I-235 / I-44 Interchange

[OkiePoke]

I drove by around 8:30 am Saturday and saw they were trying to recover the car. They were on the South bank of the creek. Couldn't really see much tbh.

We would need some recent pictures as they probably change the barriers frequently enough for construction access as progress is made.

[jn1780]

I read another news report that she was driving at a high rate of speed and crash into a barrier and went up and over it.

[OKC Guy]

I read another news report that she was driving at a high rate of speed and crash into a barrier and went up and over it.

Thanks that would make more sense. I do know drivers going north seem to speed bad between 36th and the site. You also have that far left lane merge and I swear some do 80-90 to pass as many cars as possible before their lane ends and merges right. It also merges at the bend so I could envision a car approaching the site way too fast and hitting barriers and going over.

[Of Sound Mind]

i swear some do 80-90 to pass as many cars as possible before their lane ends and merges right.

guilty!

[gopokes88]

guilty!

Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.

[catch22]

Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.

This post really warms my heart

There is a merge zone on my commute to Denver going from 3 lanes to 2. It is marked for nearly a mile and a half that the lane ends. People will literally drive in that lane until it turns into the emergency lane, and proceed in the emergency lane until someone lets them in. All this at 65-70 mph. I want to carry a pair of spike strips in my car that i can toss out my window when I see someone attempting this.

[Pete]

When I moved here from California, I couldn't believe how early most people merged (which is a good thing).

Out there, everyone stayed in any lane until the very last split-second.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ early merging is inefficient and slows down traffic. Zipper merging is the best method using up all capacity.

[Pete]

^^^ early merging is inefficient and slows down traffic. Zipper merging is the best method using up all capacity.

I'm talking about the people who blast up to the very end of a lane, then cut people off.

[jn1780]

I'm talking about the people who blast up to the very end of a lane, then cut people off.

Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.

[gopokes88]

Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.

Need to clarify, the guy that hit my client merged a few hundred yards after this sign. Which is why he's going through hell.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah, those people are not thinking about Zipper Merging. If people were efficient machines I would argue Zipper Merging is more efficient, their not though. Maybe there needs to be merge zones instead of a "State Law Merge Left/Right" sign. You have a start and end, where you must begin Zippering in.

There is a wealth of data to back this up: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/1748026001

[Anonymous.]

Just one more sign needed.

[OKC Guy]

Zipper merging is not the problem.

To have a functioning merging area the speeds must be close to 60. I see the merge on 235 south just south of Hefner and it works fine because at that point traffic is flowing normally. If someone wants to go 65-70 and stay in left lane and then merge before it ends it works fine because there is proper spacing.

In the 235 north between 36th and work zone traffic is congested and backed up. Its only going between 5-20 mph. There is no room to merge yet some feel like going 60 or more next to 5-20 and then jack on brakes to find a hole. Thats dangerous and selfish. Even if they find a hole it then forces car/s behind to brake and a rubber band effect. If they get in line earlier then traffic would actually flow faster as no one is hitting brakes making room.

I think its important to distinguish the differences.

I can safely say I am undefeated in allowing cars to butt in line (merge) when traffic is backed up. Zero cars have got in ahead of my car. On the other hand when traffic is not backed up I have always let in someone merging its easy to let off gas just a tad and yet not really slow down much.

That to me is the difference.

When I lived in Cali it was every man for himself mostly. One thing I loved, if a car was merging from an on ramp they were “at speed” or else were not getting on. Here I see so many trying to merge on at 35-45 into 60-65. Its dangerous and those drivers have no business being on highway. If you are too scared to get up to merging speed take the side roads please!

[jn1780]

^ Thats a good point. You have to distinguish the difference. The article Panda mention i'm sure is referring to more normal circumstances. These drivers in the construction zone are clearly just trying to gain an advantage over congested traffic.

[Anonymous.]

Zipper merging is not the problem.

To have a functioning merging area the speeds must be close to 60. I see the merge on 235 south just south of Hefner and it works fine because at that point traffic is flowing normally. If someone wants to go 65-70 and stay in left lane and then merge before it ends it works fine because there is proper spacing.

In the 235 north between 36th and work zone traffic is congested and backed up. Its only going between 5-20 mph. There is no room to merge yet some feel like going 60 or more next to 5-20 and then jack on brakes to find a hole. Thats dangerous and selfish. Even if they find a hole it then forces car/s behind to brake and a rubber band effect. If they get in line earlier then traffic would actually flow faster as no one is hitting brakes making room.

I think its important to distinguish the differences.

I can safely say I am undefeated in allowing cars to butt in line (merge) when traffic is backed up. Zero cars have got in ahead of my car. On the other hand when traffic is not backed up I have always let in someone merging its easy to let off gas just a tad and yet not really slow down much.se!

That isn't what using all lanes is. Using all lanes means all 3 of the lanes after 36th would be fully stacked with vehicles moving the same speed. Then the middle lane lets people to the left of them zipper in. This is proper usage of merge efficiency. You blocking cars from coming in ahead of you is actually causing more issues.

[OKC Guy]

That isn't what using all lanes is. Using all lanes means all 3 of the lanes after 36th would be fully stacked with vehicles moving the same speed. Then the middle lane lets people to the left of them zipper in. This is proper usage of merge efficiency. You blocking cars from coming in ahead of you is actually causing more issues.

Nope

Traffic in both “thru” lanes is stacked up back to 36th or even 23rd. Dangerous drivers go 60 in far left lane knowing there is no room to merge. They are the dangerous ones and my record will stay undefeated in this scenario.

Again, if flowing normally its fine to use left lane and pass/merge. But traffic is almost standstill or crawling and idiots have to dangerously speed and push there way in because they might save 30 seconds or god forbid a whole minute by being dangerous. I hope its you that my SUV did not allow in. At least I smile at them when I shake my head “nope, you’re not cramming in ahead of me”. The best part is they have to force in somewhere behind and then right after the zone they speed way up past speed limit in a “I’ll show you” display of manhood. But I love it then because they flush out the cops hiding ahead and I wave as they are getting a ticket! They showed me lol.

[Anonymous.]

I understand what you area saying. I am just saying that actual efficiency for the traffic jam is for all of the lanes to be filled as far up as possible, and all merge points allowing a zipper. The reason there is people going 60mph next to you is because they are filling the lane that should have been filled from the start of the jam. If all lanes were filling up equally, this would remove the danger factor of people going 60mph next to still cars.

So the people who think they are doing the right thing (like you), by stacking up in the right two lanes, are actually doing the wrong thing in the first place.

[Of Sound Mind]

Careful doing that. You may try to cut off the one guy who won't move. Then you have to pick between driving into a barrier or the guy.

You'll choose the guy.
Who will then sue the daylight out of you, probably max out your insurance policy, and nearly send you into bankruptcy.
The problem for you will become he might carry high limits. His insurance will kick in and pay it. Then a Fortune 500 company is on you looking to recover their cash.


Source: One of my clients exact situations. It's not pretty.

Hasn't been an issue for the last several months... in this stretch, it will be a long time before that choice has to be made and by that time I typically will have merged in front of a further up vehicle if "that guy" doesn't want to let others merge LEGALLY.

[OKC Guy]

I understand what you area saying. I am just saying that actual efficiency for the traffic jam is for all of the lanes to be filled as far up as possible, and all merge points allowing a zipper. The reason there is people going 60mph next to you is because they are filling the lane that should have been filled from the start of the jam. If all lanes were filling up equally, this would remove the danger factor of people going 60mph next to still cars.

So the people who think they are doing the right thing (like you), by stacking up in the right two lanes, are actually doing the wrong thing in the first place.

Lol at wrong thing

I am legally in the flowing traffic lane. Then dangerous impatient speeders try and cut on line. And they are right and I am wrong? You have it backwards.

Listen, its the idiots who decide “not” to get in line who create the problems. If a car innocently was trying to merge correctly and just happened to be in the merge lane but is not going 60 and is making an honest effort to merge then I let them kn.

Again, its those who speed to the front of line for 1-2 miles and have zero intentions of making a smart/safe merge earlier when they can who I am talking about. Lets not twist this around you and everyone knows who they are. There are some who are above all law and courtesies who think they can just butt in line its those who I speak of and you and everyone knows it.

Some like to argue to argue. But I will never let dangerous idiots in who are speeding to jump the line. Nope.

[Snowman]

I drove by around 8:30 am Saturday and saw they were trying to recover the car. They were on the South bank of the creek. Couldn't really see much tbh.

We would need some recent pictures as they probably change the barriers frequently enough for construction access as progress is made.

While the barriers have changed a few times over the course of years, they do not change that often.

[zefferoni]

Lol at wrong thing

I am legally in the flowing traffic lane. Then dangerous impatient speeders try and cut on line. And they are right and I am wrong? You have it backwards.

Listen, its the idiots who decide “not” to get in line who create the problems. If a car innocently was trying to merge correctly and just happened to be in the merge lane but is not going 60 and is making an honest effort to merge then I let them kn.

Again, its those who speed to the front of line for 1-2 miles and have zero intentions of making a smart/safe merge earlier when they can who I am talking about. Lets not twist this around you and everyone knows who they are. There are some who are above all law and courtesies who think they can just butt in line its those who I speak of and you and everyone knows it.

Some like to argue to argue. But I will never let dangerous idiots in who are speeding to jump the line. Nope.

Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traff...pper-merge.htm

[OKC Guy]

Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traff...pper-merge.htm

If the 2 thru lanes were full - meaning no room in the back - yes. But there is room at back of line these are just dangerous drivers speeding to save 30 seconds to 1 minute.

I will remain undefeated allowing “jumpers” to get in front of me.

Once this project is done the city is gonna make bank on speeders due to ability to hide around the curves. It will be like a toll road lol.

[Of Sound Mind]

I will remain undefeated allowing “jumpers” to get in front of me.

Challenge accepted

[Anonymous.]

Ideally there would be no speeding because the lane would be full all the way to the merge point. I used to be on the same page as you, but realized I was wrong - there's no 'jumping the line' unless they're crossing the white line at the merge point.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traff...pper-merge.htm

OKC Guy doesn't want to learn that he is wrong. This is all we need to know about why most traffic jams are inefficient, people are inherently prideful and this will always lead to issues on roads.