtown Edmond projects?

    Unless...

  14. #314

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    Why would Edmond not want to annex Deer Creek? I thought sprawl was good and made cities money? Why wouldn't Deer Creek make Edmond more money? Wouldn't annexing Deer Creek create a ton of new revenue and subsidize the downtown Edmond projects?

    Unless...
    You can argue your personal opinions all you want. Making a bunch of non-statements doesn't help and as like a vast majority of your comments, the endless sarcasm leaves a lot out of the equation.

  15. #315

    Default Re: County Jail

    What am i leaving out? Is sprawl revenue positive or revenue negative? if it is good why shouldn't Edmond annex it and receive all of that Deer Creek revenue?

  16. #316

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudDeckMedia View Post
    Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.

    Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.
    If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.

  17. #317

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    What am i leaving out? Is sprawl revenue positive or revenue negative? if it is good why shouldn't Edmond annex it and receive all of that Deer Creek revenue?
    I'm not going to debate this with you here. I have already made points against that and if you wish to rehash it it in the future you will have a chance. Wait until I inevitably bring it up in a more relevant thread. Not like the conversation that was going on was anymore relevant. I only responded to your post to point out you seem to use sarcasm in a majority of your posts skipping over points you are unable to address. I personally find it annoying but whatever. To each their own.

    To rehash: my overall point was respond to cloudmedias post which I interpreted as saying expansive infrastructure is non existent in incorporated areas. Though there are many unincorporated areas where this isn't the case and I understand that, given the context of this particular area and its proximity to a major metro area that is growing like crazy, I know of several examples where there are 4-6 lane roads, sidewalks, 'dense' development(by suburban standards), and in one case a freeway built by the county itself. The freeway aspect is an exception and one I think should be emulated by OK County. Agree or disagree it makes no difference as the chances of that happening are slim to none and for reasons I suspect other than a lack of money. Then the response was "well those are rare cases" but I don't believe this to be true. Keeping this in context, I bet there are many more examples than I gave.

    One thing you conveniently forget is the astronomical costs of providing infrastructure in dense areas which is eclipsing a billion a mile for rail in several different instances. Simply viewing this as x amount of people spending x amount of tax dollars as a result to their place of living is extremely disingenuous and not telling of the whole story. Much like how your induced demand arguments leave many variables out and uses cherry picked data. Anyways I believe I have created a thread about induced demand on this site. Otherwise I'll respond on another thread at a later date. I'm already way off topic.

  18. #318

    Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.
    This is about the cost of bringing public services to residents, not employers.

  19. Default Re: County Jail

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.
    You're assuming Edmond would grab that area.. Big assumption.

    Instead - I'd argue that the land being Oklahoma City made it possible if not likely that Paycomm located there. I doubt they would have located in unincorporated Oklahoma or Canadian county and i don't buy that they would have located in Edmond (they have lots of land already, but no HQ!! - see Heartland/Global Payment Systems).

    If OKC weren't as large, Paycomm would likely still want to locate in OKC, just would be closer in. Same with other OKC companies.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  20. #320

    Default County Jail Trust Takeover

    Surprised this hasn’t been posted here yet but the new sheriff per reports seems to want to hand off the jail:

    Oklahoma County Sheriff P.D. Taylor is giving the newly formed Jail Trust less than ten weeks to prepare to take over administration of the largest county jail in Oklahoma.

    But the county’s youngest trust is still forming with funding approved by county commissioners just last week.

    “We don’t want to do this wrong,” Jail Trust Chair Tricia Everest responded later in the day
    - https://freepressokc.com/sheriff-tak...do-this-wrong/

  21. #321

    Default Re: County Jail

    If 100 employees of County Sheriff have quit or retired since August, who exactly is staffing the jail?

  22. #322

  23. #323

    Default Re: County Jail

    This is going to be an epic level disaster. I see this getting much worse before it ever gets "better". Have to love seeing an elected law enforcement officer basically saying "I am taking my toys and going home, how dare you hold me accountable."

  24. #324

    Default Re: County Jail

    This is the best possible option. A local panel of talented people has been assembled instead of a group appointed by a federal judge. Federal control & oversight is the direction it was headed. P.D. Taylor is the latest of several sheriffs who were unable/unwilling to enact change, and he is undermining the necessary change brought by this panel. It speaks volumes that he almost simultaneously announced his 12/31/2019 final day and his reelection bid.

    I admire those on the Oklahoma County Criminal Justice Authority - a/k/a the "Jail Trust" - for undertaking this unpaid, mostly thankless, necessary responsibility.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 57
    Last Post: 11-12-2010, 07:43 PM
  2. Logan County Jail
    By jman253 in forum Suburban & Other OK Communities
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-24-2007, 10:22 AM
  3. Odd happenings at the Oklahoma County Courthouse
    By okcnative in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-06-2006, 09:16 PM
  4. Oklahoma City's expansion...
    By AFCM in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-06-2006, 01:32 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO