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Thread: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

  1. #2126

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    There will be a hard divider between the exit/merge areas and through traffic and it will cover a long distance.

    Effectively, through traffic will have its own bridge.
    I guess(hope) that section will be open by February.

  2. #2127

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    I hope they take the time and effort to beautify this intersection. Seems now would be the time to plant trees, install plantings, landscaping etc.

  3. #2128

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Lol

  4. #2129

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    I’m sure you’re right, knowing Oklahoma, that my comment deserves an LOL, but it’s just so sad to me that they can spend $100 million dollars (more?) on a highway project and in six months there will just be bare grass in the cloverleafs, probably rutted out with red dirt tracks, whereas most other places in the country would at least try to have some kind of beautification. In newer projects in Missouri like this there are stone and brick terraces with manicured trees and shrubbery.

  5. #2130

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    I suspect ODOT sees trees as fixed hazardous objects in their clear zone, and plantings seem like would need a very stable organization willing to maintain that in perpetuity

  6. #2131

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    You’re probably right. If you use a term like “clear zone” you know more about the issue than I do. I just don’t understand how most other places I visit in this country seem to figure things like this out. Oh well.

  7. #2132

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Why has xeriscaping not been considered in any of these projects? Super low maintenance and much better to look at than dead grass in the winter and 2 foot tall weeds in the spring.

    Plus the use of rocks and native tall grasses can be incredibly beautiful with almost no maintenance required. Much less man hours per year than mowing the weed/grass every week in the spring, anyway.

  8. #2133
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    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Why has xeriscaping not been considered in any of these projects? Super low maintenance and much better to look at than dead grass in the winter and 2 foot tall weeds in the spring.

    Plus the use of rocks and native tall grasses can be incredibly beautiful with almost no maintenance required. Much less man hours per year than mowing the weed/grass every week in the spring, anyway.
    Good question. It seems like landscape maintenance and aesthetics is rarely considered in the build out.

  9. #2134

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Good question. It seems like landscape maintenance and aesthetics is rarely considered in the build out.
    That, and the large areas of open rights of way ODOT loves to purchase and put grass down, they like to let it get full of weeds and nasty crap and look third-world with 2 foot tall weeds, etc. You'd think they'd at least tighten up their footprints around their highways and interchanges and reduce the amount of opens space they have to even maintain.

  10. #2135

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Took these today (Sunday):














  11. #2136

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Just a few more weeks!

  12. #2137

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Weather looks relatively warm and completely dry for the next 10 days, so they should be able to make good progress.

  13. #2138

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Iíve not posted here in forever but have read the last tons of pages. I canít believe all the complaints I read.

    Having driven this since the very first phase over 10 years ago I can say this last phase was the very best managed by construction crews. They kept speed at least 45 throughout the project and very few accidents compared to prior ones.

    Previous phases had 35 mph speed limits which backed traffic up and created more hazards. This time with the higher limit it seemed to flow so much better.

    The problem I mentioned pages ago is once done the throttle is removed and its going to rush traffic up to turnpike faster. There you have the same 235/44 bridge type problem with good chunk of traffic wanting to go turnpike west needing to compete in far right lane with merging 235n on traffic. The only good solution is to make the turnpike west ramp start in the left 235n lane and drop you in the left turnpike west lane. With toll plaza gone they could move lames north to make room for this. Or same thing except go over both turnpike lames and drop you in right lanes where plaza was.

    Anyways, great job to the construction crew for this major phase, they kept 2 lanes open each way and kept speeds high enough to keep flow going. Well done to them!!! The prior phase was a big mess yet less complicated too. Not sure if same crew or not but a noticeable difference.

    Thanks Pete for all your pics. Although not posting for a few years I did mange to read this thread occasionally.

  14. #2139

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    ^^^ Most left lane exit/entrance are dangerous... but this may be one that is an exception. They won't do this though.

    Likely - The way to prevent backs is to turn the Broadway Ext N/S to West Turnpike merge into 2 lane, they should have some space do to the toll booth closing.

    Unlikely - Then limit/remove access from 122nd to North Broadway Ext (no cheap option to keep this access & prevent traffic from backing up)

  15. #2140

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    I agree OTA should rework that NB BWX to WB JKT movement. The current bridge over the railroad poses possible issues. They really should allow two lanes instead of a merge here and they do have the room to finagle that in there, however I still think with the bridge there still will be a slow down. I actually think one of the issues there isn't just the merge there, but also the curve onto the JKT over the railroad bridge. There is no tilt in the grade on that curve causing a natural slow-down. I mean, you take that turn at any speed over 20 you throw everything around in your car and burn off a half inch of your tire tread. Add a second lane there on that curve and I think, with Oklahoma drivers, you get trouble. Realistically it'd be great for them to expand that bridge and rework the grade there to complete the highway movement. OTA has that really wide loop bridge (much like ODOT has done at I44/BWX) and they do that do help keep traffic at or close to highway speeds through interchanges. So OTA has this up here but then completely ruins it with that merge.

    Another problem is that ODOT and OTA really don't work very well together, and in my opinion I think it's OTA with the problem. Just look at how some of these turnpikes they build have such awful "dump-offs" to other highways, interstates, or city streets. OTA could have mitigated the JKT/Memorial road congestion by having better exits and onramps like those in larger cities. Anyone you ask up there about that and they view that as a "city" problem, being that of the city of OKC. Your comment about turnpike traffic getting backed up on NB BWX there at the JKT, I mean, who hasn't sat in that fat mess just simply trying to drive by it going up into Edmond? It's terrible. But you ask OTA about that and they refer you to ODOT because it's their problem. Same problems with some of the turnpikes in the Tulsa area. This same issue was awful there at I-40 and JKT, but finally was mitigated with a full ODOT widening of the interstate there and a lot of money. But even still (after having driven the facility yesterday going to/from Yukon/Edmond for gymnastics) even there the merging from SB JKT to WB I-40 is terrible.

    IDK, OTA just doesn't play well with others in the sandbox. I thought this over 20 years ago when I briefly worked for the state out of college and I still believe it to be true today.

    But, back to your original point -- I think you are absolutely right. ODOT has done a fantastic job here and the backups that used to take place here will just move up to JKT/BWX!

    Sorry for the Monday morning rant there.

  16. #2141

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by OkiePoke View Post
    Unlikely - Then limit/remove access from 122nd to North Broadway Ext (no cheap option to keep this access & prevent traffic from backing up)
    Closing access to NB Broadway Extension needs to happen. Drivers can easily get on at Hefner or Memorial instead.

    This situation of on ramps so close to major interchanges is infuriating. The situation is particularly awful at the I40/I44 interchange with EB drivers entering at Portland to go NB on I44 and WB drivers entering from Agnew/May to make it all the way over to SB I44.

  17. #2142

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by HangryHippo View Post
    Closing access to NB Broadway Extension needs to happen. Drivers can easily get on at Hefner or Memorial instead.

    This situation of on ramps so close to major interchanges is infuriating. The situation is particularly awful at the I40/I44 interchange with EB drivers entering at Portland to go NB on I44 and WB drivers entering from Agnew/May to make it all the way over to SB I44.
    You can't get on at Portland to go eastbound. You can at Meridian though.

  18. #2143

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    You can't get on at Portland to go eastbound. You can at Meridian though.
    My apologies - yep. But between that and people moving over to exit at Portland or move over to SB I44 and those racing to get to the far left lane before they're up to speed, lots of good accidents.

  19. #2144

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by MagzOK View Post
    I agree OTA should rework that NB BWX to WB JKT movement. The current bridge over the railroad poses possible issues. They really should allow two lanes instead of a merge here and they do have the room to finagle that in there, however I still think with the bridge there still will be a slow down. I actually think one of the issues there isn't just the merge there, but also the curve onto the JKT over the railroad bridge. There is no tilt in the grade on that curve causing a natural slow-down. I mean, you take that turn at any speed over 20 you throw everything around in your car and burn off a half inch of your tire tread. Add a second lane there on that curve and I think, with Oklahoma drivers, you get trouble. Realistically it'd be great for them to expand that bridge and rework the grade there to complete the highway movement. OTA has that really wide loop bridge (much like ODOT has done at I44/BWX) and they do that do help keep traffic at or close to highway speeds through interchanges. So OTA has this up here but then completely ruins it with that merge.

    Another problem is that ODOT and OTA really don't work very well together, and in my opinion I think it's OTA with the problem. Just look at how some of these turnpikes they build have such awful "dump-offs" to other highways, interstates, or city streets. OTA could have mitigated the JKT/Memorial road congestion by having better exits and onramps like those in larger cities. Anyone you ask up there about that and they view that as a "city" problem, being that of the city of OKC. Your comment about turnpike traffic getting backed up on NB BWX there at the JKT, I mean, who hasn't sat in that fat mess just simply trying to drive by it going up into Edmond? It's terrible. But you ask OTA about that and they refer you to ODOT because it's their problem. Same problems with some of the turnpikes in the Tulsa area. This same issue was awful there at I-40 and JKT, but finally was mitigated with a full ODOT widening of the interstate there and a lot of money. But even still (after having driven the facility yesterday going to/from Yukon/Edmond for gymnastics) even there the merging from SB JKT to WB I-40 is terrible.

    IDK, OTA just doesn't play well with others in the sandbox. I thought this over 20 years ago when I briefly worked for the state out of college and I still believe it to be true today.

    But, back to your original point -- I think you are absolutely right. ODOT has done a fantastic job here and the backups that used to take place here will just move up to JKT/BWX!

    Sorry for the Monday morning rant there.
    Really the game should be find a highway to highway interchange in Oklahoma that DOESN'T need to be redesigned. lol

  20. #2145

    Default Re: I-235 / I-44 Interchange

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC Guy View Post
    I’ve not posted here in forever but have read the last tons of pages. I can’t believe all the complaints I read.

    Having driven this since the very first phase over 10 years ago I can say this last phase was the very best managed by construction crews. They kept speed at least 45 throughout the project and very few accidents compared to prior ones.
    What complaint specifically "can you not believe you read?" So far all the complaints are perfectly valid. I don't think anyone is blaming the construction crews. They've done great and worked fast. It isn't their fault it has taken so long, it's ODOT, or arguably the state. But ODOT's requirement is to keep access to not cause minor inconveniences to people that could be avoid by simply taking a detour route. Just because there was luck afoot doesn't mean there isn't criticism to dish out given you don't see setups like that in many states.

    Still, I would say the fact that there weren't any wrecks kind of dampers the notion OKC drivers are horrible.

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