General Urban Development

[dmoor82]

Exactly, ljbab728. Having buildings up to the sidewalk/street is just a complete joke and not people-friendly. It also make it horrible on the landscaping and other designs.

Some truly Urban cities dont have the luxury of having plaza's and such,there just isnt the space,How is it a joke to have towers that butt up against streets?Seems more logical and urban too me!I Love what Devon has done here and it works for OKC but might not be feasible in other cities!

[Just the facts]

You guys need to look at that photo again. Those building are built out to the street.

[Rover]

Some people sure are dogmatic and take ONE principle of urban design and think regurgitating it makes them an expert. OKC is not New York City, Tokyo or Singapore. And they might be surprised how much diversity their is in those cities anyway. People need to see the world and get a dose of reality.

[Just the facts]

Some people sure are dogmatic and take ONE principle of urban design and think regurgitating it makes them an expert. OKC is not New York City, Tokyo or Singapore. And they might be surprised how much diversity their is in those cities anyway. People need to see the world and get a dose of reality.

A picture was posted showing what the person considered good urban design and then stated I would criticize it. If you look at the picture, the buildings are pushed out to the sidewalk. The picture validates what I said. I'm not sure what makes that hard to understand.

[ljbab728]

You guys need to look at that photo again. Those building are built out to the street.

I have been to and in those buildings. They aren't and have some plaza type areas. No more or less than Devon has.

[Just the facts]

I've been to them also - more than once, so I don't know what that proves. All I can say is look at the photo, those building start where the sidewalk ends. On the other side of those buildings the towers are right next to the street. All I am saying is Devon Tower is a great project and that it could have been a little better. I gave it 4 out of 5 stars. By comparison, I give Bass Pro 0 out of 5 stars. If you want to see 5 out of 5 check out NE 2nd. In fact, the just start calling that area NE2, as in , where do you live? Answer, NE2.

[OKCisOK4me]

I've been to them also - more than once, so I don't know what that proves. All I can say is look at the photo, those building start where the sidewalk ends. On the other side of those buildings the towers are right next to the street. All I am saying is Devon Tower is a great project and that it could have been a little better. I gave it 4 out of 5 stars. By comparison, I give Bass Pro 0 out of 5 stars. If you want to see 5 out of 5 check out NE 2nd. In fact, the just start calling that area NE2, as in , where do you live? Answer, NE2.

In this city, and elsewhere since it has happened, I think developers and architects, if given the proper space, will allow for buildings to be built away from the edge of the street due to domestic or foreign terrorism. That's just my take. I don't know if that's really true, but the safety of employees would be a concern.

[Rover]

I have been to and in those buildings. They aren't and have some plaza type areas. No more or less than Devon has.

A different perspective showing the open areas around the buildings.

[metro]

Where is that at?

[poe]

Where is that at?

San Francisco

[metro]

Anks. Don't think I noticed it last time in S.F.

[bluedogok]

In this city, and elsewhere since it has happened, I think developers and architects, if given the proper space, will allow for buildings to be built away from the edge of the street due to domestic or foreign terrorism. That's just my take. I don't know if that's really true, but the safety of employees would be a concern.

It is only a concern for government buildings, I have never had a commercial client address anything about the issue, they almost always want maximum yield from any piece of property. I worked on the new Federal building which was one of the first non-DOD buildings constructed under the Force Protection Guidelines and those have evolved since that building was designed and built.

[Just the facts]

A different perspective showing the open areas around the buildings.

Rover - you are going to lose 9 ways from Sunday on this. That space between the buildings is called the street. Do yourself a favor and go to Google Street view around these buildings. You will find the street, sidewalk, and building - all as close together as they could get it on every side. As for terrorism protection - I don't know how much the lawn in front of Devon Tower would keep a van from crashing into the lobby. However, a one or two story retail plaza would be guaranteed to stop it.

BTW - that last photo is over 20 years old because the Embarcadaro Freeway is still there and it was torn down in 1989.

[Just the facts]

Anks. Don't think I noticed it last time in S.F.

Here is the web site for it. Lots of shopping and dining.

http://www.embarcaderocenter.com/ec/

[ljbab728]

Rover - you are going to lose 9 ways from Sunday on this. That space between the buildings is called the street. Do yourself a favor and go to Google Street view around these buildings. You will find the street, sidewalk, and building - all as close together as they could get it on every side. As for terrorism protection - I don't know how much the lawn in front of Devon Tower would keep a van from crashing into the lobby. However, a one or two story retail plaza would be guaranteed to stop it.

BTW - that last photo is over 20 years old because the Embarcadaro Freeway is still there and it was torn down in 1989.

Kerry, I won't lose on that. I have stayed at the Hyatt shown in the pic besides visiting that area numerous times when my brother lived there. Please note the second pic I posted in post number 6834. That is a large plaza area between the Hyatt and the office buildings. The low rise area is mostly shops and restaurants. The Embarcadero is a great urban development but Devon does not suffer in comparison as being not urban enough.

[Just the facts]

Okay - I think we talked about the Embarcadaro Center long enough. We are just going to have to agree to disagree (unless someone wants to create an Embaracadro thread). I still give Devon 4 out 5 stars because of the large grassy area built across the street from another large grassy area. 4 of 5 on the JTF scale isn't bad.

[ZYX2]

I know we're supposed to be done with the Embarcadero Center, but looking at google maps, all of these buildings are built up to the sidewalks, with a plaza across the street.

[Just the facts]

Give it up ZYX2.

BTW - Originally the plaza was across the street but the street was closed when the freeway was taken down. Google Maps still shows the street. I think it is now a firelane and bike path. The plaza at the east end of EC was in the shadows of the old Embarcadaro Freeway off-ramps. EC was completed in 1976 and the freeway was removed in 1989. I'm not even sure if the plaza is part of the EC complex. It might be owned by the City of San Francisco (on edit - I just check the SF property assesor website and the plaza is not part of the EC complex - it is owned by the City of San Fransico and is zoned for public use. So not only was EC pushed to sidewalk, it is pushed to the very edge of a park.

[Just the facts]

Metro took a pretty cool picture of downtown today so I was looking to see where he took it from. He took it from the building in the picture below. This kind of landuse non-sense has got to stop.

[mcca7596]

What is this building called?

[Pete]

It's called the Physicians and Surgeons Building.

11 stories, 95,700 square feet.

[Just the facts]

It's called the Physicians and Surgeons Building.

11 stories, 95,700 square feet.

How many square feet of parking?

[mcca7596]

Thanks Pete, I couldn't find it on any of the standard lists I knew of to check, I guess it's not tall enough. Convert that surface parking to additional floors however... lol

[Pete]

That building sits on a total of 10 (!) acres.

Hopefully, they will build more offices in the future.

[Just the facts]

That building sits on a total of 10 (!) acres.

Hopefully, they will build more offices in the future.

LOL - so one acre of parking for every 9,000 sq feet of floor space.