Edge @ Midtown

[Rover]

Yeah no kidding. Wiggin has a good track record, but he needs to just walk away from the Mercy hospital site. I get it that he's invested about $200,000 in plans that he's going to lose, but at least he's not going to be taken to the cleaners like his plan for Overholser Green would have done to him.

I am not so sure he wouldn't have had some success with OG. The nice part was it included flats. For us empty-nesters the barriers to the current downtown higher priced units is that they are all multiple levels with lots of stairs or elevators. I personally wouldn't buy a multi-level small home in Maywood but would seriously consider a nice single level secure development in mid-town.

[Spartan]

Well there probably is a market for very upscale condo units, but it takes months to sell the units and not every project at once can be upscale condo. I'm not saying it can't work, though. But notice how well a diverse range of apartment units have sold out immediately once they were available. You have upscale apartments like the Classen, Legacy, Montgomery and more moderate range apartments like Deep Deuce, Park Harvey, Sycamore, etc..all of which are very well-leased. I heard the concerns with Park Harvey were unsubstantiated, but hopefully they'll be able to figure out the parking eventually and get back up to near full occupancy.

It's just obvious that apartments are the way to go, not condos, if you want to have a successful development that goes exactly as planned, or better. I do think Wiggin would have sold half his condo units and then probably not another. Look at Grant Humphreys, who is having trouble selling the rest of the units in Block 42, which was a much cooler project than OG. It's completely derailed his other development plans.

[blangtang]

okay, what is going on with the U-shaped building on the corner by Plaza Court?

[Spartan]

The Osler? Nothing. It will be renovated residential apartments by Midtown Redevelopment eventually, but it's in succession after 1212. 1212 will start once Hadden is finished, possibly Jan or Feb. I don't think they'll even start on The Osler until 2012.

[betts]

I think the Maywood Lofts are doing relatively well. They've got another 5 units closing this month, I've heard, and all the commercial space has sold. We've got one townhouse recently sold in Maywood Park, with a couple others supposedly in the works soon. I believe a couple of the bigger, pricier units in Block 42 sold recently. I expect that all the rest of the development in Maywood Park will help existing sales, especially if the real estate market heats up a bit.

[Spartan]

The Maywood Lofts will be a home-run, and I think those are going to attract a lot of buyers who are going to be extremely grateful for where they get to call home. Quality housing well under $200,000 is going to have wide market appeal. It will be very interesting to see that sidewalk interact with those businesses, given the vertical separation. It's weird to see those storefronts on a separated level from the sidewalk, so I wonder what kind of stuff will go in there.

[metro]

Betts, have heard a timeline for when the commercial space will start to be occupied?

Spartan, what do you mean will-be successful, they've been one of the slowest moving DT projects and have been done over a year. What data are you basing your claim of success on? Opinion? Just curious.

[Architect2010]

And also Betts, what types of businesses do you think we might see in those spaces?

[Spartan]

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

[okclee]

I don't know why Wiggin and Tanenbaum both can't build their projects.

Yes, only one can build on the Mercy location, but there is a plethora of available land very near to this location.

[soonerguru]

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

At the expense of sounding petty, watching that video doesn't imbue one with a sense of excitement -- or much enthusiasm in Bradshaw. I realize he's just a "soft spoken" guy, but he really ought to consider hiring a pitch man for his project.

[metro]

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

Sounds like I'm basing it off the same thing as you, gut feeling and no hard data. I can say I was in charge of the Downtown Living Tour 2 years ago for Urban Neighbors and worked in partner with Kim Searls of DOKC (there at that time). Our volunteer HQ base for the DT Tour was based out of the Lofts. I've also had several meetings in their clubhouse. So, I don't have any hard numbers, but I DO HAVE some first hand experience with the project. What Bradshaw doesn't say in Lackmeyer's video is if "sold" means deposit or closed at a title company. I do know that they had to have "x" number of deposits, and I know some people who had those deposits, and many of them pulled out and lost their deposit. As soonerguru was saying, watching Bradshaw in the video doesn't leave me with feeling confident about the project. Have you been in there? It is gives a since of emptiness to the point where it is almost eery. I hope it fillls soon, as I feel it is a good project, slightly overpriced, but great location and future area potential. I wouldn't mind living there myself if I could convince my wife it is a good place to raise a child. haha

[betts]

I believe Maywood Lofts still have some closings this year. I don't know about 40, but I would guess they're at or close to 35 sold. I haven't ever heard them count deposits since the building was opened up for occupancy.

[mcca7596]

Has OCURA taken new bids for this site yet? Any idea as to when a decision will be made if they have?

[Reno and Walker]

Spartan, watch what you say about Grant. Why do you go after someone who is smarter and richer then you.

[Spartan]

Huh?? The hell??

If you're referring to Grant Humphreys, you're sorely mistaken about me "going after" someone, and anything I might say is actually going really easy on his situation compared to what others have said.

[TStheThird]

I too was confused on how you were "going after" Humphreys.

[okclee]

Uh, me too!
Not sure what is going on here with "who is going after who?".

But to move this along. With all of the momentum ongoing in Deep Deuce. When will we see a significant project for Midtown?

I definitely thought by now we would have an announcement for a Major Midtown development project. Mercy site is Prime for a this type of development, a multi-purpose, residential, commercial development, something around 8 to 10 stories tall.

[dankrutka]

How about just developing the building across from Stella on Walker. I know it's a Midtown Renaissance project, but that thing would rent out, and maybe sell out, immediately. Why do they move so slowly?

[Spartan]

I think they're so leveraged that they have to finish one project before they can move on to the next, right now it's Hadden and Packard..at least Hadden for sure has to be finished and move-in ready before they can start 1212.

[MIKELS129]

Uh, me too!
Not sure what is going on here with "who is going after who?".

But to move this along. With all of the momentum ongoing in Deep Deuce. When will we see a significant project for Midtown?

I definitely thought by now we would have an announcement for a Major Midtown development project. Mercy site is Prime for a this type of development, a multi-purpose, residential, commercial development, something around 8 to 10 stories tall.

anything over 3 to 4 stories is not allowed for that site

[mcca7596]

I think they're so leveraged that they have to finish one project before they can move on to the next, right now it's Hadden and Packard..at least Hadden for sure has to be finished and move-in ready before they can start 1212.

On Midtown Renaissance's website, it says Hadden Hall is now leasing and provides a pdf of the floor plan that shows 6 units.

Again, does anyone know if the Mercy site itself has taken new bids?

[onthestrip]

anything over 3 to 4 stories is not allowed for that site

3 to stories is plenty. I just dont want some stick built, low quality complex there. Deep Duece certainly has got a lot of attention lately with several housing projects announced but Midtown is where I would want to live. It has the best potential to be a live work play, urban neighborhood. It has better retail oppurtunities than Deep Duece.

[betts]

3 to stories is plenty. I just dont want some stick built, low quality complex there. Deep Duece certainly has got a lot of attention lately with several housing projects announced but Midtown is where I would want to live. It has the best potential to be a live work play, urban neighborhood. It has better retail oppurtunities than Deep Duece.

You've just stated a perfect example of why we should be very careful about destroying our older buildings. You can't build character; it has to develop.

[dankrutka]

On Midtown Renaissance's website, it says Hadden Hall is now leasing and provides a pdf of the floor plan that shows 6 units.

Again, does anyone know if the Mercy site itself has taken new bids?

Are there already tenants on the top floor while they finish the bottom? I've seen cars parked there at night recently, but they are clearly still working on the site.