Penn Square Mall

[king183]

Glad to know this! Sounds like Dillard's it is. I have to go shopping with my wife to find a dress for our niece's wedding and something suitable for the rehearsal dinner. NOT looking forward to it. I'd just about rather be tarred & feathered. Alcohol afterwards will definitely be involved. My wife HATES shopping so it will not be pleasant.

The Dillard’s men’s department has one of the best suit/blazer/nice clothing specialists in the city. His name is Andre. I go see him every time I need a new suit or something nicer to wear. Highly recommend.

[Bill Robertson]

The Dillard’s men’s department has one of the best suit/blazer/nice clothing specialists in the city. His name is Andre. I go see him every time I need a new suit or something nicer to wear. Highly recommend.

Thanks. I have a couple suits but I have this feeling I'm going to have to shell out for a new one since the wife will be wearing all new.

[bison34]

Glad to know this! Sounds like Dillard's it is. I have to go shopping with my wife to find a dress for our niece's wedding and something suitable for the rehearsal dinner. NOT looking forward to it. I'd just about rather be tarred & feathered. Alcohol afterwards will definitely be involved. My wife HATES shopping so it will not be pleasant.

The Dillards at PSM are both top-tier. They have brands even the flagships don't have (Creed cologne, for example; a VERY expensive brand). So yeah, PSM has that going for it.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Glad to know this! Sounds like Dillard's it is. I have to go shopping with my wife to find a dress for our niece's wedding and something suitable for the rehearsal dinner. NOT looking forward to it. I'd just about rather be tarred & feathered. Alcohol afterwards will definitely be involved. My wife HATES shopping so it will not be pleasant.

Has to be a typo!

[soonermike81]

Has to be a typo!

Was thinking the same, lol. I wish my wife would hate shopping.

[Ginkasa]

Has to be a typo!

lol women amiritefellas

[David]

Try to go and time your visit when they play the pipe organ at old Wanamaker's/Macy's in center City Philadelphia.

I've been in that Macy's at the right time for a pipe organ performance, it is a neat experience.

[bison34]

What hurts my soul is that Delaware has a Nordstrom and OKC doesn't. I know, population density there, but still. There are dozens off them there within driving distance. OKC desperately needs a store like that to add credibility to our retail sector.

[Zorba]

Woodland must be doing just fine or Simon wouldn't be building a "Simon Premium Outlets" in Jenks. Regardless, the age of malls is over. Tulsa now only has Woodland where there used to be three malls at 41st and Yale alone, the recently dead Promenade, Southroads which has been converted to big box stores and the demolished Annex Mall.

With how many empty outlet malls there are around, I can't believe they are building another one.

[poe]

I've been in that Macy's at the right time for a pipe organ performance, it is a neat experience.

Same. Very cool experience. The giant eagle statue is something to see as well.

[PhiAlpha]

With how many empty outlet malls there are around, I can't believe they are building another one.

I think for the most part they’ve done pretty well in cities with one outlet mall or one dominant outlet mall. OKC’s is doing pretty well as the one in Allen several I know of in CO

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

Same. Very cool experience. The giant eagle statue is something to see as well.

I grew up in Philadelphia and have fond memories of the store when it was the entire building, meeting family at the eagle, lunch in the Crystal Tea Room, my first train came from there. I worked there in the 90's before it was sold.

[Bunty]

Promenade is in a part of Tulsa that is similar demographically to PSM/OAK in OKC - nearby high incomes neighborhoods and next to high traffic thoroughfares. Because of this location it should be redeveloped in a similar fashion to OAK. Tear down the indoor mall but keep the new ice arena and the parking garage but build out the rest with apartments with retail.

Promenade Mall was Tulsa's answer to OKC's Penn Square until 2005 when Mervyn's closed and then things slowly went downhill but accelerated in recent years.

[Celebrator]

Try to go and time your visit when they play the pipe organ at old Wanamaker's/Macy's in center City Philadelphia.

I second (or third) this! Took a spur of the moment long weekend to Phila. in the mid 2000s when I lived in FL and had an airline credit to use or lose and had a great time. The highlight of the weekend for me was going to a concert to hear that massive organ in that architecturally incredible space. You know President Taft spoke at its opening! Here is a link to a clip of video showcasing the sound of that organ I put on YouTube from that trip 18 years ago https://youtu.be/azZZUA9OGkQ?si=EubzkSndFcJ7ZNKk

[Bill Robertson]

Has to be a typo!

Thank goodness it's not a typo. She just doesn't shop. Not even online. Grocery stores are the only place. Then she wants to go down every isle "in case".

[BoulderSooner]

I think failure to put a quality hotel and some residential on PSM property along with some other living sections would be pretty dangerous ground for the mall in the long run.

Ultimately, Between Oak and retrofitting PSM + Belle Isle parking lots, and maybe even redeveloping the office park around Pearl's, I think you could pretty easily add 1,500+ living units, plus hotel rooms. That gives the area a strong base of consumers who can support the massive hub of retail.

removing all of the parking would kill PSM period ..

[BoulderSooner]

Woodland must be doing just fine or Simon wouldn't be building a "Simon Premium Outlets" in Jenks.

those things have NOTHING to do with eachother

[CitySooner]

I think failure to put a quality hotel and some residential on PSM property along with some other living sections would be pretty dangerous ground for the mall in the long run.

Ultimately, Between Oak and retrofitting PSM + Belle Isle parking lots, and maybe even redeveloping the office park around Pearl's, I think you could pretty easily add 1,500+ living units, plus hotel rooms. That gives the area a strong base of consumers who can support the massive hub of retail.

Just to add a bit more color here - based on how that office park is set up, I seriously doubt that could actually happen. It is split up into a bunch of different owners, and beyond that, those buildings stay pretty full.

[Rover]

Just to add a bit more color here - based on how that office park is set up, I seriously doubt that could actually happen. It is split up into a bunch of different owners, and beyond that, those buildings stay pretty full.

Full and pretty expensive.

[CitySooner]

Full and pretty expensive.

Truth.

[Shortsyeararound]

Promenade Mall was Tulsa's answer to OKC's Penn Square until 2005 when Mervyn's closed and then things slowly went downhill but accelerated in recent years.

I disagree with this. Woodland Hills has always had store locations first then if they opened a second, it would open at Promenade. That may have been the original intention but it never came to fruition.

[scottk]

I disagree with this. Woodland Hills has always had store locations first then if they opened a second, it would open at Promenade. That may have been the original intention but it never came to fruition.

Both statements are true.

Promenade and Penn Square were originally both outdoor shopping malls and in more established parts of town. In 1986, Promenade was re-built as an indoor mall and 1982 Penn Square was enclosed. Both in response to the indoor shopping mall boom of the 70's and 80's.

Geographically and demographically Woodland Hills and Quail Springs have a lot in common. Both were built within about 5 years of each other, Woodland Hills in 1976 and Quail Springs Mall in 1980. Both were built as multi-story indoor racetrack malls with four anchors. Both were built essentially in the "middle of nowhere" as Quail Springs was in far northwest OKC when there was very little on Memorial Road, and Woodland Hills Mall was far south Tulsa at the time with very little built east of it. With the Kilpatrick Turnpike for QSM and the expansion of HWY 169 for Woodland Hills, both malls became much more accessible to the entire city. The areas around Quail Springs Mall and Woodland Hills mall are nearly identical with big box centers and casual/fast dining locations.

However, the tenant mix of Woodland Hills and Penn Square are very similar. As it has been stated Quail Springs is not in the shape Promenade is/was before closing in September 2023, but doesn't hold the same tier of retail as PSM and Woodland Hills. I think a lot of this is based upon mall management. Simon Property Group owns both Woodland Hills and Penn Square and have managed both malls to keep their higher tier retail demand.

Most towns the size of OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, etc seem to be able to hold on to one traditional indoor shopping mall, while the other malls built either close or re-invent themselves into lifestyle centers, office space, community centers, etc.

[PhiAlpha]

Both statements are true.

Promenade and Penn Square were originally both outdoor shopping malls and in more established parts of town. In 1986, Promenade was re-built as an indoor mall and 1982 Penn Square was enclosed. Both in response to the indoor shopping mall boom of the 70's and 80's.

Geographically and demographically Woodland Hills and Quail Springs have a lot in common. Both were built within about 5 years of each other, Woodland Hills in 1976 and Quail Springs Mall in 1980. Both were built as multi-story indoor racetrack malls with four anchors. Both were built essentially in the "middle of nowhere" as Quail Springs was in far northwest OKC when there was very little on Memorial Road, and Woodland Hills Mall was far south Tulsa at the time with very little built east of it. With the Kilpatrick Turnpike for QSM and the expansion of HWY 169 for Woodland Hills, both malls became much more accessible to the entire city. The areas around Quail Springs Mall and Woodland Hills mall are nearly identical with big box centers and casual/fast dining locations.

However, the tenant mix of Woodland Hills and Penn Square are very similar. As it has been stated Quail Springs is not in the shape Promenade is/was before closing in September 2023, but doesn't hold the same tier of retail as PSM and Woodland Hills. I think a lot of this is based upon mall management. Simon Property Group owns both Woodland Hills and Penn Square and have managed both malls to keep their higher tier retail demand.

Most towns the size of OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, etc seem to be able to hold on to one traditional indoor shopping mall, while the other malls built either close or re-invent themselves into lifestyle centers, office space, community centers, etc.

Great post! Didn't realize The Promenade was also an outdoor mall at one time.

[Swake]

Both statements are true.

Promenade and Penn Square were originally both outdoor shopping malls and in more established parts of town. In 1986, Promenade was re-built as an indoor mall and 1982 Penn Square was enclosed. Both in response to the indoor shopping mall boom of the 70's and 80's.

Geographically and demographically Woodland Hills and Quail Springs have a lot in common. Both were built within about 5 years of each other, Woodland Hills in 1976 and Quail Springs Mall in 1980. Both were built as multi-story indoor racetrack malls with four anchors. Both were built essentially in the "middle of nowhere" as Quail Springs was in far northwest OKC when there was very little on Memorial Road, and Woodland Hills Mall was far south Tulsa at the time with very little built east of it. With the Kilpatrick Turnpike for QSM and the expansion of HWY 169 for Woodland Hills, both malls became much more accessible to the entire city. The areas around Quail Springs Mall and Woodland Hills mall are nearly identical with big box centers and casual/fast dining locations.

However, the tenant mix of Woodland Hills and Penn Square are very similar. As it has been stated Quail Springs is not in the shape Promenade is/was before closing in September 2023, but doesn't hold the same tier of retail as PSM and Woodland Hills. I think a lot of this is based upon mall management. Simon Property Group owns both Woodland Hills and Penn Square and have managed both malls to keep their higher tier retail demand.

Most towns the size of OKC, Tulsa, Wichita, etc seem to be able to hold on to one traditional indoor shopping mall, while the other malls built either close or re-invent themselves into lifestyle centers, office space, community centers, etc.

Promenade/Southland was never a higher end mall like Penn Square. The center opened in 1965 as the Southland outdoor shopping center and was enclosed in 1986 to better compete with Southroads Mall across the street and the much larger Woodland Hills Mall, which opened in 1976. Southroads opened in 1967 as Tulsa's first enclosed mall and got the higher end stores over Promenade. Even when Southroads closed in 1997, converting to the current Big Box center, and Foleys/Macys and some other stores moved across to Promenade, Utica Square was still just three miles away and by then Woodland was the dominant regional mall. I'm not sure that Promenade was ever completely filled, even right after Southroads closed.

Penn Square wasn't always upscale at all either. 50 Penn Place was the upscale mall, though very small, but when 50 Penn emptied, Penn Square had no Utica Square to compete for stores.

Tulsa had two other "upscale" malls. The Kensington Galleria opened in 1984 but didn't last 10 years and is now an office complex. The Williams Center Forum downtown was a little more successful, opening in 1978 but was converted to office space in 1995.

[bchris02]

The Dillards at PSM are both top-tier. They have brands even the flagships don't have (Creed cologne, for example; a VERY expensive brand). So yeah, PSM has that going for it.

Dillard's has weathered the downturn for department stores better than most. I think fewer stores and dedication to the stores they have has helped. Macy's is a house of cards waiting to collapse. Has the one at PSM been remodeled since it was a Foley's?