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  1. #1

    Default First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    After listening to Mayor Cornett's 2011 State Of City Address, he mentioned that funds collected for the 8 projects are pay as you go, so the project will have to be funded before they would start construction, moreover he mentioned that the the new 70 central park could start construction as early as 2012, which in reality could be the first project to start, with price tag of $130M.

    The reason for my claim:

    Cornett stated they collected $65M so far (9months), which is right now an average of about $7.2M per month, without interest. Therefore, one could make the plausible claim that 24 months into sales tax collection (May 2012) receipts for the projects could total $200M? Which $130M would go to the park constuction, leaving $70M to start either the Oklahoma River Improvements ($60M) or the Senior Health Wellness and Centers ($50M)...what do you guys think?

    It seems the convention center may be last project?

  2. #2

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Walker View Post
    After listening to Mayor Cornett's 2011 State Of City Address, he mentioned that funds collected for the 8 projects are pay as you go, so the project will have to be funded before they would start construction, moreover he mentioned that the the new 70 central park could start construction as early as 2012, which in reality could be the first project to start, with price tag of $130M.

    The reason for my claim:

    Cornett stated they collected $65M so far (9months), which is right now an average of about $7.2M per month, without interest. Therefore, one could make the plausible claim that 24 months into sales tax collection (May 2012) receipts for the projects could total $200M? Which $130M would go to the park constuction, leaving $70M to start either the Oklahoma River Improvements ($60M) or the Senior Health Wellness and Centers ($50M)...what do you guys think?

    It seems the convention center may be last project?
    G. Walker..this seems kind of convoluted, what are you asking?

    The established order has been 1. Park; 2. Streetcar ...... Last. Convention Center. The middle projects have no established order yet. I assume at some point there will be multiple M3 projects under construction at once.

    Are you asking about potential changes that could be made to the order depending on certain factors? That's anyone's guess depending on how cynical they are.

  3. #3

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Walker View Post
    Cornett stated they collected $65M so far (9months), which is right now an average of about $7.2M per month, without interest. Therefore, one could make the plausible claim that 24 months into sales tax collection (May 2012) receipts for the projects could total $200M? Which $130M would go to the park constuction, leaving $70M to start either the Oklahoma River Improvements ($60M) or the Senior Health Wellness and Centers ($50M)...what do you guys think?

    It seems the convention center may be last project?
    Probably the streetcar. They could use that to start the tracks and by the time they finish a couple of miles, more will be collected to finish the rest.

  4. #4

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    I think they will do the trails pretty soon too, they are shovel ready after all

  5. #5

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Quote Originally Posted by stdennis View Post
    I think they will do the trails pretty soon too, they are shovel ready after all
    Anything that was shovel-ready should have been a stimulus project. Would have been easy to get free money for 2 years ago. From a civic standpoint.

  6. #6

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Should have been... and i think a few might have been, but im pretty sure the land is owned for the trails and their layout is pretty much set so i don't think there is much else they have to do or can do to get to a shovel-ready status unless there is a step i am missing. That is a 40 million dollar project so i think that will be on or near the top for first to be completed.

  7. #7

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    The trails and sidewalks will be one of the last priorities just because the streetcar and park will come first, mayor is more interested in those projects. The timing is more an issue of funding becoming available, which must happen before they can even break ground on these projects. So with all of the massive planning underway for streetcar, if it were moved ahead of the park, it too would be shovel-ready as funding were made available.

    With an intensely complicated web of checks and balances and various committees currently meeting right now for almost every project except for the convention center (to my knowledge), the planning for almost any of them could be finalized next month if it was needed. You don't think Jeff Bezdek or Mike Knopp could quickly wrap up everything they've diligently planned on their respective issues? The thing is nobody wants that because the longer a planning process that there is, the projects themselves stand to benefit, although at some point you just gotta break ground already.

  8. #8

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    While it would be preferable for the funding to already be in hand, apparently it is not necessary for funding to actually be in hand.
    Some land purchases, like the defunct postal center near Union Station, were made even before the current MAPs was passed. The decision to purchase the
    Goodwill property was also made early, and perhaps went through in advance of the vote (I do not recall for certain)

    Also, the open ended way the current MAPs is written, if memory serves, the city can go into debt to make any of the presumed projects happen faster if city fathers choose to do so. Perhaps Larry will come along and chime in, as he is seems as well versed, or more so, than most in that regard.

    Thus far they do seem to be proceeding in a sensible manner, and good on them for that.

  9. #9

    Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    I thought I heard the Park was suppose to be finished and opened in 2012.. Most likely the 4th quarter of 2012. Did I dream that?

  10. Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinpate View Post
    While it would be preferable for the funding to already be in hand, apparently it is not necessary for funding to actually be in hand.
    Some land purchases, like the defunct postal center near Union Station, were made even before the current MAPs was passed. The decision to purchase the
    Goodwill property was also made early, and perhaps went through in advance of the vote (I do not recall for certain)

    Also, the open ended way the current MAPs is written, if memory serves, the city can go into debt to make any of the presumed projects happen faster if city fathers choose to do so. Perhaps Larry will come along and chime in, as he is seems as well versed, or more so, than most in that regard.
    Thus far they do seem to be proceeding in a sensible manner, and good on them for that.



    Well, since you asked...LOL

    I agree, they have used it sparingly. MAPS 3 and previous incarnations, have had the authority to go into debt (usually bond money) to facilitate matters. From the MAPS 3 Ordinance:
    (7) If deemed necessary or appropriate by the City Council for cash-flow purposes, for the payment of principal and interest on and the costs of issuance of bonds, notes, lines-of-credit, or other evidences of indebtedness issued by a public trust with the City as its beneficiary for the purpose of providing a City capital improvement.
    Funding for some of the Park area property was already in hand (bond money from the 2007 GO bond). Last article I saw stated close to $6M of the $26M authorized was used. But you are correct, this was done before MAPS 3 was put to a vote. Can only presume that the City would have sold the property if MAPS 3 had failed or used it for another purpose. Since this property is part of the MAPS 3 Park, I will always take issue to any statements made by the City that imply that MAPS projects are done without incurring debt (not the only example, just one of the most recent). "(B)onds, notes, lines-of-credit, or other evidences of indebtedness" are just that, debt. What they should say is, it is primarily a pay-as-you-go or nearly debt free funding method.

    Not sure of the funding source but think more than half a million was paid to the designers of the Park for the model etc before the vote.

    Same was true for the Ford improvements, very soon after the vote passed, the City took out a $10M line of credit so they could start making improvements sooner, rather than later (when the passed tax would in effect and the money would be "in hand"). At the time, the 1 cent was still being collected for MAPS 4 Kids. Not long term bond debt, but borrowed money that has to be paid back w/interest.

    Something to keep in mind, you don't have to have the money in hand for the complete project before you can spend money and land acquisition, plans, etc. So as others have posted, we will have various MAPS 3 projects in various stages of planning, construction and completion. In other words, don't have to wait for the Park to open before the next project can be started.

  11. Default Re: First MAPS 3 Project (70 Acre Central Park)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watson410 View Post
    I thought I heard the Park was suppose to be finished and opened in 2012.. Most likely the 4th quarter of 2012. Did I dream that?
    You may be thinking of the supposed completion date/opening of the relocated I-40. Maybe construction of the Park would begin in 2012 (??), but everything I recall had the Park/Boulevard target completion date in 2014. In the case of the Boulevard, can't start constructing it until the new I-40 is open so they can remove the current Crosstown.

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